[mikalcarbine]

I just picked up some used ram from eBay. I should have done a little more research but the G Skill code 8810B indicated it should be B die. The sticks appear to be from September 2017.

Here's the Thaiphoon readout. Both sticks seem to have CRC errors in their SPD tables which I read shouldn't be a huge deal. What is confusing me is the part number is K4A8G085W[B/C]? Shouldn't it just be one or the other to indicate B or C die?

Here's the ZenTimings with XMP @ 3200

I'm currently running TM5 with anta777 extreme (15 minutes in and no errors so far) to see if running a tRFC of 320 (200ns) at 1.45v will throw an error. If this passes I'll keep tightening it up to see where it breaks. This alone should eliminate if it is Samsung C die right?

Can one successfully remove heatspreaders without damaging the heatspreader or thermal tape? Maybe with a heat gun? Would it be hard to reuse the thermal tape at that point?

Edit:

Set to 3200MHz with XMP at 1.45V and tightened tRFC to 288 and it passed anta extreme for an hour. Testing at 256 right now and then I'll work on tightening timings and see where it needs more voltage to scale.

 

[bhav]

Hmmm ... 'Thaiphoon is bad at identifying B vs C die, MFR vs AFR, etc. in my experience. It will likely say "Samsung B/C/D" die for the readout - or mislabel C-die as B-die (have had this happen)'

Are there different bins of B-Die? how much voltage is too much?

I have some TeamGroup UD4 DDR4 3000 8GBx2 (K4A8G085W[B/C/D]-BCPB) that I believe may be B-Die though could well be C-Die, I have ran them with a 1600AF for 2+ years at 3400 CL14/1.45v with no issues, now I can push them to 4000, though 1.45v doesn't seem to be cutting it (random YT page crashes...

www.techpowerup.com

Maybe Hwinfo can identify it in the ram section?

Oh and haha, a funny joke comment:

'May 31, 2022

This is the first thread I have ever read on the net that says 1.6 is ok for daily driver voltages. If you are not sure, I wouldnt go above 1.5 for daily'.

 

[Martin v r]

use this program

 

[Martin v r]

mods mem ,
Thaiphoon Burner for Custom Memory Configuration

 

[EMUracing]

10B should be B-die, but based on the binning on the XMP, it may be a pretty bad bin... 10C would be C-die.

Try running 14-14-14 timings at 3200 and see if it takes, if it does then it most probably is B-die. I have a set of really bad B-die which can run up to 3600, then hits a brick wall. The fact that you can run 288 trfc is indicative of b-die rather than c-die.

If it is C-die, usually over 1.35v reduces stability and it does not scale with voltage. So, the fact that you are running stable with 1.45v and under 300 trfc leads me to believe that it is B-die. Try tighter primaries and see if it takes. All of the B-die that I have can do 14-14-14-28 at 3600 with about 1.45v and under 300 trfc

The 3200 non CL14 bins are a grab bag, and arguably the worst bin you can get for memory (because just about every IC can run those timings and speed).

 

[bhav]

@Martin v r OP apready used thaiphoon, it doesn't work for all kits and also no longer works for anyone using Win 11 since the 2H22 update.

 

[mikalcarbine]

10B should be B-die, but based on the binning on the XMP, it may be a pretty bad bin... 10C would be C-die.

Try running 14-14-14 timings at 3200 and see if it takes, if it does then it most probably is B-die. I have a set of really bad B-die which can run up to 3600, then hits a brick wall. The fact that you can run 288 trfc is indicative of b-die rather than c-die.

If it is C-die, usually over 1.35v reduces stability and it does not scale with voltage. So, the fact that you are running stable with 1.45v and under 300 trfc leads me to believe that it is B-die. Try tighter primaries and see if it takes. All of the B-die that I have can do 14-14-14-28 at 3600 with about 1.45v and under 300 trfc

The 3200 non CL14 bins are a grab bag, and arguably the worst bin you can get for memory (because just about every IC can run those timings and speed).

Thanks I'll try running 14-14-14 at 3200 and see how it goes. If this does turn out to be a horrible bin what would you recommend I look for in a 32GB kit where I'm looking to run 3800 CL14? Should I be aiming for a CL14 3200 kit or maybe a CL14 3600 kit for guaranteed timings at that speed?

 

[kairi_zeroblade]

Thanks I'll try running 14-14-14 at 3200 and see how it goes. If this does turn out to be a horrible bin what would you recommend I look for in a 32GB kit where I'm looking to run 3800 CL14? Should I be aiming for a CL14 3200 kit or maybe a CL14 3600 kit for guaranteed timings at that speed?

Kit with flat timinga like 16-16-16-36 (though some micron kits have that same pattern)

Or go through here

 

[Imprezzion]

I actually think it is b-die. What other die would ever run a tRFC that low with that low of a vDIMM without massive errors. Only b-die can run that low.

But yeah, if it's a bad b-die bin like my Corsair Dominator 3466C16's just try to run 3600 16-16-16-36-52(tRC)-272(tRFC)-2T at 1.35-1.40v. If they do it it's 100% b-die. Or, with a bit more vDIMM like 1.45v, tRFC as low as 256/240 would be possible but only on b-die.

 

[Damage Inc]

Looks like D-Die to me. D-Die can run fairly tight tRFC and it's default tRCD/tRP is always 2 clocks lower than CAS. One way to find out is to try 1.45V or higher. C-Die won't run at anything higher than 1.35-1.37V.
Otherwise pull the heatspreader and check the letter after "W". WB, WC, WD etc.

 

[Blameless]

See how low you can run tRFC.

 

[mikalcarbine]

I'm playing around at 3200 MHz to get a feel before I try scaling to 3600 or 3800 MHz. I still need to tighten up tRAS and tRC but most of the secondary and tertiary timings are reasonable values. I'm currently stuck on tRCDRD. When I tightened from 16 to 14 I've been getting errors on test 6 of 1usmus tm5 config, but only after the first cycle and when my memory is at 43C. I ran my fans at 100% and it passed for 3 cycles but gave an error on test 11.

I've been playing with Rtt, loosening tRFC, vDimm and my ClkDrvStr with no luck so far.

At 1.4v I can get my tRFC to 256. It won't boot at 224 but I haven't tried scaling it with voltage yet.

 

[EMUracing]

43c is pretty warm for the setting that you have, do you have a fan you could setup to actively cool the memory.

I think its safe to say that this is B-die though.

If you are planning to take these settings up to 3600+, I would start by loosening the timings a bit on trfc and, as it takes considerably more voltage to scale up at 250 than 300 in testing the stability. Im currently running around 288 at 3800, 1.54v with 4xSR sticks of 3200 c14. I needed to adjust the rtt resistance a bit to get over 3600 stable. At 3800 I needed to change trcd to 15, where 3733 I can run at 14. (I am also running on b550m Mortar with 5600x, but also have MSI b550m Pro-VC with 5600g which tops out at 3600 stable with the same 4 sticks, but runs 2 sticks up to 4200 before running into stability issues regardless of timings and voltage so I think mobo limitation).

Check the DRAM calculator setttings for b-die as a basic guideline (you can extract your XMP to HTML and input directly to the calculator). Theres no 5000 series option, but its just useful as a guide for some of the subtimings to see what changes with frequency in both safe and fast options.

 

[OLDFATSHEEP]

I'm playing around at 3200 MHz to get a feel before I try scaling to 3600 or 3800 MHz. I still need to tighten up tRAS and tRC but most of the secondary and tertiary timings are reasonable values. I'm currently stuck on tRCDRD. When I tightened from 16 to 14 I've been getting errors on test 6 of 1usmus tm5 config, but only after the first cycle and when my memory is at 43C. I ran my fans at 100% and it passed for 3 cycles but gave an error on test 11.

View attachment 2586108


I've been playing with Rtt, loosening tRFC, vDimm and my ClkDrvStr with no luck so far.

At 1.4v I can get my tRFC to 256. It won't boot at 224 but I haven't tried scaling it with voltage yet.

This kit is definitely Sam B and should run 3200 14-15 easily.

RTT is correct for SR Bdie, but not for your DR Bdie. You can use Disabled-RZQ//6-RZQ/3. Besides, you can play with VSOC, IOD, and CCD to find the best settings. VSOC might be as low as 0.95V.

 

[fray_bentos]

Thanks I'll try running 14-14-14 at 3200 and see how it goes. If this does turn out to be a horrible bin what would you recommend I look for in a 32GB kit where I'm looking to run 3800 CL14? Should I be aiming for a CL14 3200 kit or maybe a CL14 3600 kit for guaranteed timings at that speed?

Based on the out-of-the-box frequency and timings this is certainly not a good bin; G skill were selling 3600 MHz 15-15-15 Trident Z B-die sticks around this time (the same kit I am still using).

 

[Dziarson]

It is not a B-die B-Die Finder

only one kit is Bdie 3200cl16 2x16