Overclock.net banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
⤷ αC
Joined
·
11,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/amd_ryzen_5_7_cpu_cooler_round_up/5
Quote:
When overclocking our R5 1600X we can see that the affordable Cryorig H7 was simply unable to keep up with the heat output of our R5 1600X at 4GHz. It seems that 1.4V core voltages are simply too much for small air coolers, with lower voltages and/or clock speeds being required for an overclocked 1600X to run on lower-end air coolers.


It's interesting in that a 140W TDP rated Cryorig H7 isn't enough for the 6 cores @ 4GHz.

Quote:
For our overclocked CPU testing we ran our Ryzen 7 1800X at 4GHz with a core voltage of 1.4V and a SoC voltage of 1.1V. We ran the CPU with our memory kit clocked at 3200MHz and ran the OCCT to simulate a worst case scenario CPU/thermal load.

In the below graph we can see that the Cryorig H7 has been taken off the graph, with the Noctua NH-D15S failing to keep temperatures under 70 degrees unless the fans were run at their highest speeds. It is clear then that heavy overclocks on our Ryzen 7 1800X will require an AIO liquid cooler to stay under 90 degrees without overly loud fans.

We can see that by using larger liquid coolers that we can decrease the load temperature of our 4GHz R7 1800X to 60 degrees or below, with the largest 280mm liquid coolers like the Corsair H115i and the NZXT X62 providing the best performance.


----

IMHO it would have been more interesting to see the following:

Deepcool Gammax S40 --- <$30
Thermaltake Contac Silent 12 (150W TDP rating) --- < $30 , high exposure on Amazon
Cooler Master 212 Evo w/ AM4 bracket --- $30ish , popular + Microcenter bundles bracket (supposedly 180W TDP rating , likely with 2K rpm fan speed)
Be Quiet Pure Rock (150W TDP rating) --- $30ish

Scythe Ninja 4 w/ AM4 bracket
Scythe Mugen 5 , Mugen Max , Mugen 4 , w/ AM4 bracket
Scythe Fuma w/ AM4 bracket
Cryorig H5 w/ AM4 bracket (rated for 160W TDP)

Be Quiet Dark Rock 3 w/ AM4 bracket (rated for 190W TDP)
Noctua NH-U14S SE AM4 (220W capable per http://noctua.at/en/tdp-guide)
Thermalright true Spirit 140 Direct , built after Jan 2017 (rated for 200W per Thermalright)
Thermalright Macho Direct , built after Jan 2017 (rated for 200W per Thermalright)
Thermalright Macho 120 Rev A w/ AM4 bracket (rated for 200W TDP per Thermalright)
Thermalright Macho Rev B w/ AM4 bracket (rated for 240W per Thermalright)
Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power w/ AM4 bracket (rated for 360W)

alphacool Eisbaer with AM4 bracket / Be Quiet silent Loop <--- for Ryzen 7
Swiftech H220 X2 w/ AM4 bracket <--- for Ryzen 7
EK Predator 240 / 280 / 360 w/ AM4 bracket <--- for Ryzen 7

Of course there's a immense difference between a CPU at 1.4V versus one at 1.25ish V for 3.8 or 3.9GHz , since power goes up proportionally with square of voltage but linearly with frequency

----

Per Anandtech's findings on http://www.anandtech.com/show/11244/the-amd-ryzen-5-1600x-vs-core-i5-review-twelve-threads-vs-four/2 , dropping to 3.7GHz requires less than half the power of 4 GHz on the Ryzen 7 1800X / Ryzen 5 1600X
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Interesting information. Thanks for posting.

But it is not a cooler to cooler comparison .. it is instead a comparison of how different coolers perform in a given system.

I started seeing red lights and and hearing alarm bells as soon as I saw OC3D results showing CLCs having 5c cooler temps than D15S at stock settings in your posted graphs. Quick look at review criteria shows their test system is in a Air 240 case in 'a temperature controlled room'. I'll assume this mean they are using room ambient temperature (20c) and not the air temp going into cooler during testing.

Their testing at the very best is only showing us how well their system (in Air 240 case) performs with different coolers. I don't have a system identical to theirs so their test results means nothing to me. I'm more interested in how coolers perform against each other .. as in each receiving the same temperature air going into cooler .. or at the very least using the air temp going into cooler as baseline for delta temps insread of the air temperature of room test system is in .. which obviously is not the same as cooler intake air temp.
mad.gif


IMHO scratch that .. It is a fact that testing of coolers inside a system using air temperature of 'a temperature controlled room' for baseline air temperature gives us no idea how coolers are actually performing against each other. To know how the cooler perform we have to have testing based on cooler intake air temp. We need this to rule out the effects of case and system have on the airflow temp going into cooler. Therefore we have no idea how well each cooler performed, only how each cooler performed in their specific test system .. so unless you have an identical system OC3d test results are virtually worthless.

Using a case with 2x 140mm intake and 1x 140mm exhaust fans for air coolers versus 2x 140mm intake and 1x 140mm exhaust fans then adding the CLC fans to other vents as intake/exhaust changes case airflow dramatically.

Each air coolers' fan and airflow can also dramatically change the case airflow .. and any change in case airflow almost always changes the cooler intake air temperature

If we change the cooler intake airflow 3c, the CPU temp will be 3c warmer .. 6c warmer air into cooler results in 6c warmer CPU temp. While this is difference is not always exactly a 1:1 ratio, it is very close.

Custom loops air temp changes are not 1:1 .. it can be 5c change in air temp to 1c change in CPU temp .. all depends on components and water temp. I do not know how much closer to the 1:1 ratio CLCs are .. not even enough to guess.

But the changes in case airflow in air 240 with different air coolers is going to be noticeable .. I have seen 4-7c differences in cooler intake air temp depending on case airflow setup and what air cooler is being used. I'm sure their case testing of CLCs versus air cooler is at least as much more.

Last I knew the EK Predator is no longer being sold.
Mid-range coolers like H5, TRUE Spirit Direct, H7 (wish the new H7 Quad w/ 4x 6mm heatpipes was out), Macho Direct, etc do a very good job and are only a few degrees below top tier coolers lke Dark Rock Pro3, NH-D15S, R1, Silver Arrow IB-E, PH-TC14PE, TRUE Spirit 140 Power, NH-U14S, Archon IB-E X2, etc.
I would like to see testing of all the above based on airflow temp into cooler ..
adding Alphacool, be quiet! Silent Loop, Swiftech X2, etc all with same size radiator too. I don't care about CLCs and their test results. Maybe I'm too picky, but I want an AIO with a fill port, proper fittings, copper radiator .. a system I can maintain with components I can replace if needed.
tongue.gif
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: EMUracing

·
⤷ αC
Joined
·
11,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The reason why I posted it is because it suggests a Cryorig H7 with 140W TDP isn't enough to cool a Ryzen 5 in a ventilated case. Many people had conjecture that 1.4V on Ryzen 7 is too much for midrange air cooling.

I suppose this is why Ryzen 7 review kits were sent out with the NH-U12S with industrial 2000RPM fans instead of the NH-U12S SE AM4.

If you look at the Anandtech page, cores at 4.1GHz (XFR) use ~ 22W , cores at 4GHz use ~21W while dropping down to 3.7GHz goes down to about 13W-14W. The memory controller and other non-core power appears to be up to 20W or so. This assumes the automatic voltage that Ryzen requests.
i.e. for 8 cores at 4.1GHz, we would expect 8 x 22W + 20W = 196W
8 cores at 4.0GHz : 8 x 21W + 20W = 188W
8 cores at 3.7GHz : 8 x 14W + 20W = 132W
6 cores at 4.1GHz : 6 x 22W + 20W = 152W
6 cores at 4.0GHz : 6 x 21W + 20W = 146W <--- Cryorig H7 TDP rating exceeded
6 cores at 3.7GHz : 6 x 14W + 20W = 104W
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

The reason why I posted it is because it suggests a Cryorig H7 with 140W TDP isn't enough to cool a Ryzen 5 in a ventilated case. Many people had conjecture that 1.4V on Ryzen 7 is too much for midrange air cooling.

I suppose this is why Ryzen 7 review kits were sent out with the NH-U12S with industrial 2000RPM fans instead of the NH-U12S SE AM4.
While would not put an H7 on a Ryzen 7, it does not make their testing valid. The point is their testing proves nothing because we have no idea how 'well ventilated' the case is.

They give no data to validate the ventilation of the case except to say it has 3x 140mm fans in it .. we have no idea what the air temp going into cooler is, therefore we have no idea how good or bad the case airflow is.

While I think the NH-U12S with a 2000rpm fan is probably capable of cooling the Ryzen 7, why Ryzen review kits were sent with NH-U12S & IPPC 2000rpm fans could be any of a number of possible reasons. Maybe Noctua wanted to unload a bunch of NH-U12S coolers and an equal number of IPPC 2000rpm fans.

Here is a review showing NH-U1S being 2c warmer than H7 on an Intel Core i7-4770K @ 4.2GHz

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CRYORIG/H7_Universal/6.html

But again, it is a test done in a case based on room air temperatures, not the actual temperature of air going into cooler.

Point is neither your or my review links and data prove anything about cooler against cooler performance.because neither review is testing coolers on their own .. but testing how coolers perform in a specific system.
 

·
⤷ αC
Joined
·
11,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well as far as the TDP goes, I've seen many sources (i.e. screenshots of hwinfo64 and buildzoid's testing) stating 100-110A was needed for 4.0GHz. 110A*1.4V = 154W , which is much lower than what you would get by Anandtech's auto voltage per core numbers

Have you seen any other reviews comparing coolers on Ryzen?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Well as far as the TDP goes, I've seen many sources (i.e. screenshots of hwinfo64 and buildzoid's testing) stating 100-110A was needed for 4.0GHz. 110A*1.4V = 154W , which is much lower than what you would get by Anandtech's auto voltage per core numbers

Have you seen any other reviews comparing coolers on Ryzen?
Yeah, I've seen a few showing the same 110A, but none for Ryzen yet.

We both know stock TDP has little to do with overclocked / high voltage heat.

Sadly I have not seen any Ryzen testing under coolers, but some cooler companies are just now getting a stock of AM4 mounts .. Sure would have been nice if AMD had released the offical mount specifications at least a few months ahead of Ryzen release instead of same day as release.
mad.gif


I moved from AMD to Intel years ago, but Ryzen looks good .. might be time to move back.
wink.gif
 

·
⤷ αC
Joined
·
11,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
By the way , it's supposedly 110A for 4GHz all cores (i.e. overclocked to the so-called "safe" voltage wall). For XFR it's only on two cores.



and
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/
On the high-end models the actual (effective) voltage for the base frequency (e.g. 3.6GHz on 1800X SKU) can be anything between 1.200 - 1.300V. Meanwhile the actual (effective) voltage for the highest single core boosted PState (XFR, e.g. 4.1GHz) can be as high as 1.47500V.
...
In the tested sample the actual default voltage for the base frequency (P0, 3.6GHz) was ~1.25000V, while the highest single core boost state (XFR, 4.1GHz) defaulted to 1.4625V.
 

·
⤷ αC
Joined
·
11,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Interesting results on youtube with lower Ryzen CPUs

Quadcore


Quad with SMT


Hexcore with SMT






Cinebench R15 (~80W load) with Cryorig H7 Quad




Quote:
idle 41° - 44° (fan max speed) full load 69° - 73° (fan max speed) hardware: CPU RYZEN 5 1600 OC @3.6Ghz 1.3v Motherboard MSI B350M GAMING PRO Memory Patriot Viper 4 16GB 3400MHz (running 3200MHz)
Prime95 FMA3

Ryzen 7
https://techbuyersguru.com/cpu-liquid-cooler-shootout-pushing-limits?page=2



(load at wall)

Intro to the Arctic, Cryorig, Noctua, Scythe & SilverStone Ryzen Air Cooler Shootout ... all talk and no data yet.
rolleyes.gif

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
I have a Ryzen 5 1600 OC 3.9 @ 1.5V, corsair ram 16g @ 3200mhz on a msi b350 gaming pro mobo. I used the stock heatsink for a while then switched to deepcool gammaxx 400 cpu heatsink with notcua's 3000 rpm 120mm fan and I played bf1 for hours on a 1080 144mhz @ 1440p, and the highest temp on the package has reached 71C. I just wanted to share my experience.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2overclock View Post

I have a Ryzen 5 1600 OC 3.9 @ 1.5V, corsair ram 16g @ 3200mhz on a msi b350 gaming pro mobo. I used the stock heatsink for a while then switched to deepcool gammaxx 400 cpu heatsink with notcua's 3000 rpm 120mm fan and I played bf1 for hours on a 1080 144mhz @ 1440p, and the highest temp on the package has reached 71C. I just wanted to share my experience.
Was cooler fan at full speed?
What case and case fans do you have and their speeds?
How loud is our system?

I ask because I've tested many coolers with stock and high speed fans like NF-A12 iPPC 3000rpm an found the difference on a high heat CPU was 8-10c, which is niice .. but the noise level to get the 8-10c better cooling was 4-8 times louder, which to me was way too loud, so I run fans at lower speed and lower the overclock 200-400MHz and ran 3.8-4.0GHz instead of 4.2GHz. I didn't notice any difference in performance, even on long encoding sessions it was only a few minutes in an hour or so of encoding. But then I don't like a lot of noise.
biggrin.gif
 

·
Shooting down fallacies
Joined
·
8,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2overclock View Post

I have a Ryzen 5 1600 OC 3.9 @ 1.5V, corsair ram 16g @ 3200mhz on a msi b350 gaming pro mobo. I used the stock heatsink for a while then switched to deepcool gammaxx 400 cpu heatsink with notcua's 3000 rpm 120mm fan and I played bf1 for hours on a 1080 144mhz @ 1440p, and the highest temp on the package has reached 71C. I just wanted to share my experience.
So, we have a user successfully cooling a 1600 with a $24USD air cooler......yet OC3D basically says it can't be cooled with any air cooler. That's some top notch reviewing right there.
rolleyes.gif
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

So, we have a user successfully cooling a 1600 with a $24USD air cooler......yet OC3D basically says it can't be cooled with any air cooler. That's some top notch reviewing right there.
rolleyes.gif
Not sure which 'reviewer' you are rolling your eyes at.
tongue.gif
 

·
Shooting down fallacies
Joined
·
8,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Not sure which 'reviewer' you are rolling your eyes at.
tongue.gif
The one saying that Ryzen can't be air cooled....despite the fact that users are doing it with no issues. Same site that was running "AMD will be bankrupt by 2020" headlines a couple of days ago. Hmmmm....I see a trend...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
well the 3000rpm fan can be loud and yes it runs @ 100% when cpu temps reaches 50c ( I set that fan curve), but I find that it's the evga's sc 1080 fans much more loud because i set the curve to crank it at 100% when gpu temps reaches 60c so the video card can reach up to 76c
 

·
⤷ αC
Joined
·
11,278 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
3000 RPM Fan... No thanks.

Even at 1200ish RPM I start to hear top tier fans let alone Cooler Master ones...

Also you need to mention the loading used (with approximate power to CPU). I believe R 5 1600 series should use about 120W when overclocked.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Yeah, no idea why they said it can't be air cooled .. might have something to do with all the CLC's they were testing.
Quote:
When overclocking our R5 1600X we can see that the affordable Cryorig H7 was simply unable to keep up with the heat output of our R5 1600X at 4GHz. It seems that 1.4V core voltages are simply too much for small air coolers, with lower voltages and/or clock speeds being required for an overclocked 1600X to run on lower-end air coolers.
What is this 'we'? Must have a mouse in his pocket because there is nothing posted for H7 @ 4GHz. D15S is only 2c difference between between 7v and 12v fan speed .. and 6c cooler than H7 on stock CPU. OC'ed D15S is 11-12c warmer reaching 62c max. I wonder why H7 couldn't keep CPU below 80c.
thinking.gif
I've seen claims of "hitting 3.8 1.375v and it works".
https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/228138-ryzen-stock-cooler-vs-cryorig-h7

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

3000 RPM Fan... No thanks.

Even at 1200ish RPM I start to hear top tier fans let alone Cooler Master ones...

Also you need to mention the loading used (with approximate power to CPU). I believe R 5 1600 series should use about 120W when overclocked.
Indeed!. I start hearing fans at about 1000rpm and 1200rpm is about as loud as I ever want to hear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

3000 RPM Fan... No thanks.

Even at 1200ish RPM I start to hear top tier fans let alone Cooler Master ones...

Also you need to mention the loading used (with approximate power to CPU). I believe R 5 1600 series should use about 120W when overclocked.
They're not as loud as you think, I am using Noctua's 3000 Industrial 120mm fans, and I find the video card's fan much more loud.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,612 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2overclock View Post

They're not as loud as you think, I am using Noctua's 3000 Industrial 120mm fans, and I find the video card's fan much more loud.
Here is NF-A12 iPPC 3000rpm at 5v and up

Here is TY-147A at 1100rpm .. and I keep mine about 200rpm slower.
wink.gif


Here is PH-F140SP at full speed 1200rpm

Here is NF-A15 at 1300rpm

Here is PH-F140HP_II (same as PH-F140MP in round housing vs MP square) at 1100rpm

Admittedly the sound quality is not all that ideal / accurate, but at least it gives us an idea of how they sound.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2overclock View Post

I have a Ryzen 5 1600 OC 3.9 @ 1.5V, corsair ram 16g @ 3200mhz on a msi b350 gaming pro mobo. I used the stock heatsink for a while then switched to deepcool gammaxx 400 cpu heatsink with notcua's 3000 rpm 120mm fan and I played bf1 for hours on a 1080 144mhz @ 1440p, and the highest temp on the package has reached 71C. I just wanted to share my experience.
1.5v - you wanting to kill to your chip and mobo? what are your motherboard temps running that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

So, we have a user successfully cooling a 1600 with a $24USD air cooler......yet OC3D basically says it can't be cooled with any air cooler. That's some top notch reviewing right there.
rolleyes.gif
playing a game is not the same as running an abnormal load like OCCT for 30mins. OCCT subjects the CPU to loads that you are unlikely to get, heck even with my protein structure software running for 8 hours doesn't get the CPU as hot as OCCT for 30mins. 71C is still pretty hot for just playing a game. when my 1700 was cooled with a gammax 400 I didn't see temps over 60 playing games 3.9 @1.325v

what OC3D should have said that under extreme CPU testing conditions, the cryorig H7 was unable to keep temps down to a reasonable level. The H7 is only £4-6 more expensive than the gammax 400 but the fan is not as good. put a better fan on it and it would probably improve the results.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top