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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After all the reading up i have done on the new structure of things i am on the understanding that the LLC is the vdroop controller on the mobo and nothing else am i correct ?
If that is the case. Is LLC specific to the mobo or specific to the clock ?
The reason i ask is atm i have to have it set at normal/regular which is 25% with my settings for 4.6 @ 1.37 with a vdroop of around -0.012 ish (it fluctuates a lot) but if i set the LLC to High then i can up to a vdroop of PLUS 0.03 taking my vcore to 1.40 and higher in some cases.
So what i am trying to establish is if its mobo specific then i can keep the LLc the same for all clock settings or is it the case of how high ur clock is to how much the vdroop fluctuates for example having an LLC setting to ultra for me gives me a vdroop (vRISE lol) of around 0.05 which is highly extreme but does this get lesser the higher clock you go ?
 

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LLC is the level of voltage drop your cpu gos under in windows. LLC ranges from levels 1-10, off-extreme, etc etc the name varies depending on your motherboard.

As far as im aware LLC does not matter how high your overclock is, i.e if your at 4.0ghz your LLC might cause your voltage to drop from 1.38 to 1.35 from bios to windows, it will do the same if you try running it at 5.0ghz.

Setting LLC level too low will make your voltages fluctuate too much, setting LLC too high will make your voltage too low. The best LLC level you can have is the one that makes your cpu vcore in windows as close to what you set in bios when the chip is at full load.

On my/your motherboard that setting is Ultra High.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So my instability of anything over 4.5 is more than likely because i have this set to medium ?
But if i turn LLC to ultra the voltage shoots way above what i set in stock, not for long but more so than the droop, this is very tricky as i am having great trouble getting it stable over 4.5 @ 1.36 with llc at medium which is my most stable triumph so far
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or is my view on the bios Vcore out of sync to what it actually is, hmmmm
 

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How do you mean instability? What happens exactly when you go over 4.5ghz?

Load Line Calibration adjusts the amount of cpu vdroop in windows, vdroop is the perfectly normal process wherein a certain amount of voltage is 'dropped' from the cpu in windows to protect it from damage caused by voltage spikes. Basically in bios you might set cpu vcore to 1.400v, but in windows you might see 1.36v. You have a voltage drop of 0.04v. LLC can help to reduce the amount of voltage drop in windows. With LLC the aim of the game is to get the cpu voltage in windows as close as possible to what you set in bios when the cpu is under full load. You will need to test each LLC level to determine which best helps you get as little voltage drop as possible. Fluctuations are normal when using LLC, and you can expect the voltage to jump by several increments at full load.

Just coped that from the 2500k overclocking guide in my sig
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I know there are lots of guides around, i have been reading them non stop for the past 3-4 months lol and some of them conflict with each other so its hard to tell.
When i mean instability, it keeps failing on prime95 blend test as my goal was really the 48 multi part but with llc on medium i had to go up to 1.45 and still it was unstable, 47 multi on the other hand would still fail or bsod on prime blend but at a longer interval with around the same volts and to me seems too much of an increase from 45xmulti at 1.3

4.6 is what i am currently working on since 47/48 has failed me and even on 4.6 @ 1.42 is still failing prime yet i am very stable on 4.5 @1.36. with medium LLC that is

The ultra setting in LLC i tried to stay clear off but after nearly everyone says be on ultra, so i am now testing 4.6 with 1.4v, yes the vdroop is pretty much gone, it only drops to 1.392 but spikes to 1.425 which can be worrying if ur close to the 1.52v line which i plan on doing when my rasa block gets here. My temps have yet to go above 65.
 

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If your cpu voltage in windows is going over what you set in bios when your cpu is at full load, you need to adjust the LLC level.

Q: Prime95 crashes during testing, X amount of workers fail during testing, I get Blue Screen Of Death (BSOD) code 0x124/0x101 while testing.
A:
X Amount of worker fails - Increase CPU vcore slightly, this is usually a sign of getting close to stability.
Prime95 crashes during testing - Attempt to increase CPU vcore, if not adjust PLL voltage.
BSOD 0x101 - Increase CPU vcore.
BSOD 0x124 - I hate this BSOD with a passion, easily the most difficult problem to overcome when overclocking Sandy Bridge cpu's due to the fact there's no easy answer. Firstly you need to establish if you have changed memory settings, PLL voltage or any power saving features. If you have changed or overclocked your memory, try putting it back to stock or underclock it whilst you stabilize your cpu. If you have changed the PLL voltage, unfortunately your gonna have to start from either the highest (1.9v) or lowest (1.5/6v) setting and work your way up or down and see if testing becomes stable. This can take a while as you should go up in single increments at a time. Lastly if you have disabled power saving feeatures, try turning them back on or changing different combinations, i.e have C1e on but C3/C6 off.

Also taken from my guide lol
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You have the wrong idea. LLC is a solution, not a problem. Oversimplified explanation follows.

When a load is applied in an electrical circuit, voltage drops. This results in two effects that are commonly noticed by the enthusiast user: VDrop and VDroop. First, when you tell your mainboard to apply a certain voltage to the processor, a small amount of that is lost before it is measured. This is why you see a lower voltage in Windows than what you set in BIOS; the circuit itself takes a small amount of the current and converts it is lost as heat. Then, when you apply a load to your processor by running a program, even more of the voltage is lost. This is because a greater amount of current is flowing through the circuit and is lost as heat.

LLC is mainboard manufacturers' response to what some have called the VDrop / VDroop 'problem.' When the mainboard measures that the voltage is lower than what you ask for, it increases the voltage in response. Thus it is a solution, not a problem.

There's a whole other discussion that can be had regarding the positive and negative effects of LLC, but I don't think that's what you're after. I'll share my view if you'd like, but I'll spare you the unsolicited advice and just respond to your original question.

The phenomenon that you're experiencing is that your mainboard is overcompensating when it detects a drop in the circuit voltage, thereby raising it to higher than you requested. Since each manufacturer chooses to implement LLC in a different way, the only solution is to adjust the settings until it's doing what you think you want it to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok i understand that aspect thanks but the spikes i get upwards as short as the time span is but in frequent intervals is not much to worry about ? say for example i was running 1.52 thru the bios and the chip is actually seeing about 1.51 but the spikes could be up to 1.55+, as one thing i noticed is the higher the volts is the bigger the spike but in the long term the cpu gets the closest amount of volts in all but how much damage would these spikes do. It is the spike upwards i am more concerned about.
 

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Yes, the spikes are a concern, especially with a 32nm chip. I haven't researched the problem in a while, but from what I remember, LLC will cause spikes, not cure them. It has to do with the mainboards ability to vary voltage on the fly in response to system load. What happens if you run with no LLC at all?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BSOD 1204 on anything over 4.4, with 4.5 i have to use 25%, having to use 75% with 4.6 and up so far but with 4.6 the spikes are only +0.01v its when i hit 4.7 and 4.8 the spikes are worse. I may just bin this chip for another or settle for 4.6 but it seems pointless with a wc setup and being at 58deg

Its since i have been taking advantage of that speed step because if i turn that off and set the manual volts in i can hit whats in my rig 4.6 12hours prime stable but so far its taking 1.4v for 4.6 with speedstep.
I want to squeeze every last stable ounce out of this cpu lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I overlooked the C3 and C6 as they was enabled from my pre 4.6 test and my PLL was down to 1.45 so turned them off and revamped my PLL to 1.65.
After re-reading them threads and after a few succesful short benchies, i am now back down to 1.38 for 4.6, running a blend prime test now for my sleepies so hopefully if all goes well, i can drop it back to 1.37 and be stable then re do it all again for 4.8 when my rasa block comes as i am on ocz hydroflow block which is 5-8 deg hotter and not really for the i3/i5/i7 series imo (more designed for the E series).
Cheers for all you're help and contributions.
 
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