Overclock.net banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi folks,
So my i7-4790K was acting funny (suddenly going to BSOD), for the last 4 or 5 weeks. Then today, I pushed 'das bootun' and noting happened... I mean nothing. I've established pretty quickly that it's not the PSU (Corsair 1000i) and not the front panel buttons. The MSI Z97 MPower MAX AC mobo has an on-board on/off button (for bench testing) and it can start the system without going through the front panel connections.

I did try all the usual things like switching over to the 2nd bios option on the mobo ("Bios B"), but no cigar. It's very likely that the problem is a CPU, (almost a sure thing). OK, so I was going to upgrade my system anyway and now I can justify the cost. However, I haven't been keeping up with the latest Intel technology and I'm pressed for time.

I need a new motherboard, CPU and I'm probably going to need a couple of RAM sticks to match it. It's important that the mobo can take at least 6 internally mounted SSD's (that's what the MSI Z97 presently has mounted), and can fit in my present Corsair 780T case. Oh, and it would be great if it has a multi-bios, (in case one dropped out), like my MSI Z97 has.

Of course, I need the performance to be as good, if not better than the MSI Z97. When I ran my i7-4790K for 'everyday use', I ran it at 4.7GHz. I'm a flight-sim hobbyist with 10 years of 3rd-party add-ons so I had to run the overclock to 4.9GHz when I flew.

However, for the past 1.5 years, I only turned it up to 4.8GHz because it wasn't staying stable very well at 4.9. All my system specs are available for anyone who wants to see them. Just click on that avatar. I need a better, faster CPU anyway and the last time I read up on it was about a month ago.

I found that the i9-9900K seemed like my best bet. I really don't need the built in graphics but I can't find a 9900 without it.

SO.... That's the deal. I need a good upper-mid-level mobo that can take the I9-9900K, (is "i9-9900F" the model number for the one w/o built-in graphics?). I would really like for it to take 6 internal SSD's, (and be able to run them without have to make some sort of switch-out), but if I must, I'll compromise. Also, a switch for multi-bios (not a 'must-have' but I would prefer it).

Are there any experienced people that think they can direct me to the mobo I need, or at least, narrow it down to 2 or 3 choices? By "experienced" I mean someone who has either had, or presently haves, the mobo they think would be a good choice, and has at least 3 or 4+ years of building and OC experience behind them.
Thank you,
Rich
PS I don't know why it keeps showing a Samsung SSD in my system specs (it's not in the list that I can edit, but it shows up anyway...), but I don't have one of those. I have 3 Crucials, 2 Plextors, and 1 Kingston as far as internally mounted SSD's and 1 Seagate Hybrid 1TB. FWIW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
OK, so far I think I've changed to go with the Intel Core i7-9700K. It's not the price difference (compared to the 9900K), but the comparisons on line stress that there's very little (1 to 5%), increase in performance when you rate them for how they do in a gaming environment.

I'm not a gamer per se, but the flight sim that I spent a lot of time building with 3rd party add-ons is in that category. Therefore, I’m now targeting the i7-9700K.

Now on to the motherboard. I see an ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero that looks very good but preliminary info isn’t saying how many SSD’s it can take and run at one time.

My MSI Z97 MPower MAX AC had 7 drives connected (6 internal and 1 hybrid external), and I could still run flash cards and USB thumb drives too. I will eventually start moving data to those M2’s but right now I need those SATA connections to keep my 6 drives and a disc reader/burner.

I don’t have much time and I have yet to see what MSI has to offer. I’m not worried about the price but I do need the performance to match or beat my present MSI MPower MAX AC.

Any suggestions as to what mobos I might want to check out would be helpful, (time is a factor and I hate making rash decisions on this stuff, but… no choice.)
Thanks,
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Most importantly what is your budget? Did you know your GPU matters more than your CPU for flight simulators?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
...Well, maybe I should look at the LGA1200 sockets, huh? This Intel Core i7-10700 is 4cores/8threads and turbo to 4.8GHz. What bothers me is that I always thought the "k" at the end of the Intel CPUs meant they had Hyper-thread tech.

This is the very first consideration that I'm giving the latest Intel 10th generation CPUs. The last time I read anything on that generation unit, it was about the i9-10900K and how there were no mobos that could deal with it. In addition, there was something I recall about its over the top heat.

I have liquid cooling with a 240mm radiator (about .875" thick) located on the top of the 780T case, and I looped in a 140mm radiator in the front (about 1.25" thick). Both with push/pull fans. Even then, the 4790K (that finally gave out), would still hit over 50-52C at 4.8GHz.

If I go with the LGA1200 socket and an i7-10700, I was thinking of maybe this ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula Z490 mobo. I can get it for about $440 to $500. Damn, it appears I'm going to have to take the time to find out which boards can handle as many SATA drives as my z97 MPower MAX AC could. It had 8 SATA 3.0 hard drive slots.

I think my MSI mobo had 10 chokes. I've always understood that the more chokes the mobo had, the better it could OC a CPU. Now, I'm not sure about anything anymore.
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Sorry to repeat myself but what is your budget? Did you know CPU is not important for your stated use case of flight simulators?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
I see an ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero that looks very good but preliminary info isn’t saying how many SSD’s it can take and run at one time.

I have the Maximus Hero WIFI board, there are 8 SATA ports and 2 M.2/NVME slots. So if your 6 SSDs are SATA you should be good with that board:thumb:
 

·
Rig Advisor
Joined
·
1,986 Posts
Hi folks,
So my i7-4790K was acting funny (suddenly going to BSOD), for the last 4 or 5 weeks. Then today, I pushed 'das bootun' and noting happened... I mean nothing. I've established pretty quickly that it's not the PSU (Corsair 1000i) and not the front panel buttons. The MSI Z97 MPower MAX AC mobo has an on-board on/off button (for bench testing) and it can start the system without going through the front panel connections.

I did try all the usual things like switching over to the 2nd bios option on the mobo ("Bios B"), but no cigar. It's very likely that the problem is a CPU, (almost a sure thing). OK, so I was going to upgrade my system anyway and now I can justify the cost. However, I haven't been keeping up with the latest Intel technology and I'm pressed for time.

I need a new motherboard, CPU and I'm probably going to need a couple of RAM sticks to match it. It's important that the mobo can take at least 6 internally mounted SSD's (that's what the MSI Z97 presently has mounted), and can fit in my present Corsair 780T case. Oh, and it would be great if it has a multi-bios, (in case one dropped out), like my MSI Z97 has.

Of course, I need the performance to be as good, if not better than the MSI Z97. When I ran my i7-4790K for 'everyday use', I ran it at 4.7GHz. I'm a flight-sim hobbyist with 10 years of 3rd-party add-ons so I had to run the overclock to 4.9GHz when I flew.

However, for the past 1.5 years, I only turned it up to 4.8GHz because it wasn't staying stable very well at 4.9. All my system specs are available for anyone who wants to see them. Just click on that avatar. I need a better, faster CPU anyway and the last time I read up on it was about a month ago.

I found that the i9-9900K seemed like my best bet. I really don't need the built in graphics but I can't find a 9900 without it.

SO.... That's the deal. I need a good upper-mid-level mobo that can take the I9-9900K, (is "i9-9900F" the model number for the one w/o built-in graphics?). I would really like for it to take 6 internal SSD's, (and be able to run them without have to make some sort of switch-out), but if I must, I'll compromise. Also, a switch for multi-bios (not a 'must-have' but I would prefer it).

Are there any experienced people that think they can direct me to the mobo I need, or at least, narrow it down to 2 or 3 choices? By "experienced" I mean someone who has either had, or presently haves, the mobo they think would be a good choice, and has at least 3 or 4+ years of building and OC experience behind them.
Thank you,
Rich
PS I don't know why it keeps showing a Samsung SSD in my system specs (it's not in the list that I can edit, but it shows up anyway...), but I don't have one of those. I have 3 Crucials, 2 Plextors, and 1 Kingston as far as internally mounted SSD's and 1 Seagate Hybrid 1TB. FWIW

This board has served me and my 9900K well. Currently using it and have had no issues 179$. https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Prime-Z390-Tarjeta-generación/dp/B07HCY7K9L/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=asus+z390-a&qid=1597338152&sr=8-1

The P variant can be had for 132$ and is currently being used in my folding rig. Again no issues. https://www.amazon.com/Prime-Z390-P-LGA1151-Intel-Motherboard/dp/B07HCT5GBD/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=asus+z390-p&dchild=1&keywords=asus+z390-p&pd_rd_i=B07HCT5GBD&pd_rd_r=83f7053d-3a81-4b1d-b0ef-27d8efb957d7&pd_rd_w=hVzu1&pd_rd_wg=8EztP&pf_rd_p=13bf9bc7-d68d-44c3-9d2e-647020f56802&pf_rd_r=8FDH3R0QWWKV0V9Q0J8J&psc=1&qid=1597338196&sr=1-1-791c2399-d602-4248-afbb-8a79de2d236f

Not sure about the multiple BIOS option, but it can run 6 SSD's no problem.
 

·
LTSC for life crew
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
...Well, maybe I should look at the LGA1200 sockets, huh? This Intel Core i7-10700 is 4cores/8threads and turbo to 4.8GHz. What bothers me is that I always thought the "k" at the end of the Intel CPUs meant they had Hyper-thread tech.

This is the very first consideration that I'm giving the latest Intel 10th generation CPUs. The last time I read anything on that generation unit, it was about the i9-10900K and how there were no mobos that could deal with it. In addition, there was something I recall about its over the top heat.

I have liquid cooling with a 240mm radiator (about .875" thick) located on the top of the 780T case, and I looped in a 140mm radiator in the front (about 1.25" thick). Both with push/pull fans. Even then, the 4790K (that finally gave out), would still hit over 50-52C at 4.8GHz.

If I go with the LGA1200 socket and an i7-10700, I was thinking of maybe this ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula Z490 mobo. I can get it for about $440 to $500. Damn, it appears I'm going to have to take the time to find out which boards can handle as many SATA drives as my z97 MPower MAX AC could. It had 8 SATA 3.0 hard drive slots.

I think my MSI mobo had 10 chokes. I've always understood that the more chokes the mobo had, the better it could OC a CPU. Now, I'm not sure about anything anymore.
Rich
The "K" at the end of the intel CPU means it is unlocked for overclocking and has nothing to do with hyper-threading.

The LGA1200 socket is superior to the alternatives mentioned so far and will allow for significantly better options down the road.

The i7-10700 is an excellent choice for your needs. It is an 8 core/16 thread processor and is not unlocked for overclocking.

The number of SATA ports on a potential motherboard is often dictated by whether or not the motherboard features an NVMe drive slot. If it does feature this drive slot, then one of the SATA ports will be disabled in the BIOS or completely omitted from the board on some models.

The Asus ROG Maximumus XII Formula Z490 motherboard is a good solid model. This will do what you want it to do for you.

Have you looked into SATA add in cards? The very common solution for adding 8 SATA drives all connected to a single motherboard is via a PCI-Express SATA add in card. There are high quality add in cards available new for around $25.

There you go, I am qualified according to your standards and have even bolded the important bits like you appear to prefer. :thumb:
 

·
Rig Advisor
Joined
·
1,986 Posts
Honestly, what is your budget, if you don't have a few hundo's, consider just replacing the board and staying on the 1150 socket until the next gen of CPUs comes out. Try clearing CMOS on your old board first to make sure it really is fried.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Most importantly what is your budget? Did you know your GPU matters more than your CPU for flight simulators?
(least of importance is budget, as far as I'm concerned)

In fact, that's just the opposite for MS FSX. As a FSX hobbyist for over 10 years, I can assure you that when you bring in the thousands I've spent on hi-res, 3rd party, add-ons to the FSX platform, all the GPU's you can fit in your case won't help nearly as much as a fast cored, CPU.

MS FSX is notorious for this and it's well publicized. MS FSX has always been known for it's unusual, convoluted, code and when Lockheed Martin bought it from MS, they had to polish it for years for their P3D platform. They still have the base code but have been rewriting it with each passing year, I'm sure.

Now MS has a new flight sim coming and if it's half as good as they say, it'll likely be more in line with today's games. Hence, the GPU may be more involved. I plan to keep FSX because I've invested so much money in it over that 10 years that it would be unthinkable to throw it all away. The GPU I presently have is plenty for FSX but when the new MS sim comes out, I'll look at bumping that piece of hardware up.

However, I do plan to check the new flight sim when MS finally does release it. Therefore, I'm about one or two hours away from finalizing a decision and right now, it looks like I will be going with the LGA1200 socket. I'm almost sure at this point that I'll be buying the i7-10700 and the ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula Z490 mobo.

I don't have a budget. I'll buy whatever I need to buy in order to keep a fast CPU, fast. Preferably, at least one core should hit 5GHz and I want to have the ability to manually overclock the system rather than use the "Turbo". That's just because I don't understand the Turbo OC configurations. For some reason, they seem to turn things on that would otherwise want to be off for targeted performance increases.

Frankly, I've been building and overclocking my systems for years but I definitely will admit that I have several 'blind-spots' when it comes to the process. Most of the reasons for that come from contradicting articles, reviews, and user posts.

Thanks,
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I have the Maximus Hero WIFI board, there are 8 SATA ports and 2 M.2/NVME slots. So if your 6 SSDs are SATA you should be good with that board:thumb:
Thank you for that info! :) I think the Hero is an LGA1151 so I need to see if they have the same version in an LGA1200 socket. That's because I'm leaning toward the i7-10700/k. I was looking at this ASUS board: ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula Z490 mobo but it was very late last night so I want to look at it again.

In fact, I'm about to do that now but I wanted to stop by here and see what kind of suggestions I could find.
Thanks again,
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
The "K" at the end of the intel CPU means it is unlocked for overclocking and has nothing to do with hyper-threading.

The LGA1200 socket is superior to the alternatives mentioned so far and will allow for significantly better options down the road.

The i7-10700 is an excellent choice for your needs. It is an 8 core/16 thread processor and is not unlocked for overclocking.

The number of SATA ports on a potential motherboard is often dictated by whether or not the motherboard features an NVMe drive slot. If it does feature this drive slot, then one of the SATA ports will be disabled in the BIOS or completely omitted from the board on some models.

The Asus ROG Maximumus XII Formula Z490 motherboard is a good solid model. This will do what you want it to do for you.

Have you looked into SATA add in cards? The very common solution for adding 8 SATA drives all connected to a single motherboard is via a PCI-Express SATA add in card. There are high quality add in cards available new for around $25.

There you go, I am qualified according to your standards and have even bolded the important bits like you appear to prefer. :thumb:
Outstanding!:specool: In fact, I found the LGA1200 version of the Hero that 'smilinjohn' mentioned. It's the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) LGA 1200. It's got 14 caps and can take all the drives as well. It runs about $400 and has at least two M2 slots. Your suggestion about the add-in cards is great! I completely forgot about those!

I do plan to make my way toward the M2 drives but I've got to read up on them. From what I've read so far, using an M2 slot disables at least one SATA connection. The last time I rad about them, I recall they were very fast but they were twice the cost of an equal capacity SSD. However, then something came in that had to do with those slots and muddied up the waters for me (I can't recall what it was right now).

I got so confused that I just jumped out of the idea altogether. Right now, it's about getting the computer back up and running so the CPU, mobo, and RAM are the three things I'm focusing on. I've got about an hour before I decide but it looks like I'm going to go with the LGA1200 socket and I'm going to see if I can get an i7-10700K. I'm going to compare that Hero mobo with the Maximus. (I think the hero has built in wifi).
Thanks,
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Most importantly what is your budget? Did you know your GPU matters more than your CPU for flight simulators?
(least of importance is budget, as far as I'm concerned)

In fact, that's just the opposite for MS FSX. As a FSX hobbyist for over 10 years, I can assure you that when you bring in the thousands I've spent on hi-res, 3rd party, add-ons to the FSX platform, all the GPU's you can fit in your case won't help nearly as much as a fast cored, CPU.

MS FSX is notorious for this and it's well publicized. MS FSX has always been known for it's unusual, convoluted, code and when Lockheed Martin bought it from MS, they had to polish it for years for their P3D platform. They still have the base code but have been rewriting it with each passing year, I'm sure.

Now MS has a new flight sim coming and if it's half as good as they say, it'll likely be more in line with today's games. Hence, the GPU may be more involved. I plan to keep FSX because I've invested so much money in it over that 10 years that it would be unthinkable to throw it all away. The GPU I presently have is plenty for FSX but when the new MS sim comes out, I'll look at bumping that piece of hardware up.

However, I do plan to check the new flight sim when MS finally does release it. Therefore, I'm about one or two hours away from finalizing a decision and right now, it looks like I will be going with the LGA1200 socket. I'm almost sure at this point that I'll be buying the i7-10700 and the ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula Z490 mobo.

I don't have a budget. I'll buy whatever I need to buy in order to keep a fast CPU, fast. Preferably, at least one core should hit 5GHz and I want to have the ability to manually overclock the system rather than use the "Turbo". That's just because I don't understand the Turbo OC configurations. For some reason, they seem to turn things on that would otherwise want to be off for targeted performance increases.

Frankly, I've been building and overclocking my systems for years but I definitely will admit that I have several 'blind-spots' when it comes to the process. Most of the reasons for that come from contradicting articles, reviews, and user posts.

Thanks,
Rich
It sounds like money is not an object, but you don’t see a reason to buy an even more expensive CPU if it doesn’t help performance. Hence why you are getting a 10700k instead of a 10900k. However you don’t know for sure how well the game scales with cores. A week from now there will be CPU performance comparisons for FS 2020. Why not wait a week before buying parts? After all, a 10 core or 18 core may perform better than an 8 core.

Also, how long you have been building computers means absolutely nothing. I’ve been overclocking since Buildzoid was in diapers but that doesn’t make me a better overclockers. As with anything. I have also been driving longer than some of the younger F1 drivers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Honestly, what is your budget, if you don't have a few hundo's, consider just replacing the board and staying on the 1150 socket until the next gen of CPUs comes out. Try clearing CMOS on your old board first to make sure it really is fried.
Thanks Avacado, but money isn't an issue. I'm checking out the rest of the replies in this thread and then I'm going to go buy something. As it stands, I'll be going with the i7-10700K, and the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) LGA 1200. I haven't decided on the RAM yet but I'm thinking two sticks @ 16GB each.

I'm looking at the G-Skill RipJaws, which is what I was running in my old system. Of course, they were DDR3. RAM has always been a sore-spot for me. I never could really assess how much they contributed to my day to day applications. I'm an armature photographer and work with large, hi-res still images in RAW files.

I render them to tiffs when I'm through working with them. I don't really do the conventional kind of photography. I typically do photo-art stuff, so I start with an image I shot but when I'm through, it's quite different (like hand painting them, altering perspective, etc.).
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Sorry to repeat myself but what is your budget? Did you know CPU is not important for your stated use case of flight simulators?
Thanks O451, I did reply, but I wasn't able to get back to this thread until an hour ago. As I said in my initial response, money isn't a problem. I also explained how FSX is a CPU intensive program. A GPU would help but the main player in FSX is, and has always been the CPU. It's a very well publicized characteristic and you can be sure that when you include all the hi-res add-ons that I have purchased over the past 10 years, no store-bought desktop or laptop would be able to run it.

It takes a fast CPU, (preferably 4.9GHz+), to maintain 32fps when flying at mach 1.5, in an F4, at 500 feet above the ground, water, cities, etc. No GPU would help like a 5.1 CPU would. ;)
Thanks,
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
It sounds like money is not an object, but you don’t see a reason to buy an even more expensive CPU if it doesn’t help performance. Hence why you are getting a 10700k instead of a 10900k. However you don’t know for sure how well the game scales with cores. A week from now there will be CPU performance comparisons for FS 2020. Why not wait a week before buying parts? After all, a 10 core or 18 core may perform better than an 8 core.

Also, how long you have been building computers means absolutely nothing. I’ve been overclocking since Buildzoid was in diapers but that doesn’t make me a better overclockers. As with anything. I have also been driving longer than some of the younger F1 drivers.
No, I have to disagree with you there O451. I'll take experience over a degree any day. I know scientists that pin there degree on their collar and yet doesn't know half of what the guy who's been out there doing the nuts & bolts research, knows. Experience makes one an "expert" A degree only offers a foundation for which one can more quickly build their experience on.

The F1 requires more than just experience, it requires physical conditioning and endurance. I'm not an F1 driver, (though I was a professional driver for 5 years as an OTR/48 trucks), but I can relate to my experience in drumming. I've played the drums since I was 7 or 8 and I'm 64 now.

I can say that I can't do many things that I used to be able to do because my hands (and particularly my fingers), just won't let me. It's that 'age-thing' that you just can't escape. So experience is limited in those respects. I hate the fact that I can't do much of the physical things I once could, and did. All the exercising you can think of will not help certain parts in the body at a certain point in time.

No torturing of small animals, no bear paws, rhino horn dust, snake blood, or all those other ridiculous remedies will help either. Not any more than a few select, quality, vitamins.

As far as the 10900 is concerned, the increase in performance is 1% to 5% at best, over the others, (or at least, that's what's coming from the general reviews). In addition, most games barely go beyond 1 or 2 cores and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

The MS FSX only uses one core but I have to admit, as much as I like the suggestion of waiting for that new sim, I really can't. I do other work on that system as well and only have had time to fly once or twice a month, lately.

I appreciate the help and I didn't know MS was planning to release that sim soon. I'm not going to count the days because they made announcements of releasing it at least twice in the past two years, but then it never happened.
Thanks again,
Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
960 Posts
Thanks Avacado, but money isn't an issue. I'm checking out the rest of the replies in this thread and then I'm going to go buy something. As it stands, I'll be going with the i7-10700K, and the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) LGA 1200. I haven't decided on the RAM yet but I'm thinking two sticks @ 16GB each.

I'm looking at the G-Skill RipJaws, which is what I was running in my old system. Of course, they were DDR3. RAM has always been a sore-spot for me. I never could really assess how much they contributed to my day to day applications. I'm an armature photographer and work with large, hi-res still images in RAW files.

I render them to tiffs when I'm through working with them. I don't really do the conventional kind of photography. I typically do photo-art stuff, so I start with an image I shot but when I'm through, it's quite different (like hand painting them, altering perspective, etc.).
Rich
F4-3200C14D-32GTZR are good samsung b-die sticks at the right price or F4-3600C16D-32GTZR if you just want to XMP it
 

·
Overclocker in training
Joined
·
13,011 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thank you avacado! I looked at both earlier and I need to go back and see how many capacitors they have in them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top