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Frog Blast The Vent Core
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/13/technology/apple-fortnite-ban.html

Epic Games, the maker of the wildly popular Fortnite video game, made a bold move this week: It began encouraging users of its iPhone and Android apps to pay it directly, rather than via Apple or Google.

On Thursday, Apple responded, kicking the Fortnite app out of its App Store and sharply escalating its fight with arguably the world’s most important game company and one of its most lucrative partners.

“Epic enabled a feature in its app which was not reviewed or approved by Apple, and they did so with the express intent of violating the App Store guidelines,” Apple said in a statement. “We will make every effort to work with Epic to resolve these violations so they can return Fortnite to the App Store.”
Hooboy. There's the big guns coming out.
 

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sudo apt install sl
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They want to use Apples and Googles pay systems for free. They've been trying to bypass them for years. Why don't they target Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo because their fees are similar?
 

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Their lawsuit is about App Store monopoly and in-app payments. PSN and XBL has the same monopoly on their platforms and Epic has games there too.

These recent suits are interesting.

Edit: I'm guessing services like Paypal will be joining in soon.
 

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sudo apt install sl
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Their lawsuit is about App Store monopoly and in-app payments. PSN and XBL has the same monopoly on their platforms and Epic has games there too.

These recent suits are interesting.

Edit: I'm guessing services like Paypal will be joining in soon.
Not sure which changes they added but Apple shouldn't ban them if they have a separate link like Netflix which they stopped using the App Store pay system.
 

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mfw
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Look, two giants I don't care about. Hope there's a lot of blood.
 

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Super Moderator
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Epic Games knew exactly what was going to happen when they did what they did. They were prepared for Fortnite to get removed from the App store. Their lawyers sent out documents almost immediately and they had a cinematic "movie" made about this uploaded within 2 hours of the game being removed.
 

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mfw
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Epic Games knew exactly what was going to happen when they did what they did. They were prepared for Fortnite to get removed from the App store. Their lawyers sent out documents almost immediately and they had a cinematic "movie" made about this uploaded within 2 hours of the game being removed.
Video for reference:

I guess they weren't making enough rivers of money.
 

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Graphics Junkie
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What's to stop someone from making in game purchases on PC and then signing into the same fortnight account from an iPhone?

I don't think apple is going to be able to stop in app purchases for too much longer.
 

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Do... do people still play Fortnite who aren't twitch streamers?
 

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Robotic Chemist
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They want to use Apples and Googles pay systems for free. They've been trying to bypass them for years. Why don't they target Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo because their fees are similar?
Isn't it exactly the opposite? Apple is mad that Epic is not using their payment system?

Apple wants a cut of everything, if they don't get 30% they don't want their customers to have access to it at all. Does Apple (or anyone) deserve a 30% cut of all transactions simply for allowing access to their customers? They will not let anyone install anything except though their store and then they want a 30% cut of absolutely every transaction, even when they are not handling the payment. I guess Apple thinks they are big enough that no content is important enough that people will stop buying their devices if they don't have access to it.

Value for the customer means nothing, max cash extraction from a customer is all they care about. This is purely about monetizing access to their customers, a nice tool booth at the gate through the walls around the garden which takes 30% of everything anyone wants to bring through. :p

What's to stop someone from making in game purchases on PC and then signing into the same fortnight account from an iPhone?
That is what Audible did when Apple wanted 30% of all books purchased with the App. Now there are only "add to list" links in the app and you have to buy them in a web browser.

Apple ends up making the user experience worse to try to get more money.

I guess they weren't making enough rivers of money.
Which company in this dispute are you talking about? That statement refers to both. ;)
 

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I wonder what exactly Epic did.
There are ways to do this that would have been within the rules, but I can easily imagine Apple overstepping their own rules.

If this was "Link to Website" telling people to pay off the app store, then Apple would be right.
If Epic just enabled payment off the app store, but made no mention of it within the Fortnite iOS app, then Epic is right. They could even remove the ability to pay within the app store and let people figure it out.


To be clear, I am actually in favor of Apple's "walled garden", I think app store curation and strict guidelines are a good thing.
The only problem is rules around money, a payment system is not an issue of quality or a vector for distributing objectionable content (not that Apple actually cares about objectionable content or all social media apps would be banned).
 

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Pinoy po mga koya
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Fortnite needs to die tbh
 

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sudo apt install sl
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Isn't it exactly the opposite? Apple is mad that Epic is not using their payment system?

Apple wants a cut of everything, if they don't get 30% they don't want their customers to have access to it at all. Does Apple (or anyone) deserve a 30% cut of all transactions simply for allowing access to their customers? They will not let anyone install anything except though their store and then they want a 30% cut of absolutely every transaction, even when they are not handling the payment. I guess Apple thinks they are big enough that no content is important enough that people will stop buying their devices if they don't have access to it.

Value for the customer means nothing, max cash extraction from a customer is all they care about. This is purely about monetizing access to their customers, a nice tool booth at the gate through the walls around the garden which takes 30% of everything anyone wants to bring through. /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
They use that cash to maintain a secure pay system just like Google's Play Store pay system.

I'd rather use a secure pay system than use a random third party system built into an app.

I wonder what exactly Epic did.
There are ways to do this that would have been within the rules, but I can easily imagine Apple overstepping their own rules.

If this was "Link to Website" telling people to pay off the app store, then Apple would be right.
If Epic just enabled payment off the app store, but made no mention of it within the Fortnite iOS app, then Epic is right. They could even remove the ability to pay within the app store and let people figure it out.


To be clear, I am actually in favor of Apple's "walled garden", I think app store curation and strict guidelines are a good thing.
The only problem is rules around money, a payment system is not an issue of quality or a vector for distributing objectionable content (not that Apple actually cares about objectionable content or all social media apps would be banned).
They added their own pay system inside the app at a discounted rate.
 

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It's 30% for the first year followed by 15% after. They use that cash to maintain a secure pay system just like Google's Play Store pay system.

I'd rather use a secure pay system than use a random third party system built into an app.



They added their own pay system inside the app at a discounted rate.
So I guess they're happy with a 20% cut since thats what discount they're offering by not going through Apple. I think Fortnite profits must have plateaued or even plunged recently and they're just looking around trying to find where they can make up the difference to continue pleasing investors.
 

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Robotic Chemist
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They added their own pay system inside the app at a discounted rate.
Haha, Epic obviously wanted to be banned. They had this planned out.

The issue is that you have to pay Apple to run on an iPhone at all. In that sense it is anti-competitive. Apple argues the walled garden is a feature instead of an anti-competitive tool but it can be both. I think Apple does abuse their power over apps on iOS but charging for the use of the app store and its payment system is totally fine. There is value provided by a curated store but at the same time if Apple abuses their power over the ecosystem too much customers and companies do not have alternatives. An effective duopoly is not a real competitive marketplace and there are a lot of costs to leaving the Apple ecosystem. It will be interesting to see where this case goes, I could see Apple winning legally even though I think they are being anti-competitive but it is not a sure thing.
 

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Vermin Supreme 2020
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Epic went full alex jones, for profit.



love it.
 

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Performance is the bible
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They are trying to create a hype and rally people based on false information and narrative in order to bypass ToS they signed up for.

Would it be ok if players also bypass fornite payment system and start getting things for free from the game? After all, epic games have a huge monoploy on their system and prevents billions of users from getting free stuff.

I expect this is going to be thrown out of the courts. Especially when you can pay through their site and bypass apple payment system, so there is an alternative that apples is ok with.
 
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