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http://www.itnews.com.au/News/353838,bitcoin-declared-a-currency-in-germany.aspx
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And so it begins...
[IT] Bitcoin Declared A Currency In Germany
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http://www.itnews.com.au/News/353838,bitcoin-declared-a-currency-in-germany.aspx
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If you don't like it, ban it.
If you can't ban it, tax it.
If you can't ban it, tax it.
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Interesting, I'm excited about how bitcoin is gaining traction and being recognized as an actual unit of exchange, but I'm concerned how governments are going to respond to it. I don't see Germany's actions as having any real effect, at least in the short term. A question on the forefront of my mind is how governments are going to tax and regulate bitcoin-only transactions.
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^ This. And how exactly do you manage to calculate gains on an anonymous transaction which is not physically quantifiable? That's like taxing gains on privately held and traded securities or antiquities. Sure if the person is completely honest, and has maintained copious records then it would be possible, but how likely is that.
And as someone like myself that has coins that were mined long ago when the exchange rate was less than $10/BTC - does that mean I've experienced a ~1000% appreciation - or does it mean that whenever I actually exchange them for goods and/or paper currency that the par value is set at whatever that amount was at the time.
This seems like an attempt at control that lacks any understanding of the principles involved. So I would expect to see something similar in the US soon.
![tongue.gif]()
And as someone like myself that has coins that were mined long ago when the exchange rate was less than $10/BTC - does that mean I've experienced a ~1000% appreciation - or does it mean that whenever I actually exchange them for goods and/or paper currency that the par value is set at whatever that amount was at the time.
This seems like an attempt at control that lacks any understanding of the principles involved. So I would expect to see something similar in the US soon.
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Already happeningOriginally Posted by DiGiCiDAL
This seems like an attempt at control that lacks any understanding of the principles involved. So I would expect to see something similar in the US soon.![tongue.gif]()
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No bloody surprise here coming from the German government. Ruining Europe's IRL economic system wasn't enough for old Angela it seems.
Just FYI:
I am from Frankfurt. I can asure you that nothing happend here.
No aliens came from outter space and no dinosaurs spawning.
So basically life goes on.
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![smile.gif]()
I am from Frankfurt. I can asure you that nothing happend here.
No aliens came from outter space and no dinosaurs spawning.
So basically life goes on.
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No idea what that means...Germany is paying major bucks to other European countries so they dont have to declare bankruptcy
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If you want a real good idea of the specifics you can read them at Yanisvaroufakis.eu. You may recognize the name as the Valve economist. His economic writing on real world issues is very interesting, concise, and enlightening. Because I can guarantee NOTHING you hear in America on the MSM is even remotely accurate on the EU.
Bitcoin will fail, there is a reason the gold standard failed.
No that is not correct. Germany is paying big bucks to give loans to countries that have no chance of paying them off. They are simply holding the status quo in the hopes of things turning around, their banks are bankrupt remember. It will not. The European union needs to have a monetary policy that is similar to the US. Do you think if Alabama were to go bankrupt the entire US Federal system would collapse? NO. In Europe that is not the case. The Euro was set up as a de facto Deutschmark. Germany is unwilling to give up the power they currently hold in relation to the Euro, and thus the entire EU is on the verge of collapse.Originally Posted by Mr.Eiht
Just FYI:
I am from Frankfurt. I can asure you that nothing happend here.
No aliens came from outter space and no dinosaurs spawning.
So basically life goes on.
No idea what that means...Germany is paying major bucks to other European countries so they dont have to declare bankruptcy![smile.gif]()
If you want a real good idea of the specifics you can read them at Yanisvaroufakis.eu. You may recognize the name as the Valve economist. His economic writing on real world issues is very interesting, concise, and enlightening. Because I can guarantee NOTHING you hear in America on the MSM is even remotely accurate on the EU.
Bitcoin will fail, there is a reason the gold standard failed.
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22,343 Posts
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They're taxing the money you make by trading the currency. 25% is the rate in Germany.Originally Posted by LukaTCE
25% for e-currency rly even for real currency trade there are no taxes.
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http://www.wipfli.com/Resources/Images/31987.pdf
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edit: Nvm I assume you just mean holding bitcoins and making purchases with them without ever having them taxed
I don't know how it works in Germany, but if you failed to declare significant amounts of income and made unaccounted for deposits to your accounts, you could get in a lot of trouble.Originally Posted by fluxlite
I would expect most people will not declare their fiat gains from cryptocurrency anyway.
edit: Nvm I assume you just mean holding bitcoins and making purchases with them without ever having them taxed
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Naturally this could work the other way... but unless someone is not only documenting their exchange trades, but also their secondary material gains - I can see no way to tax this reasonably. Additionally, unless the government involved was also providing the tax incentives of declaring losses (if the above situation were reversed and the rate fell by 50% between the point of exchange and the purchase of goods) - I see no one ever reporting anything.
On the other hand if the exchange itself is being taxed... then I simply see a black market arising to prevent exchange taxes from being able to be collected - and if it hits both sides of the transaction... the 'legitimate' exchanges would lose all of their business as they would be operating at a 25-50% deficit in rates (depending on 1-sided or 2-sided collection). Since crypto-currencies have no geographic or political requirement... that's going to be pretty difficult to pull off.
However, as far as a 'shot across the bow' is concerned... it and the US counterpart are pretty decent really. Could definitely put a dent in the exchange and at least make many people think twice about holding any considerable amount of BTC in the countries concerned.
I can't speak for him but I was assuming that. Similarly you could have a situation where an individual purchased BTC with fiat currency... but then redeemed them for goods/services which otherwise would have been purchased with said currency. Suppose that at the time of the first exchange the rate was US$100:1BTC but at the time of the purchase the rate had climbed to US$200:1BTC. Either twice the amount of goods/services could be purchased for the same price (a material gain) or purchased with half the BTC, thus leaving an unredeemed balance (a unrealized material gain). If the difference were to be once again exchanged into the fiat currency (without tracking on the purchase made with BTC unless voluntarily reported) at a later time when the rate had once again returned to $100:1BTC - this transaction would be indistinguishable from someone buying some BTC and then simply converting half the amount back into the fiat currency... while also receiving an amount equal to that in goods/services (but would appear as a zero sum gain).Originally Posted by DrGroove
I don't know how it works in Germany, but if you failed to declare significant amounts of income and made unaccounted for deposits to your accounts, you could get in a lot of trouble.
edit: Nvm I assume you just mean holding bitcoins and making purchases with them without ever having them taxed
Naturally this could work the other way... but unless someone is not only documenting their exchange trades, but also their secondary material gains - I can see no way to tax this reasonably. Additionally, unless the government involved was also providing the tax incentives of declaring losses (if the above situation were reversed and the rate fell by 50% between the point of exchange and the purchase of goods) - I see no one ever reporting anything.
On the other hand if the exchange itself is being taxed... then I simply see a black market arising to prevent exchange taxes from being able to be collected - and if it hits both sides of the transaction... the 'legitimate' exchanges would lose all of their business as they would be operating at a 25-50% deficit in rates (depending on 1-sided or 2-sided collection). Since crypto-currencies have no geographic or political requirement... that's going to be pretty difficult to pull off.
However, as far as a 'shot across the bow' is concerned... it and the US counterpart are pretty decent really. Could definitely put a dent in the exchange and at least make many people think twice about holding any considerable amount of BTC in the countries concerned.
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14,224 Posts
"tax of 25 per cent"
![mad.gif]()
It's either "25 percent" or "25%"
"25 per cent" doesn't make sense.
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Usually if you fight something like this, it's going to end up fighting back 10 times as powerful. The best thing to do is make it official and tax it.
It's either "25 percent" or "25%"
"25 per cent" doesn't make sense.
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This.Originally Posted by GingerJohn
If you don't like it, ban it.
If you can't ban it, tax it.
Usually if you fight something like this, it's going to end up fighting back 10 times as powerful. The best thing to do is make it official and tax it.
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Greece sold some of their islands
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This is a massive push for bit coin , I imagine other countries would have to jump on it soon or Germany would be the only one raking in digital taxes . it´s about to get interesting , i mean BC was banned in Thailand only two weeks ago.
They don´t really care if you can´t pay it back , bit like toxic loans. They´d prefer you to turn over all your state owned to tender out, water / electricity /gas / healthcare etcOriginally Posted by Cesaro Summability
No that is not correct. Germany is paying big bucks to give loans to countries that have no chance of paying them off. They are simply holding the status quo in the hopes of things turning around. It will not. The European union needs to have a monetary policy that is similar to the US. Do you think if Alabama were to go bankrupt the entire US Federal system would collapse? NO. In Europe that is not the case. The Euro was set up as a de facto Deutschmark. Germany is unwilling to give up the power they currently hold in relation to the Euro, and thus the entire EU is on the verge of collapse.
If you want a real good idea of the specifics you can read them at Yanisvaroufakis.eu. You may recognize the name as the Valve economist. His economic writing on real world issues is very interesting, concise, and enlightening. Because I can guarantee NOTHING you hear in America on the MSM is even remotely accurate on the EU.
Bitcoin will fail, there is a reason the gold standard failed.
Greece sold some of their islands
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OT
This is a massive push for bit coin , I imagine other countries would have to jump on it soon or Germany would be the only one raking in digital taxes . it´s about to get interesting , i mean BC was banned in Thailand only two weeks ago.
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2,271 Posts
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So Tax it before it gets to the population or Tax it after in exchange form... If they are smart they will tax people who run Massive pools. That means it will hurt ALL people who mine BTC. Its not impossible just difficult.
Easy, by regulating the process for exchange... if they control all forms of how it can be exchanged and change the way it is tracked they can Tax it easily, or it will be Taxed at the mining pool itself before it even gets out to other users. They CAN tax it... if they control the pools and make it so people who run the pools HAVE to collect the tax on it then bingo its Taxed. They can even tax it at the "Counter" when you wanna buy into it.Originally Posted by spartan2012197
Interesting, I'm excited about how bitcoin is gaining traction and being recognized as an actual unit of exchange, but I'm concerned how governments are going to respond to it. I don't see Germany's actions as having any real effect, at least in the short term. A question on the forefront of my mind is how governments are going to tax and regulate bitcoin-only transactions.
So Tax it before it gets to the population or Tax it after in exchange form... If they are smart they will tax people who run Massive pools. That means it will hurt ALL people who mine BTC. Its not impossible just difficult.
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