[Flinch]

Hi Everyone,

I have spent a *fair* amount of time trying to decipher the validity of whether or not non conductive fluids will short out components it comes in contact with in the event of a leak.

There are many people that claim *yes* you'll be fine with a leak, while the other camp states *no* this is not safe, since even distilled water going through your loop flowing across your blocks, will pick up contaminants from the metals they are manufactured from.

I'm sure this debate has raged on for many years. So, is there any *factual* testing or other information I can look at that will dictate if this is fact or fiction? I do not have the knowledge to honestly say one way or another, but if it is a myth, I'd sure like to have the information to *bust it*

Thank you

 

[ira-k]

I used to use Fluid XP for a long time, I got sick of spending that much on it and started using a witch's brew instead..I've been fortunate and never had a leak so I don't know if it would work or not...Snerp a member here used MCT-05 and he said he had a few leaks and it kept his rig from frying...CyberDruid here I believe said his PC Ice had kept his stuff from frying with a couple of leaks...

Scientific proof I have neither for or against...I rely more on people I know and their experience with things...A lot of nay-saying is just BS and a lot of times the praising is just BS....Reviews on the net are un-reliable anymore, they just want free goodies...

 

[MGX1016]

It's not the Fluid that does the frying if it's non-conductive.

AS5 is hardly conductive and will not fry but if you leave it and some other particles get on it, it can short some stuffs.

 

[ira-k]

If you let your case get dusty and get a leak the current can travel through the dust floating on top of the coolant and still fry your stuff even with non-conductive......

 

[Flinch]

Thanks for your replies fellas, what I've gained from this so far, is, that as long as your using water, regardless of what's going 'round and 'round in your loop for additives, there is always a chance, be it 50% or 5% that a leak could very well *take out* some components, due to the electrical nature.

So, a fair statement would read: you may or may not lose parts if a leak occurs, that's what I have drawn so far.

If I'm on the wrong track or need to see this in a different light, feel free to correct me.

Thanks

 

[psun786]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flinch Thanks for your replies fellas, what I've gained from this so far, is, that as long as your using water, regardless of what's going 'round and 'round in your loop for additives, there is always a chance, be it 50% or 5% that a leak could very well *take out* some components, due to the electrical nature. So, a fair statement would read: you may or may not lose parts if a leak occurs, that's what I have drawn so far. If I'm on the wrong track or need to see this in a different light, feel free to correct me. Thanks

If there is a leak in your water loop, 95% of the chance that it will short something. Here is why.

To be exact, water itself is a poor conductor. I think distilled water is about 18 megaohm-cm (resistivity). However, the ions in the water do transmit electric and that is why it can fry sensitive circuit. But don't go get deionised water and think you are going to be safe. Water tend to react with metal (ur copper block / radiator) and then those deionised become a perfect conductive medium.

Regarding the Fluid XP, I have been using it for some time and can tell you for sure that +85% chance they will not cause any harm. There have been numerous time that I have some dropped on my 8800GTX and everything is fine. But the true reason I am using Fluid XP is low maintenance, it can go 2~3 years without the need to cycle. Water need to be change every 3 months or sooner if you live in warmer region and sunlight can get to your water. The downside for Fluid XP is that they do not transfer heat as well as water. So your temp may go a little higher. But at least Fluid XP doesn't clog your pump like Promos

 

[pencap23]

Just use water and make sure everything, is 100% dust or dirt free, and you should be fine!

 

[dr4gon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira-k I used to use Fluid XP for a long time, I got sick of spending that much on it and started using a witch's brew instead..I've been fortunate and never had a leak so I don't know if it would work or not...Snerp a member here used MCT-05 and he said he had a few leaks and it kept his rig from frying...CyberDruid here I believe said his PC Ice had kept his stuff from frying with a couple of leaks... Scientific proof I have neither for or against...I rely more on people I know and their experience with things...A lot of nay-saying is just BS and a lot of times the praising is just BS....Reviews on the net are un-reliable anymore, they just want free goodies...

what is this witch's brew you speak of?

 

[stargate125645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flinch Hi Everyone, I have spent a *fair* amount of time trying to decipher the validity of whether or not non conductive fluids will short out components it comes in contact with in the event of a leak. There are many people that claim *yes* you'll be fine with a leak, while the other camp states *no* this is not safe, since even distilled water going through your loop flowing across your blocks, will pick up contaminants from the metals they are manufactured from. I'm sure this debate has raged on for many years. So, is there any *factual* testing or other information I can look at that will dictate if this is fact or fiction? I do not have the knowledge to honestly say one way or another, but if it is a myth, I'd sure like to have the information to *bust it* Thank you

A water molecule itself is not neutral. It has a positive side and a negative side that binds it with its neighboring water molecules (oxygen being negative, the two hydrogen being positive), hence water itself is capable of transmitting electricity, although not very efficiently. Thus, you can fry a component with just distilled water, regardless of what else is in there (including non-conductive additives). Metal contaminants can increase the fluid's conductivity, and you will get contaminants in your water loop regardless of how much anti-corrosion agent you use. Of course, water without contaminants (i.e. distilled water, with or without non-conductive additives), will be less conductive than water with contaminants, but I still wouldn't want to take the chance.

Edit: Psun touched on this. Sorry for the extra information.

 

[psun786]

You can use water and apply some clear silicone water sealant around tubing connections. It is not permanent and can be removed later. After cured, they feel like clear rubber jelly

 

[Martinm210]

Has anyone tested the viscosity of Fluid-xp verses water. I'm curious how much flow rate loss you may experience if any at all.

I know nothing will beat water in specific heat, but what about viscocity and flow rate?

 

[StelthDiesel]

First-off lets get terms straight, DISTILLED water is conductive and manufactured simply by boiling water and condensing the steam.DEIONIZED water is a poor conductor, depending upon purity. Manufacture is by removing all non H+ or OH- ions from the water. The result is high resistance-high purity H2O that is VERY corrosive to metal.To put it simply... what is in your car radiator? DISTILLED water and anti-freeze. (NEVER use tap water!) Consider that any water-based computer cooling solution should be treated like an automobile. For environmental reasons use 'propylene glycol' based AF like Sierra. Stay away from 'ethylene glycol' based coolants.

 

[Flinch]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Your answers are what I thought to be true. If you have a leak, and water is dispersed on your parts, more times than none, your going to be in trouble.

Thanks again

 

[ThePope]

I use Black Fluid XP. Stuffs freaking expensive. I am thinking about going back to regular coolant. Just gotta watch out for leaks and such.

 

[ira-k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr4gon what is this witch's brew you speak of?

I mix Pentosin at 10-1 with distilled water a couple of drops of PT Nuke an ounce of glycerin and a drop or 2 of Dawn dish washing soap...

The Pentosin is a anti-corrosive,it also has a UV dye in it so I can check for leaks with a 4" UV lamp...The PT Nuke is a biocide...The glycerin is a watter wetter and pump lube and the couple of drops of Dawn is also a water wetter, it helps to get the coolant in complete contact with the blocks and rad surfaces...Don't use to much or it will hurt your temp's...The glycerin you can get for a couple of bux at any drug-store..

...PT Nuke

...Pentosin 4oz

...

 

[psun786]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210 Has anyone tested the viscosity of Fluid-xp verses water. I'm curious how much flow rate loss you may experience if any at all. I know nothing will beat water in specific heat, but what about viscocity and flow rate?

The viscosity of FluidXP is 20c @4.37 centistrokes and 40c @2.50 centistrokes (vs water 20c @1.00 & 40c @0.65). The flow rate loss can vary depend on the pump. Eventhough the numbers appeared there is huge difference, but this isn't true in reality. Propylene glycol, an ingredient in FluidXP has a viscosity of 20c @40.4. Motor oil has viscosity of 20c @300. So, the viscosity lost is neglectable in a water cooling setup.

The thermal absorptive / heat capacity of Fluid XP is 0.94 Btu (water is 1 Btu). Thermal conductivity of Fluid XP is 3.6 Btu (water is 4.2 Btu). The higher the number, the better. In general, you are expect to see 1~2c increase in coolant temerapure. But this is only you are dealing with a lot of heat (something like 200w).

NO, Fluid XP is not expensive. In fact, it is CHEAPER than WATER when used in water cooling. For water coolant, it need to be replace every 3 months. Each cycle, you have to add additives such as anti-algae and anti-corrosion. Let just say it cost $15 for those every 3 months. It cost you $120 for those additives over the period of two years. Fulid Xp can last 2 years without the need to replace and it only cost $35.

 

[CrazyJoe]

From an engineering expert web site -

Quote:

DI water will dissolve roughly 30 ppm Cu at ambient T and typical pH of 5, and more at higher T. Enough to visibly contaminate the water. Perforation is likely in the higher T portions of a closed system. Of course, with enough Prestone, Peak, etc., you can use copper, brass, carbon steel, etc. The only metals suitable for contact with pure DI water are noble metals (gold, platinum) and those with highly passive oxide films (304/316 SS, Ti, Zr). Aluminum 1100, 3003, 5052, etc. can be used to 100oC if 0.04 ppm dissolved Al is tolerable [value for steam condensate tanks of Al 3003].

However, if you add this stuff from Petras - PT-Nuke
Which is copper based, the corrosive properties should be negated since the DI water will now be neutralized ... conductive once more ... but neutralized.

( I'll be able to let you all know first hand here shortly since I'll be running two loops with water that has gone through a Demineralization process and then through a De-ionization process directly after ... approximately .7ppm purity )

 

[ReCoiL]

I use Distilled water and water wetter best temps ever and crystal clear

WaterWetter® is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30ºF. This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze. Or it can be added to new or used antifreeze to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems. Designed for modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze systems. Compatible with all antifreezes, including the latest long-life variations.

 

[CrazyJoe]

Now if that isn't a copy/paste advertisement ... I don't know what is. yeesh !

 

[TurboHertz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira-k I used to use Fluid XP for a long time, I got sick of spending that much on it and started using a witch's brew instead..I've been fortunate and never had a leak so I don't know if it would work or not...Snerp a member here used MCT-05 and he said he had a few leaks and it kept his rig from frying...CyberDruid here I believe said his PC Ice had kept his stuff from frying with a couple of leaks... Scientific proof I have neither for or against...I rely more on people I know and their experience with things...A lot of nay-saying is just BS and a lot of times the praising is just BS....Reviews on the net are un-reliable anymore, they just want free goodies...

Can I buy some brew? No joke.