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I found out that tFAW, tWRRD_sg and tWRRD_dg tightened makes my RAM heats way more then the other subtimings, any explanation to this?
 

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My current daily with my older 3600-16 sticks 2x16
Waiting for the new Gskill 4266c17 2x16 sticks to arrive :)
4500.jpg
4500c18.JPG
 

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Let me remind you, I am from Russia, I have already done material for "ours", but I will tell you about setting up rtl too. I use google translate, so don't hit hard :) I hope it will be intuitively clear. Love, Alexander or just Gen. :)

Introduction
Greetings to all.
Everyone was waiting, everyone wanted a clear guide to setting up an RTL block.
Theory
What is an RTL block? This is our memory training in the correct mode of its operation. Correct RTL = IOL + IOL Offset <= 28 (e.g. 7-21, 6-21 or 5-21). As a rule, the ratio should be 7-21, not 6-21. Since with IOL = 6, a specific memory may simply not be stable, but the same memory released even in the same week / year is stable. If anyone decides to swoop down on 5-21, I will disappoint you a little. Such low combinations are available, as a rule, only at low memory frequencies. This is somewhere up to 3200 MHz RAM frequency. Also, I do not recommend underestimating the IOL Offset and raising the IOL. It turned out that, in general, this will not change anything much (for example, combinations of 14-14 or 13-14), but in SuperPi 7-21 it will be faster than 14-14.
Hope that something was clear.
Recommendations
Further, I do not recommend making the difference in IOL, even if the RTL is on par (for example, IOL 7-7, RTL 60-60 (60-61 / 60-62). That is, we do either 6-6 or 7-7.
Exceptions are boards such as: ASUS PRIME Z390 / Z490, TUF Z390 / Z490, STRIX Z390 / Z490. They may even have 7-7 and 59-58, in this case I recommend doing 6-7 58-58. There are Z390 GIGABYTE boards, where the RTL block at 4000+ simply does not start (it will be 13-13, 14-14, even 15-15 sometimes), which is the reason for this, only the BIOS shell writers know.
There are also Z490 boards (MSI, less often ASUS), where IOL 7-7 will simply not start at any frequency. While you can try 8-8, you must correct the BIOS soon, then everything will work correctly and correctly.
What else I would like to say ... Sometimes it is useful to throw VCCIO / VCCSA voltages for a more successful training (for Z170-Z390 ~ 1.35V / 1.4V, for Z490 ~ 1.38V / 1.45V). I'm talking now specifically about training, then you can set Memory Fast Boot = Enabled / No training.
And last but not least, DO THE CORRECT TRAINING BEFORE SETTING THE TIMINGS, because with 8-8 ++ you can be stable, but with the right training, you won't (more often it concerns some Z270 (ASRock, MSI) and Z490 (GIGABYTE) boards) ...
Explanations of what and where
Well, now let's get down to the very essence:
RTL block decoding:
CHA - channel A (1/3 for cards with 4 RAM slots (existing))
CHB - channel B (2/4 for cards with 4 RAM slots (existing))
D0 - first DIMM (needed for both SR and DR)
D1- second DIMM (needed for DR and only)
R0 - the first RANK (needed for both SR and DR)
R1- second RANK (needed for DR and only)
P.S. SR - single rank - memory chips are soldered on one side; DR - dual rank - memory chips are soldered on both sides.
P.S.S. ASRock Timing Configuration for boards with two RAM slots can display 2 strips in A or B channel - we do not pay attention.
RTL setup
We set RTL Init according to the formula = 2 * CL + 35. 35 = Constanta (IOL Offset (21) + IOL Init (4) + 10 (Constanta). More often this is a suitable option, sometimes 2 * CL + 37 helps (Auto Z490 MSI sets this way, ASUS can set the formula itself or sky-high values For GIGABYTE boards, skip this step, because this is not in it, and it sets some of its bad values. Set IOL Offset 21-21 (IO_Latency_offset for ASUS boards, IO Compensation for MSI boards) for A and B channels (on GIGABYTE only available on XOC BIOS Z490) Set RFR Delay 14-14 for A and B channels (for ASUS and GIGABYTE boards) Other parameters are in Auto.
For ASUS, MSI boards, we set the following parameters:
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
Always. Permanent. They can help to train the memory in auto-mode (already correctly from the first or second time).
Then “press” F10-Enter and go back to the BIOS. We go into the RTL block and look for, for example, such a picture (for example, ASUS APEX XI with 4533-CL17-CR1 and SR memory):
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHA) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHB) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [66]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [65]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [12]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [10]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
The above training is incorrect, because we know that our IOLs should be 6-6 or 7-7.
What to do? From the IOL of channel A, which is 12, we subtract 7 (correct IOL) to get a number that must also be subtracted from the RTL of channel A. 12-7 (correct IOL) = 5. From the RTL of channel A, subtract 5, namely 66 -5 = 61. Our RTL-IOL for Channel A will be 61-7. We do the same with the B channel. We get 62-7. We enter the correct values.
It should look like this:
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHA) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM IOL INIT VALUE (CHB) [4] - available on ASUS Z490 (not on Z390 and earlier)
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 69 on the left (this is our RTL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [Auto] (will be 4 on the left (this is our IOL Init (just a pointer))
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
Then “press” F10-Enter and go back to the BIOS. For ASUS boards, you can then do it like this:
DRAM RTL INIT value [69]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [61]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [62]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM RTL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHA DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank0) [7]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM0 Rank1) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank0) [0]
DRAM IOL (CHB DIMM1 Rank1) [0]
CHA IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHB IO_Latency_offset [21]
CHA RFR delay [14]
CHB RFR delay [14]
That is, put “zeros” where we do not use ranks and dimms. For the rest of the boards, just fix the values.
Then you can try 60-6, 61-6, but it is easy to lose stability at such a low CL and high frequency.
Conclusion
Hopefully now it is better to understand how to set up the RTL block. If you have any questions, be sure to write, I might add something, the drug is open or directly on the forum.
 

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This is my 4700c17 daily settings on Apex z490 xii.
So 5.5 Ghz on the cores is not daily :p
I see IO and SA are very low for that mem speed.
 

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My current daily with my older 3600-16 sticks 2x16
Same settings, but different results. I have HT disabled, if that could be the reason. I guess we can't trust AIDA64 bench from a singel run alone.
Edit : Well I have set RTL and IOL....

2465628
 

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You have some weak results on APEX XII. I achieved 4533 18-18 1.45V on the Z490 Tomahawk + 10400.
The IMC in my 10900K is probably weaker than yours is, or I can't cool it enough (360 AIO). My sticks have been tested on an other Z490 Apex board, and he got them to 4533 16-17-17 tweaked just fine. AIDA 72/72 GB/s and 33.5ns if I remember correctly :)

Edit : But my sticks requires alot more VDIMM too, so not the best samples out there.
 

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I used 4400 16-17-34-2T 1.53V / IO 1.3 / SA 1.36. 4533 18-18-38-2Т 1.45V / IO 1.36 / Sa 1.45 for passing tm5 extreme1
 

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The IMC in my 10900K is probably weaker than yours is, or I can't cool it enough (360 AIO). My sticks have been tested on an other Z490 Apex board, and he got them to 4533 16-17-17 tweaked just fine. AIDA 72/72 GB/s and 33.5ns if I remember correctly :)

Edit : But my sticks requires alot more VDIMM too, so not the best samples out there.
Wow, that's pretty good latency. My current sticks don't like more than about 1.45vdimm but hopefully the new ones will
I have not tried the voltage below. Let me remind you that I have a Z490 Tomahawk + i5 10400. DR 4400CL16
Pretty good results, especially considering it's cheaper hardware (y)
What model are the sticks?
 

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munternet said:
Pretty good results, especially considering it's cheaper hardware (y)
What model are the sticks?
Yes, the motherboard was bought in July 2020, the processor is also (has SRH78 - IMC 10900K), sticks are indicated in CPU-Z (F4-3000C14D-32GTZR). Do you understand me well? I just use google translator
 

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Yes, the motherboard was bought in July 2020, the processor is also (has SRH78 - IMC 10900K), sticks are indicated in CPU-Z (F4-3000C14D-32GTZR). Do you understand me well? I just use google translator
Yeah I can understand you perfectly fine.
 

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4800mhz with 1T must have been with a 2 x 8gb setup right? What's the highest stable frequency you could reach with 1T and 2 x 16gb dimms? 2 x 16gb @ 4000mhz + 1T is still nearly impossible with the Z490 Apex, if EVGA's Dark Kingpin can manage that I'd love to hear about it.
I could do 3866 ratio and 102.1 bclk with 2x16 and 1t, but don't have the memory anymore. 4800 1t was 2x8.
 

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Is there sort of a consensus "best" kit to buy to play around with at the moment? It's been a few years now since I've bought memory. My best kit I've been able to get 4133 17-17-38-1N out of on an 8700K/Maximus X Apex and my current 9900K/Z390 Dark.

I guess I'm just wanting to buy the best memory I can get for running the highest speeds/tightest timings. Even if I can't reach the kits potential on this system, hopefully I can on the next one.

Kits I've considered, all G Skill:

32 GB 4266C17D 1.5V
16 GB 4600C18D 1.45V
16 GB 4400C16D 1.5V

What are some opinions on dual rank vs single rank? Is there a performance gain if the system has 4 total ranks as opposed to 2? If there is, is it worth the decrease in speed and increase in timings due to 16 GB modules? That's the reason the 32 GB kit is on my list.

Any opinions on these kits, or suggestions on other kits? Thanks.
 

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Is there sort of a consensus "best" kit to buy to play around with at the moment? It's been a few years now since I've bought memory. My best kit I've been able to get 4133 17-17-38-1N out of on an 8700K/Maximus X Apex and my current 9900K/Z390 Dark.

I guess I'm just wanting to buy the best memory I can get for running the highest speeds/tightest timings. Even if I can't reach the kits potential on this system, hopefully I can on the next one.

Kits I've considered, all G Skill:

32 GB 4266C17D 1.5V
16 GB 4600C18D 1.45V
16 GB 4400C16D 1.5V

What are some opinions on dual rank vs single rank? Is there a performance gain if the system has 4 total ranks as opposed to 2? If there is, is it worth the decrease in speed and increase in timings due to 16 GB modules? That's the reason the 32 GB kit is on my list.

Any opinions on these kits, or suggestions on other kits? Thanks.
Wait for 3800C14D-32GTZN
 

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So I might have somehow bricked windows. Got the memory to pass memtest overnight and then made the mistake of using AI Suite to see if I could lower VCCIO and VCCSA.

It passed 112ffts for 15 minutes so I thought it’s probably stable and I should restart and set those values in bios.

Well I couldn’t even get past post. Weird clicky noises at the Bios logo followed by getting stuck at Windows logo. Three restarts it goes into preparing startup repair but ends up in a black screen after which.

My guess is the Nvidia driver got corrupted bad. Thinking of what my options are now.

Edit : it seems the bcd files got corrupted. Any ideas? Apart from a clean install.
 

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Odd clicky noises seem to happen on all cold boots. Tried everything from startup repair to system restore and even bcdedit from cmd. Even safe mode gets stuck at windows logo.

Trying a OS reset now. At this point I can’t tell if it’s windows or possibly hardware. Everything in recovery menus seem incredibly slow and laggy. Takes 5 mins to load up the recovery screen. NVME or CPU are the only culprits I can think of.
 

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Odd clicky noises seem to happen on all cold boots. Tried everything from startup repair to system restore and even bcdedit from cmd. Even safe mode gets stuck at windows logo.

Trying a OS reset now. At this point I can’t tell if it’s windows or possibly hardware. Everything in recovery menus seem incredibly slow and laggy. Takes 5 mins to load up the recovery screen. NVME or CPU are the only culprits I can think of.
I've experienced the same freezing during the windows logo loading animation during boot after trying out overly agressive memory timings. In my case the issue was a corrupt boot sector / bcd files (not sure on the proper terminology). Windows has a built-in startup repair module, but I wasn't having any luck with it at all. What did work for me however was using a third party utility to repair windows start up files. I've had success with Macrium Reflect most recently, but also Parted Magic the prior time I experienced this same issue. I think you can probably get away with creating a Microsoft Windows recovery drive instead of either of these third party options. These tool have a much better chance of fixing your startup issues since they all involve booting and running off of an external USB drive to complete the process. Repairing a corrupt operating system with it's own repair tools will not work if the file corrupt is significant.

Obviously none of what I've mentioned above will matter if your issue stems from hardware failure, hopefully that's not the case.
 

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Odd clicky noises seem to happen on all cold boots. Tried everything from startup repair to system restore and even bcdedit from cmd. Even safe mode gets stuck at windows logo.

Trying a OS reset now. At this point I can’t tell if it’s windows or possibly hardware. Everything in recovery menus seem incredibly slow and laggy. Takes 5 mins to load up the recovery screen. NVME or CPU are the only culprits I can think of.
Memory overclocking seems to damage the OS a fair bit
I've had to reload it from my spare M.2 using acronis about 10 times after corrupting Windows
 

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Thanks. Seems like I was doing the wrong thing, creating a recovery disk instead of the installation media.

There were no options to repair with the recovery disk. I don’t have a spare gpu to boot into windows either or that would have been my first course of action.

Best part is I can’t get the igpu on my 10700k to work at all. Might have been a defect from the beginning.
 
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