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Discussion Starter #1
FYI: I know this seems pretentious and facetious especially given the expertise of the forum but I would like to say I religiously used to buy a mouse based on sensor and virtually nothing else . Oh and there is a tl;dr below

My friend and I were having an argument. He said that mice sensor's don't really matter (and he didn't mean some office grade cheapo mouse either; he was uses a mid-range sensor) and the most important thing to him is shape.

I would argue over and over again "you can't learn muscle memory!" and his first responce was "well I'm global elite on CS:GO; there are plenty of pros and people in my rank without your super fancy PMW 3366 or even 3310. Hell, I was using a Roccat Lau and I still got lots of frags".

I'm using the G303 and I thought it was great but after just using an office mouse, the pain of using it probably doesn't really do me any favours (probably the contrary) and I swear I always did better with the SS rival - a mouse comparatively worse in every way bar shape.

I get really mad at this response, but I've been thinking. tl;dr Is it really that important to buy a mouse like a rival or g502 (heavy but good sensor) or could a cheap gaming mouse (mid range sensor but light weight) still in most situations perform well enough to serve someone?
 

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Mehehe!
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It does matter ... to some extent. Not really in terms that it will turn you into an aiming God out of nowhere, but it will help you achieve your maximum potential better.

But ...

Without it being in the right shape/weight combination, you're also gimping your consistency.

I found that a bad shape for me personally, ruins my "syncing" of my movement vs aiming a bit. Think "defensive" vs "offensive" moves and how you chain link them without actually thinking about it.

Do I dodge left to avoid the incoming shot and then fire as his recoil/spread kicks in?


It's those little things that work more flawlessly as well with the right shape.
 

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Mouse lover
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The sensors now are similar, what you need to worry about mainly is shape and coating, you need a comfortable shape and a coating you can hold (in terms of current gaming mice)

If it's uncomfortable or your fingers slip when trying to hold it then you're not going to be solid/happy with your product, if you can aim with your basic mouse then use it. I use to use an oldschool logitech optical mouse (one of the early ones) and it was one of the better mice I used for a long time. If it didn't break I'd still probably be using it, a lot of these gaming mice are trying strange shapes and some of them are applying weird coatings I guess for people who ?sweat? a lot and all it has resulted is me not being able to grip the mouse cause my fingers slip since my hands don't sweat and are more on the dry side :/
 

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Hahaha..

Your friend is a shallow thinker, as are you.

To be clear, I'm not saying he's bad at counterstrike, I'm saying he's not very learned..

Here's the breakdown..

It takes you 100s 1000s of hours to master in game control on (any mice), GREAT..

It takes you 6 hours @ minimum wage of $7.00 to buy a G303..

THESE are separate investments.. Made at separate times during the course of your Counter Strike Journey..

There's No sense in Comparing them, you should DO BOTH, if possible.

thumb.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorruptBE View Post

it will help you achieve your maximum potential better.
Pretty much this. And it applies to every aspect of a mouse. It's not about "oh, if I get THIS sensor I will play better" its about not having the sensor be the bottleneck of your actual skill/potential. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, that's why often it's not "enough" just to have X sensor. Ideally you want the best sensor in a mouse that has "specs" in other regards (shape, weight, latency, etc) that are more desirable than the competitors. Every system/chain has a point that's weaker than the rest, it's just about getting it as "balanced" as possible. Choosing a top-tier sensor is really just insurance that it (the sensor) isn't what's holding your skill ceiling (usually the actual bottleneck) back.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSebWilkes View Post

tl;dr Is it really that important to buy a mouse like a rival or g502 (heavy but good sensor) or could a cheap gaming mouse (mid range sensor but light weight) still in most situations perform well enough to serve someone?
for cs, the latter is almost always the better option
 

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IMO sensor is important, but not as important as shape and weight. If there are two mice with the same shape and weight that you like and one has a better sensor you will probably do better with the better sensor once you are used to it. How much better will depend on how bad the bad one is and how good the good one is, but there should be a difference. If you compare a mouse with a good sensor, but bad weight and/or shape to one with a good shape and weight, but a bad sensor I'm not sure which you will perform better with, but unless the bad sensor is quite bad I would think the better shape and weight would more than compensate in terms of comfort and consistency. Also a bad shape can at least contribute to wrist problems. You have to remember there is no one good or bad shape though. A shape others like could be terrible for you and vice versa.
 

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I've been thinking about this a lot, and I've been through a tons of mice. Here's my take on it.

I wouldn't necessary say whatever last sensor should be bought instantly or used. It all depends on what games you play, for me its CS and has been for years.. and throughout these years, to this current day mice like G400, Deathadder, 3310's mice are just as good as any other with a better sensor, like G303. So what I'm trying to say is, unless we are talking extremely outdated weak sensors with certain things that can hinder your performance (jitter, high LOD), shape is the more important factor.

I'd say when it comes to modern mice, whether its a 3310 or a 3360, there isn't any reason to upgrade unless you feel like you want to, but if the mouse has other downsides to it that are more important, like shape then it's definitely not worth it to upgrade. Sure an upgrade to a better sensor would give you... a better sensor, but it doesn't mean it will make you play better as a player, it doesn't mean that it's going to be better than your previous mouse for you.. a lot of things makes a mouse good, and sensor is just a part of those things, but not the entire thing.

If we take a look at pro players, the majority plays with 3310 mice, even though there is the G303, G502, nobody cares about that, and it's not purely down to sponsorships, not all teams are bound to some gear company, and even if they are, they don't necessarily care either way... if we take cloud9 as an example, it was only shroud (now stewie too) that used the G303 even though they are forced to play with logitech gear. Skadoodle and n0thing chose to play with the G100s... which indeed has a much, much older sensor.

So TL;DR, treat sensors as the kind of quality of life change, but not a necessity. If there are other factors in that said mouse that is going to annoy you, then the sensor wouldn't be worth it at all. I'll play with a G400, Zowie, Rival 300 any day of the year, than force myself to play with a G303 or the new rival brick 700, just for the sake of going from 3310 > 3360. Totally not worth it and it won't make you a better player if you can't even play with comfort.

So in the end, sensors doesn't matter if the shape isn't good, if the weight isn't good, if the LOD isn't good, if the quality isn't good. Only time a sensor matters is if everything else is completely unplayable, like acceleration, jitter and other issues. GuardiaN plays and has been for years, with a Kinzu V1.. that should say a lot.

Sensors used to matter in the past, when there weren't that many good mice around or companies that knew how to make them good, but nowadays I wouldn't say so, because nearly every new sensor these couple of years has been performing incredibly well to meet all standards when it comes to sensor performance.

Let's compare this to the phone industry. When IPhone first came out, it was worth it to upgrade from a Nokia w/e older phones were, to an actual smartphone, because it's simply new technology that is worth having... but if we look at nowadays, how worth would it be to keep upgrading your iphone to the newer models? is it a necessity to go from a iphone 6, to a 6s? or samsung galaxy S6 to S7? Absolutely not, but if you do, sure you will have some quality of life change, but you could definitely live without... specielly if the said new phone has a worse camera, or feels uncomfortable for you to hold in your hands.
 

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Shape > click latency > sensor IMO.

If the shape is good and the click latency is good then I should never have to worry about losing battles in CS:GO so long as the sensor isn't so bad it malfunctions from a normal ~2m/s swipe, I couldn't care if I was using an Avago 3050, Avago 3090, or 3310...as long as it's not laser, I'm already getting Xai flashbacks.
rolleyes.gif
 

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Shape > Weight > Perfect Control Speed > Low tracking lag > button lag

Pass/Fail criterion: Angle snapping and speed-dependent error ("acceleration"), within reasonable tolerance
 

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Shape, weight, sensor position, grip-style match are all much more important factors for me than the sensor itself. I only care about sensors on the technical level, not really at how well they perform in games. I play the best with the Rival 100 which, according to a lot of people, has a piss-poor sensor.

Then again, if there was another version of Rival 100 with a better sensor, obviously I would use that - pretty sure my performance wouldn't change though but at least it would make me feel more comfortable on psychological level which might add into the placebo and make me perform just a tiny bit better at times.
 

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Shape/weight is most important because that determines how comfortable you are and how well you can perform a lot. Sensor just needs to be good enough to not limit your own potential.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I was wondering about the SteelSeries Kana v2 ... looks like a good shape and the sensor is 'reasonable' and it weighs the same as a G303.

Oh, and thanks for the responses! Really helpful, thank you.
 
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