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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is a problem in the market today. There are very few mice that are really good and none that I, as a hardcore gamer would rate perfect. I realize I represent only about 5% of the market. But you should know that the rest of the buyers listen to me. When all my friends buy new hardware they ask me.

Hence I have made a list for you to follow when creating a new mouse. This mouse would cater to the real gamers. Please only use this list if you intend to create a mouse like the ie 3.0 or wmo that has been a topseller for 15 years (+).

A perfect mouse has:

Low weight. Below 90g.
Two or three different sizes. to cater to different grips.

A cord that is:
Light
Soft (or that will become soft within a few weeks)
Durable

A sensor that:
Has relatively high malfunction speed. 3m/s should be sufficient.
No positive or negative acceleration.
Perfect tracking on all surfaces.
Non-sensitive to dust.
Is stable and 100% consistent. It shouldnt be affected by a mousemat becoming sweaty, temperature or similar.

It should´nt require drivers.
5 button with the option to disable side buttons.

400-3000 dpi. (the high dpi might be needed on trimonitor setups in the future).

Nice grip. It needs to be high friction for both people with dry hands and sweaty hands. That probably means a rubbery grip (deathadder black edition or better) and a more shiny grip (steelseries sensei/xai ruse) choice.

You could also give us an option to, instead of using usb with delay and uneven pollingrates to create a pci-e card or another interface. Thereby creating 0 ms lag and non-uneven polling rate, or direct access like ps/2.

Chooseable size of micefeet.

High quality components.

Has upgradeable firmware and updates to go with it until its perfect.

Adjustable lift of distance. Lower is better.

Please discuss. If there is another suggestion thats good I´ll add it. Or if I missed something.
 

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To my knowledge, I think the RAT is the best fitted for this description.
But I kinda agree with sLowEnd, no company would make a good profit margin with this many options unless they were to sell it at possibly ~$200 starting point.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HybLeaf;15321681
To my knowledge, I think the RAT is the best fitted for this description.
No. The RAT mice have one of the worst sensor on the market.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HybLeaf;15321681
To my knowledge, I think the RAT is the best fitted for this description.
But I kinda agree with sLowEnd, no company would make a good profit margin with this many options unless they were to sell it at possibly ~$200 starting point.
The sensor doesn't fit and the R.A.T. series of mice is way too heavy.
 

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Best thing a mouse manufacturer can do is.
Use 1 sensor which is perfect for everyone's requirement.

A3090 + add good firmware + nice software.

Make 3 mice of same shape.

1st small version without any adjustment = Kinzu shape with 1 button extra on the top.

2nd medium size with side buttons with adjustable weights/ 80 gram without weights + can add upto 40 more grams. Xai/ Sensei / G500 etc

3rd all the features which can add grips for all comfort sizes and weights. G9x

Its not that hard is it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by sLowEnd;15321585
Different sizes and selectable mouse feet?

The amount of SKUs needed, and the fact that this is an enthusiast product means that no company will ever profit off this.
I dont think you have to create a whole new shape in order to have the option for different mousefeet. Some ingenious engineering should be enough.

I have a keyboard for ~200 euros. The reason I bought this very expensive thing is that its high quality, it will last me ages, and Im using it for 8-12 hours each day. I have my office at home. Same thing goes for a mouse that fills all my criteria, I could pay a neat sum in order to get one.

Btw, yea the avago 3090 seems the closest sensor to my specs. Maybe avaga 3668 if you can go around what I´m guessing is licensingissues.
 

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Different sizes are unnecessary. Just make 2 or 3 models (you like to do this anyway).

1) Small for finger tippers and players who don't need extra buttons. Very light weight. The MS basic optical mouse is very very light (a lot lighter than an Abyssus - considered light by most). It's a good weight.

2) Medium with extra buttons for claw grippers.

3) Larger with extra buttons for palm grippers.

Perfect sensor, 3 or 4 m/s malfunction speed, no prediction, works on all surfaces, low LOD. Optical capable of higher DPI for multi monitor setups - NO ACCELERATION!.

Durable. So important (RAZER!!!!!). I'd pay for a carbonfibre mouse if it was worth it (light/durability wise). Really the lighter the mouse the better as far as I'm concerned.

No lights (extra useless weight).

Cord that is durable, light, flexible, soft.

You have yourself an ideal potential mouse situation.

I also would pay a lot of money for a mouse that fit all these criteria. Even better would be a mouse with extra buttons, the right size (about Abyssus) and lightweight (even lighter than my MS optical basic).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HybLeaf;15321681
To my knowledge, I think the RAT is the best fitted for this description.
But I kinda agree with sLowEnd, no company would make a good profit margin with this many options unless they were to sell it at possibly ~$200 starting point.
Rat series of mice weigh almost 2x (actually do weigh 2x if you go wireless) the weight maximum specified - forget having a horrible sensor.
 

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On shape and sensor positioning:

Fingertip grip mice: Mouse should be shaped to allow a secure grip between thumb and pinky/ring finger. The back of the mouse should be short and low, so it's easy to hit both the bottom left and bottom right of the screen by pulling the mouse into different areas of your palm. Make a note of where the fingers contact the mouse, the sensor should be positioned in the center of this area(generally, between the front and middle of the mouse, just behind the scroll wheel) sensor alignment should be oriented to a wrist pivot point opposite the thumb.

Palm grip mice: Mouse should be shaped to fully support the hand. Sensor should be positioned at the center of the mouse, with the sensor oriented to an elbow or forearm pivot point.

Claw grip mice: Mouse should be shaped to allow a secure triangular grip between thumb, pinky, and the heel of the palm. Sensor should be positioned at the center of the mouse, oriented to an elbow/forearm pivot point.

Sensor type: Doesn't matter what tech it uses as long as it behaves consistently, no accel, and high PCS if it's set at low DPI, and a low LOD. Make sure it can achieve all of these on at least one good hardpad, and at least one good cloth pad. If the sensor is picky about it's surface, ship these pads with the mouse. No or optional angle snapping.

Drivers: Ideally you can walk into a LAN, plug the mouse into a computer of any OS, and have it behave exactly the same way it does at home, if you need specific OS settings to achieve that, include it in the manual.

Buttons: Should be programmable to switch profile or DPI, but should default to OS mouse button x, as for number and positioning:
Number of buttons: 3 is bare minimum for a budget mouse, 6-8 is ideal for a solid mouse that isn't entirely designed around how many buttons you can cram into it.

Primary, secondary, scroll wheel: the obvious, if you get creative here make sure it's damn solid and durable.
Thumb buttons: at least 2, more if it makes sense with the grip (2 above the natural grip point is normal, 1-2 below is also good, in front and in back might also be plausible, but don't sacrifice something else for this.
Other: Generally it's easy to hit 1 button in front and 2 in back of the scroll wheel.
Ring finger: a good place to put a modifier button that doubles the number of functions for some of the other buttons
Pinky: good place for a profile switching button, just don't put it where it will accidentally get hit.
 

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What was that talk about an extra interface for delay due to usb? With 1000Hz polling rate thats a delay of 1 ms. Your monitor refreshes slower
smile.gif
.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skar;15336877
What was that talk about an extra interface for delay due to usb? With 1000Hz polling rate thats a delay of 1 ms. Your monitor refreshes slower
smile.gif
.
Most LCD monitors refresh at 60 Hz, but that means even at reasonable sensitivities your cursor can move >50 pixels between frames. That's not enough precision for a reflexive click, so I suppose the mouse needs to update much faster than the screen. Exactly how much faster depends on the player, but I think 1kHz is plenty.
 

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I don't get why everyone thinks we all play CS, all that low dpi low button thing clearly is the tendency here. There's a lot of WoW and other MMORPG gamers that benefit from those Naga or SS WoW Cataclysm insanities (not my case) with lots of buttons.
Plus, I'm a high sens player, probably wouldn't buy a mouse with less than 4000 DPI which is what I find better suited for me at 1980x1080 1:1 sensitivity. I play mainly LoL and some shooters (where I switch constantly the sensitivity on the fly from 2000 to 4000) and high DPI allows you to move to screen edges or turn arround really fast and effortlessly while you can still aim precisely by moving the mouse with your fingertips... of course is a different style but really...
What is wrong with the Avago 9500 ? I don't really see why the 3090 gets that much attention... The 9500 already has high enough linearity range and malfunction speed and offers greater DPI and works on cloth.
 

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The 9500 has funny acceleration, and if a tiny amount of dust gets on the sensor it all but stops working until it is removed. This appears to be a limitation of laser technology, the cross section of the beam is small so blocking it is easy.

I'd make some post about what my perfect mouse would look like but I'm in the process of making it. Deathadder 1800 guts + my own shell.
Quote:
Chooseable size of micefeet.
Why? This would actually be doable pretty easily by having pits that can fit multiple shapes, but I don't see the benefit.
 

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Quote:


Originally Posted by Conditioned
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Two or three different sizes. to cater to different grips.

extra tooling --> extra costs

Quote:


A cord that is:
Light
Soft
Durable

You wan't the benefits of different kinds of cordes in one, even if possible it will be more expensive.

Quote:


A sensor that:
Has relatively high malfunction speed. 3m/s should be sufficient.
No positive or negative acceleration.
Perfect tracking on all surfaces.
Non-sensitive to dust.
Is stable and 100% consistent. It shouldnt be affected by a mousemat becoming sweaty, temperature or similar.

You are limited to the available sensors, manufacturers can't do much about it.

Quote:


It should´nt require drivers.

Agreed, but ...

Quote:


You could also give us an option to, instead of using usb with delay and uneven pollingrates to create a pci-e card or another interface. Thereby creating 0 ms lag and non-uneven polling rate, or direct access like ps/2.

... doesn't work well with that.


Quote:


Chooseable size of micefeet.

I don't see the need for that and it would increase weight.
 
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