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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

I'm switching from an OC'd FX8320 to Intel in the comming days, but I'm in a dillema.

I have 4x4GB DDR3 already.

I can't decide whether to go for 4790k and keep the DDR3 in that system or go DDR4 with 6700k. I'd like to point out that I'm going to overclock the system and I expect 4.5GHz from it, so along with the CPU you can recommend me a motherboard in the 130-150eur range.

The PC is 50% for gaming and 50% for programming android apps and PHP apps, so nothing demanding on that side but speed is a must.

I've read a lot of reviews and comparisons and still can't find a valid point to get a 6700k instead of 4790k, and the difference between the two is 10EUR from where I'm getting them. Friends say to go with 6700k and DDR4 since it's newer tech.

Advices please?
 

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6700k setup for sure. Simple reason. Latest and greatest. Along with finding parts easily in the near future. 4790k mobo's etc wont have much of a choice now a days and in the near future.
 

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Well, if you plan to keep the system for a long time, you are better off with the 6700K, if silicon lottery turns on your favor you could get a nice overclock.As for the motherboard, i don't know but sure a Z170.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yeah, I plan on keeping it at least 2-3 years (the CPU and mobo). I'll check more in-depth about the differences between the two but probably will go for 6700k, since the price difference is only 10eur and the mobos are probably the same price, I see a lot of z170's for ~150eur. Just need to find one that overclocks nicely.

Are 10 phases enough for OCing? In AMD it was 8+2 and it was great overclocking with it, and I don't know how much cooling the VRM part needs for that, but as I can see achieving 4.5GHz isn't hard on any of these CPUs.

Only other investment is DDR4, and I plan on getting only 2x4GB since I really don't need more.
 

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If you go with a 4790k build, which is still a strong setup, you will have a hard time finding a decent 1150 motherboard.
That's why I also vote 6700k, and the main reason is that you have a much better motherboard selection and also DDR4 prices are fairly low. I think its time to ditch the DDR3 setup and go for DDR4. The 6700k prices have finally stabilized, a few times I've seen sellers on Ebay offer the 6700k for 309.99-319.99 which is a good deal unlike before with the $400+ whack BS prices for mainstream i7.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well... there is some "tax evasion" with which I can get a 4790k for 310EUR and 6700k for 320EUR. That's pretty low considering in local shops in Belgrade they are around 500$. Main problem is they are really close in price, everywhere. I think it'd be fair to drop the prices of 4790k to somewhere near 250EUR to make it worth.

Anyway, is the performance per MHz any better @ skylake comparing those two? Or is it just "new factory smell" that I'll be getting?
smile.gif
 

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Skylake for sure. 5-10% faster per clock + higher speed DDR4 will make a decent jump in gains. Skylake also has no FIVR(never liked this..) + BCLK isn't linked to all those random frequencies allowing for BCLK adjustment in addition to the multiplier.

Just sell the DDR3.
 

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the average IPC according to anandtech was 6% so a 4.8GHz SKL is the same or slightly fast than a 5GHz HW on average.

a 4.8 GHz HW build will be cheaper but a tad slower and no DDR4. So its all about how much you want to spend and how badly you need/ want the best
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks guys, a bunch. You made this a no-brainer, I will go with Skylake. It's not "getting" the best, actually when I'm spending a lot of money on something I don't want to be in a situation "will it be able to do that?", I like to start an app/play a game and know it's gonna work without issues. And also be futureproof for the next 2-3 years or so. I usually upgrade every 4 years on average but most of my AMD hardware failed - and it was the first time I had experience with AMD. My sabertooth 990fx died, my R9 270x died... I'd like to go back to blue and green and see how their stuff goes.

If I get the Skylake system and the new GPU I'm left with a half-functioning 8 core AMD system which still runs well but the GPU works underclocked and the CPU doesn't OC well (4.3GHz "stable") on a spare board I have so it doesn't suit my needs. Also got a spare case so I'll just need to get another PSU for it when I get some spare money and I'll have another fine working PC. I need something reliable and everything I'm going to get has 3 year warranty.

Anyways, I got a couple of more questions since I find some mixed reviews on the web. Does DDR4 frequency really matter that much, like on that article in this thread? I'll be using a single GPU (probably a GTX970 or GTX1060) so that bothers me since they show some massive FPS drops. I play on 1080p 60Hz, so nothing special is needed, but I like to get the stable 60FPS.

Also, I've took a look at z170 mobos. Asus is still my favourite, and I'm deciding between Z170-A and the Sabertooth Z170 S (the version without armor), and love the fan option for VRMs. I have a CM Stryker white case and like to keep the black/white color scheme so Sabertooth looks super awesome for the build. But from the reviews, I can't see whether there's a huge difference between the boards and the price difference is around 70EUR. If you guys have some reccomendations, you are welcome. Cooling will be done with my Nepton 240M so I guess there's a lot of OC headroom but the VRM and cooling of the mobo is what concerns me, since it was a big deal on AMD. What boards can get me to 4.5GHz, and do chips get easily to this point or lottery starts at even lower clocks?

Again, thanks a lot for the info, everything in this thread is welcome.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tashcz View Post

Thanks guys, a bunch. You made this a no-brainer, I will go with Skylake. It's not "getting" the best, actually when I'm spending a lot of money on something I don't want to be in a situation "will it be able to do that?", I like to start an app/play a game and know it's gonna work without issues. And also be futureproof for the next 2-3 years or so. I usually upgrade every 4 years on average but most of my AMD hardware failed - and it was the first time I had experience with AMD. My sabertooth 990fx died, my R9 270x died... I'd like to go back to blue and green and see how their stuff goes.

If I get the Skylake system and the new GPU I'm left with a half-functioning 8 core AMD system which still runs well but the GPU works underclocked and the CPU doesn't OC well (4.3GHz "stable") on a spare board I have so it doesn't suit my needs. Also got a spare case so I'll just need to get another PSU for it when I get some spare money and I'll have another fine working PC. I need something reliable and everything I'm going to get has 3 year warranty.

Anyways, I got a couple of more questions since I find some mixed reviews on the web. Does DDR4 frequency really matter that much, like on that article in this thread? I'll be using a single GPU (probably a GTX970 or GTX1060) so that bothers me since they show some massive FPS drops. I play on 1080p 60Hz, so nothing special is needed, but I like to get the stable 60FPS.

Also, I've took a look at z170 mobos. Asus is still my favourite, and I'm deciding between Z170-A and the Sabertooth Z170 S (the version without armor), and love the fan option for VRMs. I have a CM Stryker white case and like to keep the black/white color scheme so Sabertooth looks super awesome for the build. But from the reviews, I can't see whether there's a huge difference between the boards and the price difference is around 70EUR. If you guys have some reccomendations, you are welcome. Cooling will be done with my Nepton 240M so I guess there's a lot of OC headroom but the VRM and cooling of the mobo is what concerns me, since it was a big deal on AMD. What boards can get me to 4.5GHz, and do chips get easily to this point or lottery starts at even lower clocks?

Again, thanks a lot for the info, everything in this thread is welcome.
DDR4 frequency definitely matters in some games. I would opt for at least DDR4 3000MHz as the price difference is usually very marginal. If you can get a higher frequency than 3000 for a slight extra cost, then I would do that also.

As far as the boards are concerned. The Z170-A is pretty solid. I wouldn't bother with the Sabertooth S, and for some weird reason this board shows a max supported RAM speed of 2400 as per the Asus website. Not sure if that is accurate. Just go with the Z170-A.

Most boards are capable of high OC's when it comes to Intel. The VRM's definitely matter, but not nearly as much as with AMD due to the significantly lower power requirements.
 

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http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600521523%20600561668%20600546709&IsNodeId=1&name=288-Pin%20DDR4%20SDRAM&cm_sp=cat_memory_6-_-VisNav-_-New-Release-DDR4

one of the lowest latency RAM you can get. There is now 3400 MTs CL 14 but neewegg doesn't have it.

read this so you can see what the real latency is of your RAM. This has to be done to all off them but CAS is the most common to compare but all affect it. but if you have RAM that is 14-14-14-32 (or whatver) the latency between the first 3 are the same.
https://hardforum.com/threads/wccftech-ram-affects-fps-in-fo4-bull****.1881718/#post-1041977626
https://hardforum.com/threads/excel-file-to-find-1st-4th-8th-word-latency.1890935/
 

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3200 13-13-13-33 / 3466 14-14-14-34 / 4266 19-23-23-43 are out in June ( 2x8GB )
The rest can come in 32/64GB kits
3.200 10 6.250 7.188 8.438
3.200 11 6.875 7.813 9.063
3.200 12 7.500 8.438 9.688
3.200 13 8.125 9.063 10.313
3.200 14 8.750 9.688 10.938
3.200 15 9.375 10.313 11.563
3.200 16 10.000 10.938 12.188
3.300 10 6.061 6.970 8.182
3.300 11 6.667 7.576 8.788
3.300 12 7.273 8.182 9.394
3.300 13 7.879 8.788 10.000
3.300 14 8.485 9.394 10.606
3.300 15 9.091 10.000 11.212
3.300 16 9.697 10.606 11.818
3.400 10 5.882 6.765 7.941
3.400 11 6.471 7.353 8.529
3.400 12 7.059 7.941 9.118
3.400 13 7.647 8.529 9.706
3.400 14 8.235 9.118 10.294
3.400 15 8.824 9.706 10.882
3.400 16 9.412 10.294 11.471
3.466 10 5.770 6.636 7.790
3.466 11 6.347 7.213 8.367
3.466 12 6.924 7.790 8.944
3.466 13 7.501 8.367 9.521
3.466 14 8.078 8.944 10.098
3.466 15 8.656 9.521 10.675
3.466 16 9.233 10.098 11.252
3.500 10 5.714 6.571 7.714
3.500 11 6.286 7.143 8.286
3.500 12 6.857 7.714 8.857
3.500 13 7.429 8.286 9.429
3.500 14 8.000 8.857 10.000
3.500 15 8.571 9.429 10.571
3.500 16 9.143 10.000 11.143
3.600 10 5.556 6.389 7.500
3.600 11 6.111 6.944 8.056
3.600 12 6.667 7.500 8.611
3.600 13 7.222 8.056 9.167
3.600 14 7.778 8.611 9.722
3.600 15 8.333 9.167 10.278
3.600 16 8.889 9.722 10.833
3.733 12 6.429 7.233 8.304
3.733 13 6.965 7.769 8.840
3.733 14 7.501 8.304 9.376
3.733 15 8.036 8.840 9.912
3.733 16 8.572 9.376 10.447
3.866 13 6.725 7.501 8.536
3.866 14 7.243 8.019 9.053
3.866 15 7.760 8.536 9.571
3.866 16 8.277 9.053 10.088
3.866 17 8.795 9.571 10.605
0.240 1 8.333 20.833 37.500
0.480 2 8.333 14.583 22.917
0.720 3 8.333 12.500 18.056
0.960 4 8.333 11.458 15.625
1.200 5 8.333 10.833 14.167
1.440 6 8.333 10.417 13.194
1.680 7 8.333 10.119 12.500
1.920 8 8.333 9.896 11.979
2.160 9 8.333 9.722 11.574
2.400 10 8.333 9.583 11.250
2.640 11 8.333 9.470 10.985
2.880 12 8.333 9.375 10.764
3.120 13 8.333 9.295 10.577
3.360 14 8.333 9.226 10.417
3.600 15 8.333 9.167 10.278
3.840 16 8.333 9.115 10.156
4.080 17 8.333 9.069 10.049
4.320 18 8.333 9.028 9.954
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by iinversion View Post

DDR4 frequency definitely matters in some games. I would opt for at least DDR4 3000MHz as the price difference is usually very marginal. If you can get a higher frequency than 3000 for a slight extra cost, then I would do that also.

As far as the boards are concerned. The Z170-A is pretty solid. I wouldn't bother with the Sabertooth S, and for some weird reason this board shows a max supported RAM speed of 2400 as per the Asus website. Not sure if that is accurate. Just go with the Z170-A.

Most boards are capable of high OC's when it comes to Intel. The VRM's definitely matter, but not nearly as much as with AMD due to the significantly lower power requirements.
Thanks, I'm gonna do a little digging on the Sabertooth and see wether it's compatible, because I really prefer them. If not it's gonna be the Z170-A.

So, you say DDR4 frequency matters. So if a game runs on a 4790k with 1866MHz RAM with 100FPS (just an example), and per-clock and frequencies of the CPUs are the same, will DDR4 @ 2000MHz run it faster or slower? I mean if we only take RAM into consideration. Because right now I don't know if those lower and mid DDR4 frequencies are a good thing or not.
 

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if your getting DDR4 your getting DDR 3200 or something in those ranges. lower end DDR4 has worse latency as i discussed above and there is little reason to get anything sub 2400 MTs. When BW starts to make a difference its when your getting 50% difference so 1600 vs 2400. 1866vs2000 is not going to be anything tangible besides benchmarking

Also as i said latency plays a role here too. My Haswell has 2400 CL 10 and thats one of the best DDR 3 you can get and beats the vast majority of DDR 4 RAM besides the 3200/3400 CL 13/14 we mentioned above.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So gaming wise, do you think your Haswell gets the same performance if we assume CPU performance is the same (same benchmark results of both CPUs) as lower to mid range DDR4? Would you be getting the same FPS?

What I'm thinking is that if I get less than 2400MHz DDR4 I'm going to bottleneck it and get even worse performance than a 4970K will offer. I can't find those high speed modules, I think max I can get is 3000MHz DDR4 which is 2x more than 2400MHz looking at the price.
 

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go to that hard forum link and download my excel sheet on 1st 4th and 8th word latency. Find ram that is sub 10ns for 1st word and you will be fine. I don't know what you have in your country in terms of availability but Anything 2400MTs or great is good but get sub 10ns 1st word. So If you can get 2000-2400 DDR3 with lower latency for a lot less money get HW but if you can get good DDR4 ram get SKL.

I cant give further advice without seeing examples of your options. So download that excel sheet and see what you have available and the prices.

I cant comment on if 2x price difference is worth while or not in terms of performance without seeing examples of what that means in what your buying. my 32GB of DDR3 was 200 bucks but I also have a binned CPU and every bit matters to me but maybe not to you so bare in mind each person has different needs in terms of performance and price. So realize my performance needs and the money i am willing to spend is probably great than yours.
 
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