[tigim101]

Hey guys, building a new sg06 build in the next few days, and im deciding whether or not to go haswell. Im probably planning on going with an i7 4770 (or 3770 if i do ivy bridge) because this will also be my main PC and im going to be studying engineering, so I think I should spend the extra bit of cash to get the hyper-threading to help out with CAD and whatnot. The problem is the temperatures ive seen the haswell chips getting up to, 90 on full load on stock cooler, plus it being inside a tiny sg06 with a full size video card is kind of worrisome. Should i not be worrying about it, or is there no advantage to going haswell over ivy?

Also,im planning on buying a gtx 770 in a month or two, going to use a gtx 660 i have for now, and was wondering if any knows if the MSI GAMING Gtx 770 fits in an sg06? The size is 260mm, and the sg05/sg06 have a maximum of 262mm, should it technically should fit. Its also the only 770, as far as i know, that would fit inside the sg06.

Thanks in advance

 

[Black5Lion]

If you want hyper-threading, won't be overclocking, and will have a dGPU. Why not go for a Xeon E3?
Something like an E3-1230 v2 will give you the performance of a *slightly down clocked* 3770 for a price comparable to a 3570.

 

[psyclum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigim101

Hey guys, building a new sg06 build in the next few days, and im deciding whether or not to go haswell. Im probably planning on going with an i7 4770 (or 3770 if i do ivy bridge) because this will also be my main PC and im going to be studying engineering, so I think I should spend the extra bit of cash to get the hyper-threading to help out with CAD and whatnot. The problem is the temperatures ive seen the haswell chips getting up to, 90 on full load on stock cooler, plus it being inside a tiny sg06 with a full size video card is kind of worrisome. Should i not be worrying about it, or is there no advantage to going haswell over ivy?

Also,im planning on buying a gtx 770 in a month or two, going to use a gtx 660 i have for now, and was wondering if any knows if the MSI GAMING Gtx 770 fits in an sg06? The size is 260mm, and the sg05/sg06 have a maximum of 262mm, should it technically should fit. Its also the only 770, as far as i know, that would fit inside the sg06.

Thanks in advance

how brave are you? you are going to be an engineering student so you should understand the concept of thermal density and thermal resistance. that thread will explain alot about the issues involved for you.

as far as the 770, any time you are working with SFF, you are always on the edge of clearance

2mm is a relatively good amount of room to work with in the realm of SFF

another consideration you might have neglected is the machine will be relatively loud. SFF do not have alot of room for heatsinks. so to compensate, you are working with higher RPM fans. there have been many SG06/SG05 owners who have complained about the PSU fan being too loud.

 

[tigim101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black5Lion

If you want hyper-threading, won't be overclocking, and will have a dGPU. Why not go for a Xeon E3?
Something like an E3-1230 v2 will give you the performance of a *slightly down clocked* 3770 for a price comparable to a 3570.

Thing is, wouldn't I need a server motherboard? The cheapest ITX one ive seen is $200, so the cost would end up being the same. Correct me if im wrong.
Quote:

Originally Posted by psyclum

how brave are you? you are going to be an engineering student so you should understand the concept of thermal density and thermal resistance. that thread will explain alot about the issues involved for you.

as far as the 770, any time you are working with SFF, you are always on the edge of clearance

2mm is a relatively good amount of room to work with in the realm of SFF

another consideration you might have neglected is the machine will be relatively loud. SFF do not have alot of room for heatsinks. so to compensate, you are working with higher RPM fans. there have been many SG06/SG05 owners who have complained about the PSU fan being too loud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black5Lion

If you want hyper-threading, won't be overclocking, and will have a dGPU. Why not go for a Xeon E3?
Something like an E3-1230 v2 will give you the performance of a *slightly down clocked* 3770 for a price comparable to a 3570.

I did read the older thread with the 3770k delidding, im not sure if I would want to risk it, maybe if I can practice on some old processors I got lying around. The temperature difference is massive though. I skimmed through the thread and a lot of people get chips that throttle on stock clocks/coolers, doesnt seem like its worth it to get haswell, unless im getting a beefy cooler.

Ive built 2 other builds in sg05s, the last one was with an xfx 6870 which was 261 mm and it fit, Im more concerned about a small piece of the shroud or something sticking out, the xfx was just a box so didn't have this problem. I have noticed the bronze 450w is pretty loud, and the gold is even louder. Ive been considering the sg07/08 instead, since it has an ATX PSU, and silent pc recommends the sg08 for a silent itx build, but its a lot more expensive.

 

[Black5Lion]

not really, the e-3 v2 xeons work on most if not all lga1155 mbs.
gigabytes n wifi boards are a great example for a cheap yet feature rich mbs.

ps; sorry for the formatting im writing this from my phone.

 

[psyclum]

the only reason to get xeon is if you are seriously going to do some real CAD work on it "professionally" that means you'd be looking at professional graphics card too and those are more expensive then titans

the primary difference between xeon and consumer stuff is registered ECC RAM. if you are rendering something that takes 2 days to render, you want it done right the 1st time around

any way you look at it, the xeon stuff is just not worth it as a student. after you graduate and get a real job and are doing this professionally, then yes by all means, but i doubt you'd be doing anything that would require that level of precision as a student. and IF for some reason you DO need something that powerful, your professor will likely allocate some time on a supercomputer for you to work on

as far as delidding... it's up to you whether you decide to do it. as you've mentioned, the benefits are MASSIVE.

now... to put things into perspective. a sandybridge 2600k is a 95w TDP chip, an ivybridge 3770K is a 77w TDP chip and a haswell 4770K is a 84w TDP chip. so both the ivybridge AND haswell uses LESS POWER and put out LESS HEAT then a sandybridge chip... as an engineering student you should understand heat and temperature are mutually exclusive concepts. a needle heated to a bright yellow color has HIGH temp, but LOW heat, whereas a bathtub full of bathwater has HIGH heat but LOW temp. it's the THERMAL DENSITY that is the cause of the temp being high. NOT the amount of heat produced.

thermal density problem is a heat TRANSFER problem NOT a heatsink problem. you can have a heatsink the size of a building and it still wont do any good if you are unable to effectively transfer that heat ONTO the heatsink. THIS is the problem of the TIM inside the IHS is causing. the high temp and the resulting thermal throttle is caused by its inability to TRANSFER the heat away FROM the chip ONTO the IHS/heatsink. it's NOT the ability of the heatsink removing the heat. in fact a heatsink doesn't even have to work as hard these days since it's actually putting out LESS HEAT then a 2600K...

even a lowly hyper212 is capable of handling a 2600k on reasonable OC... so why do you think a chip that puts out less HEAT would cause a problem?

do NOT confuse the terms HEAT with TEMP. TEMPERATURE is the problem NOT heat. solve the problem, don't be confused by it.

you SURE you want to be an engineering student?

 

[Black5Lion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyclum

the only reason to get xeon is if you are seriously going to do some real CAD work on it "professionally" that means you'd be looking at professional graphics card too and those are more expensive then titans

the primary difference between xeon and consumer stuff is registered ECC RAM. if you are rendering something that takes 2 days to render, you want it done right the 1st time around

any way you look at it, the xeon stuff is just not worth it as a student. after you graduate and get a real job and are doing this professionally, then yes by all means, but i doubt you'd be doing anything that would require that level of precision as a student. and IF for some reason you DO need something that powerful, your professor will likely allocate some time on a supercomputer for you to work on

as far as delidding... it's up to you whether you decide to do it. as you've mentioned, the benefits are MASSIVE.

now... to put things into perspective. a sandybridge 2600k is a 95w TDP chip, an ivybridge 3770K is a 77w TDP chip and a haswell 4770K is a 84w TDP chip. so both the ivybridge AND haswell uses LESS POWER and put out LESS HEAT then a sandybridge chip... as an engineering student you should understand heat and temperature are mutually exclusive concepts. a needle heated to a bright yellow color has HIGH temp, but LOW heat, whereas a bathtub full of bathwater has HIGH heat but LOW temp. it's the THERMAL DENSITY that is the cause of the temp being high. NOT the amount of heat produced.

thermal density problem is a heat TRANSFER problem NOT a heatsink problem. you can have a heatsink the size of a building and it still wont do any good if you are unable to effectively transfer that heat ONTO the heatsink. THIS is the problem of the TIM inside the IHS is causing. the high temp and the resulting thermal throttle is caused by its inability to TRANSFER the heat away FROM the chip ONTO the IHS/heatsink. it's NOT the ability of the heatsink removing the heat. in fact a heatsink doesn't even have to work as hard these days since it's actually putting out LESS HEAT then a 2600K...

even a lowly hyper212 is capable of handling a 2600k on reasonable OC... so why do you think a chip that puts out less HEAT would cause a problem?

do NOT confuse the terms HEAT with TEMP. TEMPERATURE is the problem NOT heat. solve the problem, don't be confused by it.

you SURE you want to be an engineering student?

But the 1230 v2 can handle both ecc or non-ecc ram, and it doesn't have to be paired with an expensive gpu.
The reason I suggested the Xeon is because he was looking at an i7 that is locked with a dGPU, the Xeon will barely make any difference in performance but will certainly make a difference in price.

 

[planedrop]

Unless you're a huge intel/NVidia fan I would go with AMD everything. Get a 8-core AMD FX processor, better than a quad core with hyperthreading, lots of things don't support hyperthreading. Also a 7970 ghz would be just as good as a 770 and would be cheaper, although I'm not sure if there is a 7970 that would fit in a small case. Going AMD would save you a lot of money.

 

[tigim101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black5Lion

But the 1230 v2 can handle both ecc or non-ecc ram, and it doesn't have to be paired with an expensive gpu.
The reason I suggested the Xeon is because he was looking at an i7 that is locked with a dGPU, the Xeon will barely make any difference in performance but will certainly make a difference in price.

This is true, gigabyte and asrock even have them listed as officially supported CPUs on their websites for their h77 itx mobos. Seems no reason I shouldn't get the xeon processor unless I need the iGPU, which I don't. And to psyclum, thanks for clarifying the heat issue, that means that basically unless I delid, I won't be able to fix the temperature problem, making it more compelling to go Ivy Bridge. And yes I still want to be an engineering student. lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by planedrop

Unless you're a huge intel/NVidia fan I would go with AMD everything. Get a 8-core AMD FX processor, better than a quad core with hyperthreading, lots of things don't support hyperthreading. Also a 7970 ghz would be just as good as a 770 and would be cheaper, although I'm not sure if there is a 7970 that would fit in a small case. Going AMD would save you a lot of money.

There aren't any AM3+ ITX Boards, so I would have to go MATX atleast. A 7970 is probably a better choice price wise versus a 770, but that is a little further down the road.

With the savings I get from going to a Xeon E3 - 1230 v2, I can move up to an sg07, which has 12.2 inch GPU clearance, making it so I can fit pretty much any GPU in there, as well as a much quieter PSU. Thanks a lot guys, now if only RAM hadn't gone up so much, last year it was practically half price

 

[planedrop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigim101

This is true, gigabyte and asrock even have them listed as officially supported CPUs on their websites for their h77 itx mobos. Seems no reason I shouldn't get the xeon processor unless I need the iGPU, which I don't. And to psyclum, thanks for clarifying the heat issue, that means that basically unless I delid, I won't be able to fix the temperature problem, making it more compelling to go Ivy Bridge. And yes I still want to be an engineering student. lol.
There aren't any AM3+ ITX Boards, so I would have to go MATX atleast. A 7970 is probably a better choice price wise versus a 770, but that is a little further down the road.

With the savings I get from going to a Xeon E3 - 1230 v2, I can move up to an sg07, which has 12.2 inch GPU clearance, making it so I can fit pretty much any GPU in there, as well as a much quieter PSU. Thanks a lot guys, now if only RAM hadn't gone up so much, last year it was practically half price

Alright thanks makes sense. well if you're on a budget it would be a better way to go. I'm not used to small cases as I am a full tower kind of guy haha. and yes 7970 is much better for the money . It's performance is pretty incredible for 400 bucks.