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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello my fellow OCN'ers!

I always hear the "120mm rad for each component is the way to go" for cooling a system. I am quite certain a 360mm rad (25-30mm thick with decent fans maybe ML series) will be good enough for cooling my 6700k and 1080 FTW.

Problem is, this case (Air 740) is a little smallish for doing a rad up front. It looks like have about 89-90mm from front mounting area to video card. that leaves about 20mm gap, which is good.

Crossflow radiators (port on opposite ends from each other) are supposedly bad. Is this still the same today? It would super simplify the build with trying to mount a D5/Res down in the bottom of the case. It would be a shame to have to tuck it in the back chamber of the Air 740.
I was considering a Hardware Labs Nemesis GTS Xflow.

Now, coming to radiator sizing, I already have a D5 pump. I am looking for a res that is smaller than 200, if possible. A 240, the pump and my cabling would be smacking the radiator and fans in the front. I think a 170 or so would be good. Im still browsing them.

It must be a horizontal mount. MMRS looks cool, but a little too much pizzaz for me. I am fine with a Primochill CTR. I am open for options though, as the CTR only comes in 120 and 240 (little too big I believe for what I am going for.)

Anyone know of a shop that sells just res compatible for D5 pump?

Forgive my noobishness. I havent built a loop since the Thermaltake Bigwater 745 was a thing...I did chop my CM Centurion 5 to fit the entire system internally. Long ago (2008/9 maybe?)

Here is my lovely paint rendering of my idea for loop flow and parts. Looking for feedback, tips and ideas, and thoughts if you have built in an Air 740/540 case, willing to share your experiences.

https://imgur.com/a/eThS0PD

I cant upload the JPG, link it to show pic in thread, so I just dropped the imgur link.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I am thinking of going soft tubing to make things easier. I would go hard line, but if I had an R6 or something roomier inside to make good bends and host all of the items for the build.

10/16 or 3/8" by 5/8" is what I am considering.
 

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Hi,
Not so sure I'd use that slim of a rad personally
I believe 36-40mm is about as thin as I would go.

Tubing size is good just don't use ek tubing :)
 

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Shooting down fallacies
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I would do all I could to use the standard GTS rather than the X-Flow. At lower fan speeds, the X-Flow is ~20% behind the standard GTS in cooling capacity. It will cool the 6700K and 1080, but you will be able to do it much more quietly with the standard GTS. BTW - contrary to what @ThrashZone states, rads do not necessarily give better real world performance as they get thicker. If you look at the Xtreme rigs charts (http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/11/radiator-round-2015/5/ ) you will find that in many cases the slimmer rads (especially the GTS) tend to cool better at lower rpm than thicker rads, which means they cool better with noise that you can live with. As a matter of fact....the 30mm thick GTS cools as well at any speed as the 45mm thick EK or Alphacools at any fan speed.

If the MMRS is too blingy (shame, because they are a really nice system and the choice of tops would help you with tube routing), have a look at the XSPC Photon 170. It's a really nicely made glass piece, and would allow you to face the D5 forward to make the X-Flow unnecessary. Having used a bunch of Primochill components, I can tell you that they make great tubing....the rest....not so great
 

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Crossflow rads do not perform as badly as some people believe. In reality there is no reason not to use one if it will suit your plans better than a U flow.

From the extremrigs radiator roundup a Xflow and Uflow version of the GTS rad is tested and in a couple of tests the difference can seem not slight.

At 750rpm fan speed and 1GPM coolant flow the difference is 161 vs 191W at 10C so around a 20% difference. The thing is though that this particular test is the worst result and is partially the result of the GTS's specific and unique design. It is highly restrictive to coolant flow thanks to its very narrow internal tubes and thin size. The thin tubes maximise coolant contact with the tube walls and promote heat exchange.

As airflow is increased the difference shrinks. At 1300rpm and 1gpm it is 265 vs 290W for closer to 10% difference. At 1800rpm its 345 vs 362W for an even smaller gap.

Its important to note that the test is performed at specific coolant flow rates even though the Xflow is much lower restriction so will allow higher real world flow rates.

In the 750rpm push pull fans and averaging flow rates of 0.5, 1.0 and 1.5gpm the result is identical. In the higher push pull fan speeds the results are very close again.

So, what this shows is that at the slightly higher air flow rates you would be using on the rad, and allowing for the higher flow rate you will get with the Xflow the real difference is negligible. The GTS Xflow still performs better than some other similar sized Uflow rads.
Even if we allow a 10% difference in performance, that translates to 10% difference to your coolant temp. So 10C vs 11C or something similar to that. When dealing with small numbers like coolant temp deltas over ambient, percentages on graphs get much less impressive sounding.
Don't fall for the trap of letting graph hysteria blind you to the real world results and differences. Overall air flow in the case will have a far greater impact on cooling than which particular rad you choose.

The GTS rad is a unique outlier design, if more common design rads of Xflow and Uflow rads are tested you don't see the extremes of differences at certain test parameters and they perform quite similarly overall.
 

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Hello my fellow OCN'ers!

I always hear the "120mm rad for each component is the way to go" for cooling a system. I am quite certain a 360mm rad (25-30mm thick with decent fans maybe ML series) will be good enough for cooling my 6700k and 1080 FTW.

Problem is, this case (Air 740) is a little smallish for doing a rad up front. It looks like have about 89-90mm from front mounting area to video card. that leaves about 20mm gap, which is good.

Crossflow radiators (port on opposite ends from each other) are supposedly bad. Is this still the same today? It would super simplify the build with trying to mount a D5/Res down in the bottom of the case. It would be a shame to have to tuck it in the back chamber of the Air 740.
I was considering a Hardware Labs Nemesis GTS Xflow.

Now, coming to radiator sizing, I already have a D5 pump. I am looking for a res that is smaller than 200, if possible. A 240, the pump and my cabling would be smacking the radiator and fans in the front. I think a 170 or so would be good. Im still browsing them.

It must be a horizontal mount. MMRS looks cool, but a little too much pizzaz for me. I am fine with a Primochill CTR. I am open for options though, as the CTR only comes in 120 and 240 (little too big I believe for what I am going for.)

Anyone know of a shop that sells just res compatible for D5 pump?

Forgive my noobishness. I havent built a loop since the Thermaltake Bigwater 745 was a thing...I did chop my CM Centurion 5 to fit the entire system internally. Long ago (2008/9 maybe?)

Here is my lovely paint rendering of my idea for loop flow and parts. Looking for feedback, tips and ideas, and thoughts if you have built in an Air 740/540 case, willing to share your experiences.

https://imgur.com/a/eThS0PD

I cant upload the JPG, link it to show pic in thread, so I just dropped the imgur link.
any single 360mm low FPI radiator is not going to be enough period.


I ran the largest 360mm low FPI radiator for 6 years and I could not play a game on that unit at all.


to me this is about matching the correct kind of fans to the type of radiator they will be attached to.

so for low FPI radiators you need low RPM fans. so for a radiator that has a 7 to 11 FPI I would suggest fans that have a 1500 to 1800RPM's.

for medium FPI radiators with 12 to 20 FPI, I would suggest fans from 1900 to 3000RPM's

for high FPI radiators with 21 to 30 FPI, I would suggest fans from 3000 to 7500RPM's

this is also about the noise level as higher FPI radiators will have higher RPM fans attached to them, but the build will require less radiator space to cool the same amount of hardware. a single 360 radiator with high FPI and six high RPM fans attached to it, can cool a CPU and a GPU without issue.

a build with mid FPI radiators and mid RPM fans will need a 360 and a 240 radiator, to do the same job. the main difference being that this build will be quitter than a high FPI radiator build.

a build with low FPI radiators will need two 360mm radiators, or more depending on how slow the fans attached to it are. this is the most quite build you can make.
 

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Overclocker in training
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Hi,
Someone needs a blower :)
 

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any single 360mm low FPI radiator is not going to be enough period.
Were you running a 6700 and a 1080? Or something equally as efficient? I have an OC 4790K and 1080 on a 360GTS in a notoriously bad case and have great temps with the fans at 850-900rpm. There are many, many others here doing the same.Today's components are a lot more efficient than what was out there six years ago.
 

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Were you running a 6700 and a 1080? Or something equally as efficient? I have an OC 4790K and 1080 on a 360GTS in a notoriously bad case and have great temps with the fans at 850-900rpm. There are many, many others here doing the same.Today's components are a lot more efficient than what was out there six years ago.
so your saying build to todays components, because stuff only gets more efficient, great advise.(sarcastic)
all I am saying is that to me, water cooling is something I use on multiple builds. so if I am going to build a single 360mm radiator, to cool a CPU, and a GPU. I would use a high FPI radiator, like the koolance 30FPI radiator. I would use either 3 6000RPM delta fans, or 6 3000RPM fans. that way if I have a less efficient components in the future, I wont have to add more radiators, or replace the one I have. this build of mine being a prime example of that fact.

http://www.overclock.net/forum/61-water-cooling/1615072-cpu-radiator-upgrade-water-cooled-rig.html

originally, this was built to cool a AMD FX60 and a 6800GT. that build worked fine with a single 360mm low FPI radiator. as I upgraded to a AMD FX8350 and a GTX480 that single 360mm radiator was no longer enough to keep the hard ware cool. now I have FX9590 and two GTX580 in that build. now with the two 360mm low FPI radiators, they are enough to keep the all hardware cool.
 

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so your saying build to todays components, because stuff only gets more efficient, great advise.(sarcastic)
You're right. Doing a cooling system design based upon the components it will be cooling is silly. Just stuff as much garbage as you can in the case with no consideration for what is actually needed. And make sure it requires ear-splitting fans to function. Having an efficient cooling system that is both cool and quiet is for babies. Now excuse me while I go order some high fpi rads to increase the noise level of my build at the same temps. :thumb:

</extreme sarcasm>
 

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You're right. Doing a cooling system design based upon the components it will be cooling is silly. Just stuff as much garbage as you can in the case with no consideration for what is actually needed. And make sure it requires ear-splitting fans to function. Having an efficient cooling system that is both cool and quiet is for babies. Now excuse me while I go order some high fpi rads to increase the noise level of my build at the same temps. :thumb:

</extreme sarcasm>
well I have been there, and I have done that, so to each his own. to me it is simply setting yourself up for failure in the future, just like I did. no sarcasm needed this time, because I am not going to sit here, and suggest to others, to make the same stupid mistake I did.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/18113-completed-transactions/1598873-xspc-raystorm-750-ex240-kit.html
well for that matter the same mistake you made, for the whole 20 hours you used it.
 

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OP, your rendering for a loop looks fine.


Just be sure the radiator is cleaned or allowed to soak in vinegar and rinsed several times prior to use.


jayz2cents did a video on cooling 2 video cards and an overclocked 6th or 7th gen intel chip with only a 240mm radiator.


Good quality fans, and in your case, a STRONG water pump is what you will need the most. your loop design is asking a lot out of a pump, trying to push fluid basically straight up through 2 restrictive components. Many tech-tubers use the D5 for this reason. Consider the term "head pressure" and research on that.



a 360mm radiator or a 280mm radiator is good enough to cool everything to prevent thermal throttling. At minor overclocks of course.



However, Id suggest adding a 120 or 140mm radiator on the back of the case to allow you MORE room for growth, or just to allow slower fan speeds.


Your biggest cost will be fans. The smaller the radiator surface area, the more important good static pressure and good airflow your fans need to be.




Now, if you intend to overclock quite a bit, or like to run very long stress tests, use the thickest radiators you can fit. This will also usually require a push and pull setup on the big rad to prevent crappy cooling performance
 

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well I have been there, and I have done that, so to each his own. to me it is simply setting yourself up for failure in the future, just like I did. no sarcasm needed this time, because I am not going to sit here, and suggest to others, to make the same stupid mistake I did.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/18113-completed-transactions/1598873-xspc-raystorm-750-ex240-kit.html
well for that matter the same mistake you made, for the whole 20 hours you used it.
While writing an evaluation of, and prepping a video install guide of the XSPC kit took longer than anticipated when I agreed to do it, not sure I would call it a mistake. As that was the only reason I had it in the first place..... :p

I've made plenty of mistakes, that just didn't happen to be one of them. And I try to be helpful by not having people make the same mistakes I did - like spending way too much money buying more rads than were required, or thinking that "thicker is better" and having to have my system run at far higher fan rpm than I would have liked, etc. I try to help people avoid those pitfalls and the "shove everything you can into the case" mentality that persists on these forums (which you are not guilty of). And I apologize if I took the snarkiness too far.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
OP, your rendering for a loop looks fine.


Just be sure the radiator is cleaned or allowed to soak in vinegar and rinsed several times prior to use.


jayz2cents did a video on cooling 2 video cards and an overclocked 6th or 7th gen intel chip with only a 240mm radiator.


Good quality fans, and in your case, a STRONG water pump is what you will need the most. your loop design is asking a lot out of a pump, trying to push fluid basically straight up through 2 restrictive components. Many tech-tubers use the D5 for this reason. Consider the term "head pressure" and research on that.



a 360mm radiator or a 280mm radiator is good enough to cool everything to prevent thermal throttling. At minor overclocks of course.



However, Id suggest adding a 120 or 140mm radiator on the back of the case to allow you MORE room for growth, or just to allow slower fan speeds.


Your biggest cost will be fans. The smaller the radiator surface area, the more important good static pressure and good airflow your fans need to be.




Now, if you intend to overclock quite a bit, or like to run very long stress tests, use the thickest radiators you can fit. This will also usually require a push and pull setup on the big rad to prevent crappy cooling performance
I have watched quite a bit of jayz videos. I wished he still continued the series.


Rest of you all thanks for inputs and ideas.

I think a 30mm xflow with 16fpi a d my ml120's will be fine in a single push config throgub radiator. I can move the ml140s from bottom of case to top to help exhaust, stick them on quiet speed biased on cpu or GPU temp.

The three front fans can be based on GPU temp to keep a steady rate, as CPU can fluctuate quickly and ramp up or down fast.

I feel that the ML series provides good static pressure (not that it truly matters with today's equipment compared to 10 years ago) with air speed, quiet operation, and not so lame rgb lights. I find them a novel, but not all over my computer haha.

I had some primochill soft line from my old school build. It still was in decent shape, felt sticky from running the blood red coolant and having that sit in the tube for a super long time. No plasticizer appeared for the 8+ years, so it's decent tube...but all new stuff will be used.

A d5 on pwm will be between .5gpm to about 1.2 max speed right? I think this setup would be fine. Now, should I hold off and sell my 1080 ftw with block/backplate and wait for 1170/1180? Or just build this beast? the new card will do 4k 144hz easily. But will cost a lot until the Time and Titan models drop. That could be a year as we seen in past. To build it seems

Yes, the photon I have been eyeballing, a lot. It fits what I am looking for for size and requirement. Thanks for the recommend.


Now, anyone doing sales? Or stores you all recommend??

Danger den isn't what it used to be. Frozen CPU either.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Do we have a promo code for PPCS? They have the res in stock and just a hair more than ordering from Amazon UK store. I see we have frozencpu code, but they don't have just the d5 top and res.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Do we have a promo code for PPCS? They have the res in stock and just a hair more than ordering from Amazon UK store. I see we have frozencpu code, but they don't have just the d5 top and res.
Their father's day codes just expired http://www.overclock.net/forum/61-w...rformance-pcs-com-support-8.html#post27493796 but the standard OCN55 should work if you are over the minimum.
There was codes? Dang it!! Thanks for the OCN55 code.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Ok fellas,

I just ordered the D5 Photon 170 from Amazon. Performance PC's had a great price even with the discount, but shipping was atrocious!

I ended up getting it for 66 shipped from the UK.

Now, fittings. I think black chrome would go nicely with my build. The Maximus VIII Hero is good colored. I have to get this bracket modified and colored black or a black chrome to boot. Time to shop some rustoleum spray paints!

THis is what I picked up
https://www.amazon.com/XSPC-Photon-Reservoir-Combo-Included/dp/B06XGW75D2

What happened to full editor? Anyways, I see they offer an adapter for top, to use for a fill or return. Will be acquiring one soon!
 

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any single 360mm low FPI radiator is not going to be enough period.


I ran the largest 360mm low FPI radiator for 6 years and I could not play a game on that unit at all.


to me this is about matching the correct kind of fans to the type of radiator they will be attached to.

so for low FPI radiators you need low RPM fans. so for a radiator that has a 7 to 11 FPI I would suggest fans that have a 1500 to 1800RPM's.

for medium FPI radiators with 12 to 20 FPI, I would suggest fans from 1900 to 3000RPM's

for high FPI radiators with 21 to 30 FPI, I would suggest fans from 3000 to 7500RPM's

this is also about the noise level as higher FPI radiators will have higher RPM fans attached to them, but the build will require less radiator space to cool the same amount of hardware. a single 360 radiator with high FPI and six high RPM fans attached to it, can cool a CPU and a GPU without issue.

a build with mid FPI radiators and mid RPM fans will need a 360 and a 240 radiator, to do the same job. the main difference being that this build will be quitter than a high FPI radiator build.

a build with low FPI radiators will need two 360mm radiators, or more depending on how slow the fans attached to it are. this is the most quite build you can make.


Wow, we have very different ideas about low, mid and high speed fans. I regard 2000rpm fans as the very fastest I would ever use and only then with them set to lower speeds. The noise of fans just ramps up so fast with rpm.
I like to have 1200-1300rpm as the speed the fans will run while the system is under load and 700 or lower at idle.

I have been cooling a small socket intel chip and large chip Nvidea GPU with a single 280mm, 45mm thick rad at those fan speeds with perfectly good results. In fact I don't imagine vastly higher fan speeds could improve the temps by all that much. I get about a 13C Air-water delta on the most demanding loads the system gets. That's with the system all sealed up, but with a more open setup (still with Demci filters on all fans) the temps drop significantly to around 9C

The OP's system should be lower wattage so should work just as well.
 

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Wow, we have very different ideas about low, mid and high speed fans. I regard 2000rpm fans as the very fastest I would ever use and only then with them set to lower speeds. The noise of fans just ramps up so fast with rpm.
I like to have 1200-1300rpm as the speed the fans will run while the system is under load and 700 or lower at idle.

I have been cooling a small socket intel chip and large chip Nvidea GPU with a single 280mm, 45mm thick rad at those fan speeds with perfectly good results. In fact I don't imagine vastly higher fan speeds could improve the temps by all that much. I get about a 13C Air-water delta on the most demanding loads the system gets. That's with the system all sealed up, but with a more open setup (still with Demci filters on all fans) the temps drop significantly to around 9C

The OP's system should be lower wattage so should work just as well.
what you have described is fine for a low FPI radiator, and is what I do with my own build, as it is low FPI radiators. what I was trying to define in general was not just about the fans, but the types of radiators that the different fans IMO should be attached to.

it is not going to do any good to attach 6000RPM fans to a 11FPI radiator, because the fans will stop being effective at increasing the cooling capacity of the radiator at about 2000RPM's. in contrary, it will benefit a 30FPI radiator to have 6000RPM fans attached to it, and even 7500RPM fans will further increase the cooling capacity of the 30FPI radiator. to me it is about attaching the right speed of fans, to the right FPI density radiator.

https://koolance.com/hx-360xc-radiator-3-fan-120mm-30-fpi-copper

the koolance 360mm 30FPI radiator is capable of dissipating 800watts to a 5C delta T from ambient air temperature to water temperature, with 6 X 4800RPM delta fans attached to it. I know this because at one time years ago, I owned this setup.

https://www.aquatuning.us/water-coo...lphacool-nexxxos-monsta-360mm-radiator?c=6566

now the monstra 360mm is a 10FPI radiator, it is capable of dissipating 400watts to a 5C delta T from ambient air temperature to water temperature, with 6 X 2000RPM fans attached to it. I know this because I currently own this setup.

http://hardwarelabs.com/blackice/gtx/gtx-360/

the HWL black ice GTX360 is a 20FPI radiator, it is capable of dissipating 600watts to a 5C delta T from ambient air temperature to water temperature, with 6 X 3000RPM fans attached to it. I know this because the charts say so, but I have never owned one to truly know.

added note, all the fans attached to radiators IMO, should have a good static pressure for the RPM of the fan. fans that have a good air flow, will not necessarily be a good fan for radiators.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HardwareLabs/Black_Ice_Nemesis_GTR_360/5.html
https://proclockers.com/reviews/coo...x-gen-two-xtreme-360-radiator-review/page/0/2

here are a couple of reviews that clearly show that the HWL radiators with 16 to 20 FPI, are clearly designed for what I consider mid speed fans. they do not do well with low RPM fans attached to them.
 
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