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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've been thinking of going Intel for the first time and I have no idea what to choose. I hear Ivy us better than Sandy, but not by much. Then I hear get an i5 for gaming rather than a i7 so I figured I'd come to you guys for help. I also plan on getting the Crosshair from Asus, but I know the z77 is a much favored board as well.

I'm open to all suggestions so fire away!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgamer View Post

So I've been thinking of going Intel for the first time and I have no idea what to choose. I hear Ivy us better than Sandy, but not by much. Then I hear get an i5 for gaming rather than a i7 so I figured I'd come to you guys for help. I also plan on getting the Crosshair from Asus, but I know the z77 is a much favored board as well.

I'm open to all suggestions so fire away!
Personally, I think you are on a decent platform for the time being. An 8150 should be more than enough to play games with the 670 for now. If you can wait for Haswell and the 1150 socket, that is where you are going to start seeing a big difference.
 

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We'll need some details (like budget, whether or not you want to O/C, what you'll be using the build for) before we can give any usable advice.

However, if you're still currently in possession of your sig rig, you might want to just wait the extra 3-4 months for Haswell (Ivy Bridge's successor) to come out. Even as justifiably maligned as the Faildozer is, it won't stop you from doing stuff in the interim.
 

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For gaming, if you have the budget, get an i7 3770k. Next gen consoles will utilize 8 cores so hyperthreading will be used more. Ivy is a better choice because it has better performance and PCIe 3.0.

As for the Crosshair.... you can't put an intel chip in an AMD motherboard. The Asus equivalent would be the Maximus V extreme or formula.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ahh you're right, sorry about that! I meant to say Maximus. And I haven't heard about Haswell yet. Will it be a major improvement? If so then I can definitely wait a couple more months.

And also I do plan to overclock and budget is not an issue.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgamer View Post

Ahh you're right, sorry about that! I meant to say Maximus. And I haven't heard about Haswell yet. Will it be a major improvement? If so then I can definitely wait a couple more months.

And also I do plan to overclock and budget is not an issue.
there willl be a performance increase with haswell over ivy bridge but how much i think is still rumors. probablly like 6 - 10%. rumors like intel bringing back BCLK overclocking makes it attactive to me if they do
smile.gif
 

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I would hold onto your current rig , it is decent. Wait for Haswell and see how that goes . SB and IB chips will drop in price and you may even be able to pick up a delided IB chip then. Do you have an upgrade path on your current board ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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Originally Posted by martinhal View Post

I would hold onto your current rig , it is decent. Wait for Haswell and see how that goes . SB and IB chips will drop in price and you may even be able to pick up a delided IB chip then. Do you have an upgrade path on your current board ?
I was going to eventually update the CPU but I've been noticing that Intel is doing much better performance wise. It feels like AMD is more budget now than anything and that's not what I want to go for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah I think I'll wait for Haswell if that's the case. I'll have to do a little research on it once I'm home from work. Do you recommend the Z77 or the Maximus for mobo?
 

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Is Z77 not the chipset ? I would love a Maximus board but they are like hens teeth here in South Africa. We only get mainstream Asus boards here. Gigabyte is my choice as we get a better range. If you wait for Haswell then wait for new boards too as it is a socket change from IB Im sure it will have a new chipset. Do you fold ? Interested to see how well a 8150 folds.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgamer View Post

Yeah I think I'll wait for Haswell if that's the case. I'll have to do a little research on it once I'm home from work. Do you recommend the Z77 or the Maximus for mobo?
not if your going to wait for haswell, different socket LGA1150 and newer chipset. z77's are use the LGA1155 sck.
 

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Depends.

Are you okay with delidding? Do you want to delid, does it interest you at all, does it seem like a chore or does it seem fun...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club

If you are okay with delidding, I'd pay up to $40 more for Ivy, more or less depending on how cool or fun delidding seems to you.

If you are not okay with delidding, i'd recommend sandy bridge unless Ivy costs the same.

It really depends on who you are as a user and prices.

Do you live near microcenter? Where do you plan to buy from?
Quote:
For gaming, if you have the budget, get an i7 3770k. Next gen consoles will utilize 8 cores so hyperthreading will be used more. Ivy is a better choice because it has better performance and PCIe 3.0.
Yes but I don't think games will be utilizing 8 threads for a long time. The OP can always sell his i5 and get an i7 in 5 years if it's really an issue. And next gen consoles aren't using anything nearly as strong as the 3570K even with 8 threads. And hyperthreading at best is what, a 20% performance boost?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/701?vs=551

i5-3570K vs i7-3770k. I know anandtech is hardly the best source on this but it's clear that for most programs, the i7 is just better because it has a larger cache. There's no reason to get an i7 over an i5 for gaming. Put that $100 into a better GPU. A 7950 is a lot better than the 7850, for example.

Also PCI 3.0 is not really important. It only really comes out on tri-sli 680s. If the OP is asking "should I get sandy or ivy, i5 vs i7" then I'm pretty sure he's not spending over $1000 on his GPUs and thus should not worry about pci 3.0.
Quote:
And I haven't heard about Haswell yet. Will it be a major improvement? If so then I can definitely wait a couple more months.
No one here can tell you the answer, and if they try, they are BSing you. Haswell might be what sandy bridge was, a huge leap in technology and for power users like us. Or, it could be the next bulldozer, a total flop. Initial estimates say a 10% performance boost I think. I think they said 15% with ivy over sandy and in real world applications that is more like 5-8% and only in synthetic benchmarks is it even close to 10%.

Personally, i wouldn't hold my breath. The release of haswell isn't going to make ivy bridge plummet in value, anyways, so worst case scenario, you sell your ivy bridge, or sandy bridge, and buy haswell. Or not, whatever. Haswell's release isn't going to make your sandy or ivy any slower either.

And have you heard about Broadwell? Then, Skylake man, dd4 and quadcore mainstream support. If you were REALLY smart you'd wait 2 years for Broadwell. Well, they say 2 years, in reality it'll probably be 3-4. The next big thing is always around the corner man, if you play this game you'll never have a computer.

AMD is only 'bad' because of price, but they'll come down. Right now I'd recommend the Phenom X4 for $200-400 computer builds, and the i5 for $400-1000 computer builds. I think my sig rigs are relevant to this discussion.

Also bear in mind Haswell (and ivy bridge extreme, ***, that's going to be $400+ just for the cpu) will be expensive upon release, and the included motherboards. Yes, the VRM will be on the chip, cheaper mobo. But more expensive chip. Based on your posts about actually caring about money, I think it'd be best if you just bought an i5, sandy or ivy depending on prices and the kind of user you are.

However if you are in new jersey close to microcenter, the i5-3570K is cheaper than the i5-2500k simply because MC doesnt have the 2500k anymore, so that makes the choice very simple! $189 for ivy is cheaper than any sandy you'll find.

As for a motherboard, I'd recommend the Asus P8Z77-V LK $59 at microcenter when combo deal with ivy. It's not as good as the UD3H but it's still a decent board. At $59 it's an absolutely amazing, godly board.

The MSI G41 board for $34 is okay, but only for low overclocks of ~4.5, 4.6, maybe 4.7 if you got a really good chip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Depends.

Are you okay with delidding? Do you want to delid, does it interest you at all, does it seem like a chore or does it seem fun...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club

If you are okay with delidding, I'd pay up to $40 more for Ivy, more or less depending on how cool or fun delidding seems to you.

If you are not okay with delidding, i'd recommend sandy bridge unless Ivy costs the same.

It really depends on who you are as a user and prices.

Do you live near microcenter? Where do you plan to buy from?
Yes but I don't think games will be utilizing 8 threads for a long time. The OP can always sell his i5 and get an i7 in 5 years if it's really an issue. And next gen consoles aren't using anything nearly as strong as the 3570K even with 8 threads. And hyperthreading at best is what, a 20% performance boost?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/701?vs=551

i5-3570K vs i7-3770k. I know anandtech is hardly the best source on this but it's clear that for most programs, the i7 is just better because it has a larger cache. There's no reason to get an i7 over an i5 for gaming. Put that $100 into a better GPU. A 7950 is a lot better than the 7850, for example.

Also PCI 3.0 is not really important. It only really comes out on tri-sli 680s. If the OP is asking "should I get sandy or ivy, i5 vs i7" then I'm pretty sure he's not spending over $1000 on his GPUs and thus should not worry about pci 3.0.
No one here can tell you the answer, and if they try, they are BSing you. Haswell might be what sandy bridge was, a huge leap in technology and for power users like us. Or, it could be the next bulldozer, a total flop. Initial estimates say a 10% performance boost I think. I think they said 15% with ivy over sandy and in real world applications that is more like 5-8% and only in synthetic benchmarks is it even close to 10%.

Personally, i wouldn't hold my breath. The release of haswell isn't going to make ivy bridge plummet in value, anyways, so worst case scenario, you sell your ivy bridge, or sandy bridge, and buy haswell. Or not, whatever. Haswell's release isn't going to make your sandy or ivy any slower either.

And have you heard about Broadwell? Then, Skylake man, dd4 and quadcore mainstream support. If you were REALLY smart you'd wait 2 years for Broadwell. Well, they say 2 years, in reality it'll probably be 3-4. The next big thing is always around the corner man, if you play this game you'll never have a computer.

AMD is only 'bad' because of price, but they'll come down. Right now I'd recommend the Phenom X4 for $200-400 computer builds, and the i5 for $400-1000 computer builds. I think my sig rigs are relevant to this discussion.

Also bear in mind Haswell (and ivy bridge extreme, ***, that's going to be $400+ just for the cpu) will be expensive upon release, and the included motherboards. Yes, the VRM will be on the chip, cheaper mobo. But more expensive chip. Based on your posts about actually caring about money, I think it'd be best if you just bought an i5, sandy or ivy depending on prices and the kind of user you are.

However if you are in new jersey close to microcenter, the i5-3570K is cheaper than the i5-2500k simply because MC doesnt have the 2500k anymore, so that makes the choice very simple! $189 for ivy is cheaper than any sandy you'll find.

As for a motherboard, I'd recommend the Asus P8Z77-V LK $59 at microcenter when combo deal with ivy. It's not as good as the UD3H but it's still a decent board. At $59 it's an absolutely amazing, godly board.

The MSI G41 board for $34 is okay, but only for low overclocks of ~4.5, 4.6, maybe 4.7 if you got a really good chip.
I have no idea what delidding is so for that part, I have no clue.

So for gaming and overclocking purposes an i5-3570k would suffice an would have minimal difference from an i7-3770k? Sorry if I keep repeating myself but I just like to make sure I'm making the right decision.

As for the Haswell, according to other posts, it will have a different socket so I'd have to get a new board which I don't like swapping them out much unless it's needed. I'll probably just end up waiting until they come out and see how they do before I make a purchase. For all we know it could be amazing the I'd have to repurchase. I'm not in a rush right now anyway so I can definitely wait a couple more months.

And I do live in NJ so microcenter is right near me so ill definitely look into them when making my purchase. I usually do all my shopping from Newegg, but if I can save a bit then why not.
 

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Deliding is taking the IHS off the IB chip and replacing the TIM with Cool Laboratory liquid pro to make it run cooler. IB chips run hot due to gap between die and IHS , the TIM just cant get the heat out so it runs hot. Temp drops from 20 - 30 degrees have been reported. Its fun I did mine and can run 5.1 at less than 85 deg. Haswell may have similar issues as Intel say the 22 nm and sub 22 nm dies don't support solder.
 

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Quote:
I have no idea what delidding is so for that part, I have no clue.
Fortunately we live in the Age of The Goo Gleh, seek and ye shall find the mysts will part.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/0_100
Quote:
So for gaming and overclocking purposes an i5-3570k would suffice an would have minimal difference from an i7-3770k? Sorry if I keep repeating myself but I just like to make sure I'm making the right decision.
Well it really depends on the game/application you use, but 99.999%, yes, the i5-3570K is absurdly more power than necessary as it is.

If you just told us what games you play, specifically, plan to play, and what settings, we could really flesh out your entire build much better. But gaming does not benefit from hyperthreading, and won't in the near future.

It's entirely possible it might in the far future, none of us can read the future so we can't say for sure, someone would be lying if they said Hyperthreading is future proof either way. For all you know in the future CPUs are just not used anymore and in-game performance is 99.99% the GPU. Hyperthreading might turn out to clash very badly with Windows 10. Who knows. No one.

Reasonably, though, it's safe to say that the i5-3570K is more than enough power for gaming, and the i7-3770k's hyperthreading provides very little benefit even in games that appreciate it. Which is like, only total war. Most games are all about the GPU, so that $100 would be a huge increase in GPU performance, but even in stuff that appreciates the i7's hyperthreading, that $100 isn't really as big a value. It can be a decent value in some multi-threaded stuff but not in games.
Quote:
As for the Haswell, according to other posts, it will have a different socket so I'd have to get a new board which I don't like swapping them out much unless it's needed.
The whole point of building a computer is how easy it is to swap parts. What difference does it make if you have to swap it out. How can you say 'i dont like swapping them out'? If you don't like buliding computers, maybe buildling one isn't the best decision for you? Buildling computers is for fun, not just the value. Although yea I guess even if you hated doing it, maybe building it is the best value still...

but I'm just saying this outlook is a bit goofy. It's very, very easy to swap out computer components, even the motherboard. I don't know how you can say you dont like swapping them out. I mean I love swapping out computer components, I literally find excuses to pull a cable accidentally so then it reveals itself and I gotta rip open my entire build so I can push it back and hide it from view again in a spot you can't even see unless you take the side panel off and stick your head in the case.

I mean that's maybe a bit extreme but it's a computer. It's all very easy to swap and remove. No one here can tell you how well Haswell will do, and initial reports suggest it isn't going to be a huge upgrade anyways. And no one knows about pricing, which I'm pretty sure is going to be pretty beast upon release. You'd really have to wait until Black Friday for reasonable prices on Haswell, after all is said and done.
Quote:
And I do live in NJ so microcenter is right near me so ill definitely look into them when making my purchase. I usually do all my shopping from Newegg, but if I can save a bit then why not.
Ah. Newegg has 'good' prices on everything, and absolutely stunning specials, but not the best price on everything. Microcenter also tends to always have the best CPU and motherboard prices, as well as awesome case and SSD deals.

Here's a quick build for you:
$189 i5-3570k microcenter
$59 asus LK microcenter bundle price with cpu
$20 cheapest ddr3 desktop ram 2x2gb if you are savvy, you can find some really high quality BBSE or PSC ram 2x2gb on ebay or the overclock.net trading forum that can do 2000, 2400mhz, for $20-30. 2400mhz will definitely be a noticeable increase over some 1600mhz ram.
$85 Samsung 830 128gb ssd amazon
$17 nzxt source 210 microcenter (or the $64 nzxt phantom, if you want to spend a bit of extra money, this is an awesome place to put it, although it is just a case so i dont know if you care about whether your case is just a black box or not and if you'd rather just put the money towards performance)
$39 antec neo eco amazon or newegg
$39 Zalman LQ320 newegg, this is the best deal on a heatsink in a long time, it should outperform the h100i when both have 2 similar fans.

for gpu depends on your needs. Are you upgrading or buildng a new computer?

Why are you doing this anyways? The 8150 was a huge dissapointment but I mean it should be more than powerful enough for current gaming needs. I really don't see anything that the 8150 would be weak at. It might be a dissapointment and way worse than intel but it's still a very, very strong chip. Like others said maybe you should just wait till haswell. Not because haswell will be awesome but because your current CPU is already good enough. Your current build in general is quite strong, really.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Fortunately we live in the Age of The Goo Gleh, seek and ye shall find the mysts will part.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/0_100
Well it really depends on the game/application you use, but 99.999%, yes, the i5-3570K is absurdly more power than necessary as it is.

If you just told us what games you play, specifically, plan to play, and what settings, we could really flesh out your entire build much better. But gaming does not benefit from hyperthreading, and won't in the near future.

It's entirely possible it might in the far future, none of us can read the future so we can't say for sure, someone would be lying if they said Hyperthreading is future proof either way. For all you know in the future CPUs are just not used anymore and in-game performance is 99.99% the GPU. Hyperthreading might turn out to clash very badly with Windows 10. Who knows. No one.

Reasonably, though, it's safe to say that the i5-3570K is more than enough power for gaming, and the i7-3770k's hyperthreading provides very little benefit even in games that appreciate it. Which is like, only total war. Most games are all about the GPU, so that $100 would be a huge increase in GPU performance, but even in stuff that appreciates the i7's hyperthreading, that $100 isn't really as big a value. It can be a decent value in some multi-threaded stuff but not in games.
The whole point of building a computer is how easy it is to swap parts. What difference does it make if you have to swap it out. How can you say 'i dont like swapping them out'? If you don't like buliding computers, maybe buildling one isn't the best decision for you? Buildling computers is for fun, not just the value. Although yea I guess even if you hated doing it, maybe building it is the best value still...

but I'm just saying this outlook is a bit goofy. It's very, very easy to swap out computer components, even the motherboard. I don't know how you can say you dont like swapping them out. I mean I love swapping out computer components, I literally find excuses to pull a cable accidentally so then it reveals itself and I gotta rip open my entire build so I can push it back and hide it from view again in a spot you can't even see unless you take the side panel off and stick your head in the case.

I mean that's maybe a bit extreme but it's a computer. It's all very easy to swap and remove. No one here can tell you how well Haswell will do, and initial reports suggest it isn't going to be a huge upgrade anyways. And no one knows about pricing, which I'm pretty sure is going to be pretty beast upon release. You'd really have to wait until Black Friday for reasonable prices on Haswell, after all is said and done.
Ah. Newegg has 'good' prices on everything, and absolutely stunning specials, but not the best price on everything. Microcenter also tends to always have the best CPU and motherboard prices, as well as awesome case and SSD deals.

Here's a quick build for you:
$189 i5-3570k microcenter
$59 asus LK microcenter bundle price with cpu
$20 cheapest ddr3 desktop ram 2x2gb if you are savvy, you can find some really high quality BBSE or PSC ram 2x2gb on ebay or the overclock.net trading forum that can do 2000, 2400mhz, for $20-30. 2400mhz will definitely be a noticeable increase over some 1600mhz ram.
$85 Samsung 830 128gb ssd amazon
$17 nzxt source 210 microcenter (or the $64 nzxt phantom, if you want to spend a bit of extra money, this is an awesome place to put it, although it is just a case so i dont know if you care about whether your case is just a black box or not and if you'd rather just put the money towards performance)
$39 antec neo eco amazon or newegg
$39 Zalman LQ320 newegg, this is the best deal on a heatsink in a long time, it should outperform the h100i when both have 2 similar fans.

for gpu depends on your needs. Are you upgrading or buildng a new computer?

Why are you doing this anyways? The 8150 was a huge dissapointment but I mean it should be more than powerful enough for current gaming needs. I really don't see anything that the 8150 would be weak at. It might be a dissapointment and way worse than intel but it's still a very, very strong chip. Like others said maybe you should just wait till haswell. Not because haswell will be awesome but because your current CPU is already good enough. Your current build in general is quite strong, really.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I''ve been building computers for years. What I meant by swapping out is buying a part, buying a new part and replacing it and selling the old part again. I don't like to make purchases only to swap it out a month later is what I meant unless its a MAJOR upgrade.

I just recently purchased a 680 FTW so I'm good on that part. Hell, with all the selling of old parts I'm doing soon ill be able to buy another one at little to no cost.

I appreciate all of your input, though. I'm just trying to see what my best options are before making a purchase.

I've been wanting to switch over for some time so I figured I'd look into it now. And yeah I do have a sting build, but I like to get as much performance as I can. I'm sure I won't notice it much right now which is why I plan on waiting a bit longer.

I noticed the water cooler you mentioned. I have had 2 bad experiences with Antrec coolers: 1 not working at all and the other making a loud humming. I might have to check out the Zalaman in this case.
 

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I see. Well no one here can tell you if haswell is worthwhile or not. Projections say 10%, that's not really much and it's usually less than projection, especially in real world applications. Haswell's focus is on mobile, less energy usage and such. Now maybe that'll make it an awesome overclocker or something but personally, I woudln't hold my breath on it.

I mean CPUs and computer components in general are like cash, they are fungible. You could sell your 8150 on ebay/craigslist or even your entire computer and just get an intel build or whatever at no cost, maybe even pocket some money. That's what I did - I had a phenom X4 build, gtx 460, HDD, NH-D14. I got an ssd as a gift, I had a hyper 212+ yet to sell off, and I bought a $20 4850 to play around with. So I stuck the Hyper 212, 4850, HDD in the phenom build, sold it for $360, and then given I had a gpu, hdd, and hsf already, I made an i7-3770K build and pocketed about $40.

I'm going to list this computer on craigslist in about a week too. I have no need to upgrade, in fact, my Phenom x4 computer was more than adequate for my needs of playing starcraft2 and streaming it in HD with webcam and everything. Obviously an i5 is almost twice as powerful and a noticeable performance increase, but I didn't need it by any means. But I enjoy putting together computers, I enjoy playing with new hardware and stuff, so I listed my Phenom X4 build just for kicks and when it got serious offers, I got serious about selling it with putting those cheaper components in.

I'll probably sell this i7 computer for maybe $700-1000, I'm not sure what I can get for it but I think a lot for i7-3770k + Z77X-UD5H. i have no need to upgrade or anything, but it's all fungible and easy to move around. You could definitely buy an Ivy Bridge, whatever, and then if Haswell is awesome, or not, buy it. Or not. I'm sure when Haswell comes out, I'll sell my i7-3770K and get a Haswell i5 and pocket the money, or maybe even just get a Phenom X4 computer again and pocket a lot of money.
 
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