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⤷ αC
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
$3K Quad core version

Dual AMD FirePro D300 graphics processors with 2GB of GDDR5 VRAM each

1280 stream processors
256-bit-wide memory bus
160GB/s memory bandwidth
2 teraflops performance

Configurable to dual AMD FirePro D500, each with 3GB GDDR5 VRAM, 1526 stream processors, 384-bit-wide memory bus, 240GB/s memory bandwidth, and 2.2 teraflops performance; or dual AMD FirePro D700, each with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM, 2048 stream processors, 384-bit-wide memory bus, 264GB/s memory bandwidth, and 3.5 teraflops performance

$4K hex core version

Dual AMD FirePro D500 graphics processors with 3GB of GDDR5 VRAM each

1526 stream processors
384-bit-wide memory bus
240GB/s memory bandwidth
2.2 teraflops performance

Configurable to dual AMD FirePro D700, each with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM, 2048 stream processors, 384-bit-wide memory bus, 264GB/s memory bandwidth, and 3.5 teraflops performance

...

The D300 is clearly a 2GB Firepro W7000 / Firepro S7000 / Sky 500 or HD7870 Pitcairn XT (also R9-270X)
* A W7000 /S7000 clocked at 950Mhz = 2.432Tflops, so this must be underclocked further ~780Mhz for TDP reasons
* 160GB/s means 1250Mhz memory clock

I think the D500 with 1526 stream processors with 384-bit memory is new since the Tahiti LE is 256-bit memory with 1536 shaders and Tahiti Pro is 1792 shaders on 384-bit memory bus
* 240GB/s bandwidth = 1250Mhz memory clock on 384-bit

D700 is the Firepro W9000 , (HD7970 / HD7970GE / R9-280X ) 2048 stream processors Tahiti XT with 6GB VRAM (ECC?)
* 264GB/s bandwidth = 1375Mhz memory clock similar to original HD7970 and W9000
* most likely clocked to about 850Mhz based off compute numbers
 

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Revolutionary design. I wish other manufacturers would follow suit.

I don't plan to buy one, but I still think Apple has the best designers/engineers in the world.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro0428 View Post

Revolutionary design. I wish other manufacturers would follow suit.

I don't plan to buy one, but I still think Apple has the best designers/engineers in the world.
What's revolutionary?
What's the advantage of the design other than looks?
I still think Apple has probably the best marketers in the world, and probably the best patent and tax lawyers too.

AlphaC
Nice analysis.
The shader count for the D500 might be a typo tho..."just" 10 shaders/stream processors difference, and a weird number that is not a multiple of 64...meh...
Think GCN cards are using 64 core units, so is hardly plausible:

Tahiti LE = 1536 stream processors or 24 GCN compute units
D500 = 1526 or? 23.84 compute units?
rolleyes.gif


The rest seem plausible: downclocked cards to fit into the 450W envelope for the new Mac Pro.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

What's revolutionary?
What's the advantage of the design other than looks?
I still think Apple has probably the best marketers in the world, and probably the best patent and tax lawyers too.
Have you seen any PCs that have that much computing power in such a small package?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

What's revolutionary?
What's the advantage of the design other than looks?
I still think Apple has probably the best marketers in the world, and probably the best patent and tax lawyers too.

AlphaC
Nice analysis.
The shader count for the D500 might be a typo tho..."just" 10 shaders/stream processors difference, and a weird number that is not a multiple of 64...meh...
Think GCN cards are using 64 core units, so is hardly plausible:

Tahiti LE = 1536 stream processors or 24 GCN compute units
D500 = 1526 or? 23.84 compute units?
rolleyes.gif


The rest seem plausible: downclocked cards to fit into the 450W envelope for the new Mac Pro.
Actually you create a higher delta temp with the air in a huge squared vapour chamber which will be highly effective.
I would like one for testing actually those things are great for cooling peltiers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Being small is not an advantage, We aren't talking about mobile computers here.
True, but 12/24 threads, dual high end pro gpus, 64GB memory, storage all in that tiny space cooled by one fan. Doesn't anyone see how impressive that is? Can anyone name another manufacturer doing this sort of thing? All I ever see from every one else is the same stuff rehashed year after year.

I am not interested in getting into a pissing match here. If you don't see value in their engineering, to each his own.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro0428 View Post

Have you seen any PCs that have that much computing power in such a small package?
Mass produced, no. But there is nothing revolutionary in it. Seen Clevo or other dual GPU laptops that offer that kind of compute density way before it.
Lets not play with semantics about "not being 12C or not being X"...ofc, each generation of machine has to make use of what is available to it.

For non-mass produced, you could probably make an ITX based system with a fast (even overclocked) quad and a 7990 or equiv. using a 2U/SFF PSU and risers toat would ocupy roughly the same volume, and be faster. Comercially available ITX cases don't do that, simply because are made to be easily serviceable / built by consumers using off-the-shelf components.

I don't see ANY advantage in the size of this machine for the average buyer of a workstation that will be hooked to large resolution / large size displays, or will require large (in volume) external HDDs to make up for the limited internal storage space (the latter will be immediately an issue for most photographers, all video-editors / videographers etc).

On the other hand you get quite a few disadvantages due to their push for thunderbolt display connectivity (limiting choices to Apple displays - doh, how original and revolutionary), or the use for adapters that will make the small size even more irrelevant.

And last but not least, you are getting limited availability of cards, very small or zero ability to upgrade it with non-proprietary components (other than RAM) etc.
I bet if decent components where available in BGA, thats what Apple would be using, to lock out the posibility of you messing with it outside their control - much like the new MBPs.
But at least for those portables and AIO machines, few mm in thinckness here and there might be a good thing to remove, so soldering everything on the mobo can be justified.In a desktop, you are just limiting yourself with a tighter thermal envelope.

Honestly, I believe all of the above are far from a revolution - at least in a positive way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Actually you create a higher delta temp with the air in a huge squared vapour chamber which will be highly effective.
I would like one for testing actually those things are great for cooling peltiers.
Well...if we were talking passive heating / cooling, I would get the whole vertical chamber etc, but the stratification in such a small envelope with so high thermal density components that need to be cooled down is a joke. No room for natural convection to make any difference, when even low power (silent) fans can move many hundred times more air than what convection does.
This whole "hot air rises" theme is blown out of proportion in PC forums.

The Mac Pro will work 99.9% as efficient placed upside-down, having its fan exhausting air "the wrong way".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro0428 View Post

True, but 12/24 threads, dual high end pro gpus, 64GB memory, storage all in that tiny space cooled by one fan. Doesn't anyone see how impressive that is? Can anyone name another manufacturer doing this sort of thing? All I ever see from every one else is the same stuff rehashed year after year.

I am not interested in getting into a pissing match here.
If you don't see value in their engineering, to each his own.
I see value in the power of it. The size no, as that is not an advantage. That is more a hazard IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

What's revolutionary?
What's the advantage of the design other than looks?
I still think Apple has probably the best marketers in the world, and probably the best patent and tax lawyers too.

AlphaC
Nice analysis.
The shader count for the D500 might be a typo tho..."just" 10 shaders/stream processors difference, and a weird number that is not a multiple of 64...meh...
Think GCN cards are using 64 core units, so is hardly plausible:

Tahiti LE = 1536 stream processors or 24 GCN compute units
D500 = 1526 or? 23.84 compute units?
rolleyes.gif


The rest seem plausible: downclocked cards to fit into the 450W envelope for the new Mac Pro.
Tahiti LE is 256-bit memory bus, so unless they put the Tahiti LE on a Tahiti Pro/ Tahiti XT PCB, it's different

edit: block diagram


edit 2, Oct 25 : http://architosh.com/2013/10/the-mac-pro-so-whats-a-d300-d500-and-d700-anyway-we-have-answers/

a half baked article since it's Southern Islands not Southeast island.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

On the other hand you get quite a few disadvantages due to their push for thunderbolt display connectivity (limiting choices to Apple displays - doh, how original and revolutionary), or the use for adapters that will make the small size even more irrelevant.
"Thunderbolt combines PCI Express and DisplayPort into one high-speed, versatile I/O technology."
-- Apple, Mac Pro webpage

That means you can still use DisplayPort monitors too, just like you do with existing Apples that have Thunderbolt ports. There's no need for adapters either, just a mini-DP to mini-DP or DP cable. In fact you can even use mini-DP to DVI cables (I'm literally doing it right now).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikBe View Post

"Thunderbolt combines PCI Express and DisplayPort into one high-speed, versatile I/O technology."
-- Apple, Mac Pro webpage

That means you can still use DisplayPort monitors too, just like you do with existing Apples that have Thunderbolt ports. There's no need for adapters either, just a mini-DP to mini-DP or DP cable. In fact you can even use mini-DP to DVI cables (I'm literally doing it right now).
If that's the case, I stand corrected.
thumb.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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I agree with everything you have posted. However, in my eyes the real question is how they're offering two W8000s for $6000. It just doesn't add up. I am a custom computer manufacturer and I know how much these parts cost on wholesale, and even with volume discounts. The answer must be that AMD has either found a way to manufacture a better graphics platform for cheaper, or AMD is ripping us off more than we realize (and that includes me, a reseller!).
 

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Anyone who can make use of two Firepro cards is surely going to be hooking the Mac Pro up to a 30in+ monitor, most likely 3 or 4 of them, not to mention a few TB of storage. Space really isn't an issue, since you need a lot of space for a Digital Workstation anyway. it's more about looks.

Does it look "cool to have a boring, square tower in your encoding / rendering / 3D design room or does it look "cool" to have a little black cylinder trash can looking thing...

I think the people who will be spending $3k+ on one of these stupid things will care more about looking cool than what it actually does.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten98 View Post

Anyone who can make use of two Firepro cards is surely going to be hooking the Mac Pro up to a 30in+ monitor, most likely 3 or 4 of them, not to mention a few TB of storage. Space really isn't an issue, since you need a lot of space for a Digital Workstation anyway. it's more about looks.

Does it look "cool to have a boring, square tower in your encoding / rendering / 3D design room or does it look "cool" to have a little black cylinder trash can looking thing...

I think the people who will be spending $3k+ on one of these stupid things will care more about looking cool than what it actually does.
Somehow I agree with this
biggrin.gif
. Although we enthusiast can build a system of this caliber, would I buy one? Probably not, my CrossfireX 7970's say hello...
biggrin.gif
 
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