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I guess the white one is so cool
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, well maybe big companies like razer, logitech, etc. can look at this and get some ideas and please pc gamers
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Discussion Starter #10
Big companies understand the market far better than you'd think
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

Look at that hot, 1978, Voyager probe PCB:
Single layer FR2.

Modern example in alternative brands.... CMstorm Quickfire keyboards, Logitech G400/G100.. etc
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Big companies understand the market far better than you'd think
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Roger that
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i guess if they made the "perfect" mouse...sales would drop and companies would suffer, meanwhile they launch some mice to keep up sales... (this is one of my point of views on this subject
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)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It's more along the lines of staying competitive and understanding your market.

I hate to say it, but ambidextrous or symmetric designs have been harder to push in retail, granted there has been a shift in recent years.

The global G100s is somewhat a risky move regardless of hardware components used. This is a mouse thats prominent in specific asian regions.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

I hate to say it, but ambidextrous or symmetric designs have been harder to push in retail, granted there has been a shift in recent years.
Unless you can show me concrete and precise datas, i don't believe that for one second. Steelseries becoming a major player in the last few years based solely on ambidextrous designs is the opposite of what you're implying. And the other companies, releasing symmetric shaped mice recently, are aware of the situation. Of course 6-7 years ago i bought the MX518 just because there were no decent ambidextrous mice available. How can you choose something that doesn't exist? And even if the targeted market is smaller you still can't afford to ignore it, unless you wanna end up like Logitech going from no.1 to wherever they are now. G100s is not a risky move because of its shape, but you cant release a mouse with no side buttons in the year 2013. The mediocre sensor doesn't help either.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaingosu View Post

Unless you can show me concrete and precise datas, i don't believe that for one second. Steelseries becoming a major player in the last few years based solely on ambidextrous designs is the opposite of what you're implying. And the other companies, releasing symmetric shaped mice recently, are aware of the situation. Of course 6-7 years ago i bought the MX518 just because there were no decent ambidextrous mice available. How can you choose something that doesn't exist? And even if the targeted market is smaller you still can't afford to ignore it, unless you wanna end up like Logitech going from no.1 to wherever they are now. G100s is not a risky move because of its shape, but you cant release a mouse with no side buttons in the year 2013. The mediocre sensor doesn't help either.
Sorry to offend, but I'm going off what i've discussed with a couple product mangers and or other acquaintances. Steelseries rehashing 2 molds as at least 10 separate models doesn't account for the market at hand. Quantity differences between established retail brands like Rzr or logi is substantial.

Chris Pate (Logitech's PM) publicly mentioned something along the lines of it difficult to bring the G100s to a global scale, but wanted to go ahead with it regardless of risk. I can't quote the exact text due to the thread being deleted by a mod.

Honestly, there's nothing special hardware wise, but the sensor isn't mediocre. It functions quite well imho. Much more precise than previous 3055 model code/hw, which tended to skip pixels at default resolution. -.-
Quote:
Originally Posted by trhead View Post

Just ordered 7810R and 7810L
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Anyone know which laser sensor is in 7810L? Does it have prediction?
Cypress based model. I forgot specifics.

Shouldn't have inherit correction, or acceleration. Issue will likely be quite low IPS tracking speed (if that matters to you).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Shouldn't have inherit correction, or acceleration. Issue will likely be quite low IPS tracking speed (if that matters to you).
Thanks. You are a legend on this forum.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Sorry to offend, but I'm going off what i've discussed with a couple product mangers and or other acquaintances. Steelseries rehashing 2 molds as at least 10 separate models doesn't account for the market at hand. Quantity differences between established retail brands like Rzr or logi is substantial.

Chris Pate (Logitech's PM) publicly mentioned something along the lines of it difficult to bring the G100s to a global scale, but wanted to go ahead with it regardless of risk. I can't quote the exact text due to the thread being deleted by a mod.
No offense, we're all grown ups here
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That's Chris Pate's opinion. With all due respect, Logitech doesn't represent mice companies around the world (not anymore). I agree that big bulky ergonomic mice are in more demand because of casual gamers feeling more comfortable with those, it's the "harder to push in retail" statement i'm having a problem with. You can't expect to sell ambidextrous designs just as well as ergonomic ones, but Logitech's ignorance is a mistake imo. Their G1 design sold pretty good afaik, so i can't see why that would suddenly change. Also the gap between Logitech sales and Steelseries is not relevant (David and Goliath?). I bet Sensei would've been sold in much bigger numbers if it was produced by Logitech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Honestly, there's nothing special hardware wise, but the sensor isn't mediocre. It functions quite well imho. Much more precise than previous 3055 model code/hw, which tended to skip pixels at default resolution. -.-
Like i said, add side buttons, A3090 sensor, different coatings then come back and tell me if it sells. Right now its just a shell and a "not so special sensor", so don't look surprised if it's not a hit.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Sorry to offend, but I'm going off what i've discussed with a couple product mangers and or other acquaintances. Steelseries rehashing 2 molds as at least 10 separate models doesn't account for the market at hand. Quantity differences between established retail brands like Rzr or logi is substantial.

Chris Pate (Logitech's PM) publicly mentioned something along the lines of it difficult to bring the G100s to a global scale, but wanted to go ahead with it regardless of risk. I can't quote the exact text due to the thread being deleted by a mod.

Honestly, there's nothing special hardware wise, but the sensor isn't mediocre. It functions quite well imho. Much more precise than previous 3055 model code/hw, which tended to skip pixels at default resolution. -.-
Cypress based model. I forgot specifics.

Shouldn't have inherit correction, or acceleration. Issue will likely be quite low IPS tracking speed (if that matters to you).
A Cypress sensor really I thought they where onyl used in SS Ikari, I am guessing I buy one just for the lolz, are there more mice using the cypress sensor atm?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaingosu View Post

No offense, we're all grown ups here
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That's Chris Pate's opinion. With all due respect, Logitech doesn't represent mice companies around the world (not anymore). I agree that big bulky ergonomic mice are in more demand because of casual gamers feeling more comfortable with those, it's the "harder to push in retail" statement i'm having a problem with. You can't expect to sell ambidextrous designs just as well as ergonomic ones, but Logitech's ignorance is a mistake imo. Their G1 design sold pretty good afaik, so i can't see why that would suddenly change. Also the gap between Logitech sales and Steelseries is not relevant (David and Goliath?). I bet Sensei would've been sold in much bigger numbers if it was produced by Logitech.
Like i said, add side buttons, A3090 sensor, different coatings then come back and tell me if it sells. Right now its just a shell and a "not so special sensor", so don't look surprised if it's not a hit.
More of a collective census among the industry. Not mine, or Chris'.
Quote:
I agree that big bulky ergonomic mice are in more demand because of casual gamers feeling more comfortable with those, it's the "harder to push in retail" statement i'm having a problem with
..Yes and those casual gamers make up a bulk of sales. Do I have to comment on the rest?

Given the choice without experience or knowledge, are you telling me you would have picked an ambidextrous mouse vs another product? You had bias or reasoning to pick the 518 while another company was actually producing nothing but symmetric mice; even with side buttons. Fun fact.., that same company was also almost bankrupt before a change of leadership role and buyout. From there, aggressive restructuring occurred.

Their G1 was pulled from Europe early on, never reached US. Asian sales are an entirely different market all together. The gamers that import and promote happen to be an entirely different demographic. Much like the people here promoting things like A3090.

Learned understanding, not anything taught at the store. I did mention a shift; specifically relating internet perspective. IE: Overtime, things will change as society becomes more dependent.
Quote:
Also the gap between Logitech sales and Steelseries is not relevant (David and Goliath?). I bet Sensei would've been sold in much bigger numbers if it was produced by Logitech.
Brand identity; their egro mice would likely still outsell. While possible, It still proves a point.
Quote:
Like i said, add side buttons, A3090 sensor, different coatings then come back and tell me if it sells. Right now its just a shell and a "not so special sensor", so don't look surprised if it's not a hit.
Again, that's learned. You took effort to figure out what you want in a mouse. You merely represent enthusiast gamers as you're particular just as I.

Razer Taipan sales are likely weaker vs line, even as a feature rich ambe mouse. Let me guess, sensor isn't good enough? Technically speaking, DPI count is still very relevant to both Europe and US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltel1te View Post

A Cypress sensor really I thought they where onyl used in SS Ikari, I am guessing I buy one just for the lolz, are there more mice using the cypress sensor atm?
Ikari used ONS I. The alternative lot is much weaker, 20-30 IPS rating. Yes a few, Mionix has a couple as far as I remember.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Given the choice without experience or knowledge, are you telling me you would have picked an ambidextrous mouse vs another product? You had bias or reasoning to pick the 518 while another company was actually producing nothing but symmetric mice; even with side buttons. Fun fact.., that same company was also almost bankrupt before a change of leadership role and buyout. From there, aggressive restructuring occurred.
I had no experience or knowledge at that time. All i knew was ambidextrous feels more comfortable (having previously used the ancestors of MX300 and WMO), sadly there were no such mice with A3060. What company was producing nothing but symmetric mice? I'm talking about the MX518 v1, Steelseries didn't even exist at that time. Or maybe they did produced mousepads and possibly those moded IMO 1.1, i really can't remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Their G1 was pulled from Europe early on, never reached US.
I wasn't talking about G1 in particular. I was referring to similar mice from Logitech, like Logitech Pilot Optical or MX300. Back in the day everybody bought one of those at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Brand identity; their egro mice would likely still outsell. While possible, It still proves a point.
There's a big difference between "outsell" and not having an ambidextrous shape at all. The consequences? Well i'm forced to buy mice from other companies, although i have been a long time fan of Logitech. How is that a good marketing decision? Maybe you are able to think on a larger scale than me, but the conclusion "ambidextrous mice sell less so let's not even have one" seems silly to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Razer Taipan sales are likely weaker vs line, even as a feature rich ambe mouse. Let me guess, sensor isn't good enough? Technically speaking, DPI count is still very relevant to both Europe and US.
Not likely weaker than Imperator, considering both have equally flawed sensors.

Let's make things clear. I was under the impression that you agree with Logitech on this decision. If you don't then it's my mistake, i misunderstood. Ambidextrous mice are not specifically designed for pro gamers or enthusiasts. The shape of a mouse is simply a personal preference. I know/see lots of people that don't even play games and still prefer an ambi shape. It's like matte vs glossy, braided cable vs non-braided etc. So deciding to ignore ambi mice was NOT a good decision (based on market research or amount of sells or whatever) and nobody can convince me otherwise. Just like ignoring ergonomic mice (like Steelseries does atm) is also a mistake and will probably backfire.
 
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