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Eh, Wha?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi! I've been building computers for quite some time and have shied away from liquid for several reasons, however with my next rig I have decided air cooling is no longer practical and we all know that TEC/phase-change and practical computers just don't get along. I will therefore be building my first liquid system. I have spent several days in research and have decided on all but a single, albeit important, factor: tubing layout.

My liquid cooling system will consist of a single powerful external platform and 3/8 ID 5/8 OD tubing. I will be cooling my Core i7, mobo chipset, and a GTX295 (with plans for a future GTX295 in SLI).

I am curious as to your more experienced opinions on how to best route my tubing to best cool these components.

For the sake of relevance, please refrain from posting off topic or impractical comments. Thank you for your insight.
 
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well its hard to say what would be the best tubing layout since we don't know what case you are using, where the rad is, etc.

what we can tell you is a general idea of the order of your components.
most of us usually go from:

res/t-line-> pump-> rad-> cpu-> NB(optional)-> gpu(optional)-> back to res/t-line

not sure if that was what you meant.
 

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Eh, Wha?
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm definitely going hooking up my cpu, northbridge, and gpu(s). The question is weather i should simply set them up in serial or try something fancy with splitters.

Keep in mind that both the Core i7 processor and the gtx 295(s) are extremely hot devices.

And yes, I intend on moderate to heavy overclocking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes I was thinking the same things. The path of least resistance also makes sense, I hadn't thought of that one myself. However I am unsure if a single radiator can cool a second 295 in sli after already being heated by the core i7, chipset, and first 295. Would it be wise to add a second small radiator (mounted perhaps in a drive bay) between the chipset and the video cards or would the increased resistance deminish the preformance more than the partial cooling from a small radiator would help?
 

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With your future plans on adding a 295 I'd suggest you run a triple or double rad for the cpu/chipset and a triple for the two videocards and maybe even run two loops for better heat loss. And 3/8" ID for that big of a loop would definitely kill your flow anyways so go for atleast 7/16" ID or better still 1/2" ID.

I would run it like: Res>pump>rad>cpu>chipset>rad>videocard(s)>res

I'm not sure about your components or how "hardcore" you wanna go with this though. A list of components would help.


My 2cents
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's what I was thinking ( res pump rad cpu chipset rad gpu res) and I'm also begining to think that 1/2 ID tubing will be better. The reason I havnt specified much about the system is simply because I have not actually decided on several of my components. The reason I want an external platform is of course because of the added preformance due to having more space for larger radiators and such, however if you think it is possible to get good results internally without blocking all of the case airflow I would be more than willing to implement that instead. As for tubing, I had originaly prefered 1.2 ID tubing but after searching local retailers and various online shops, it appeared to me that 3/8 ID 5/8 OD tubing would provide better resistance against kinking and more options for fittings (I rather like the look of compressions and a quick release would of course be useful for any external). I can be a bit vain and rather dislike the look of writing on my tubing, fogged or colored tubing, and anti kink coils. Quick releases will of course not be necessary if the system can be internal and I can live with barbs if absolutly necessary but it is important the tubing be clear, unprinted, and kink resistant. One last complication is that the motherboard I will be using is equipted with 3/8 ID non removable barbs on its chipset so if I switched to 1/2 ID tubing I would need to implement a reducer. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 

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They make compression fittings for 1/2 id 3/4 od tubing. Bitspower is the maker and they are damn nice pieces of kit. As for the rest of your loop, why don't you tell us a little about what you are trying to do. Whats your budget for the components, what case are you gonna use, how much noise can you tolerete, ect..., and we can make some suggestions to help you along the way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
1/2 id 3/4 OD compression fittings? sounds great! you'll have to point me towards where to find them though all I've found in terms of 1/2 ID compressions are 5/8 OD which I assume is too thin a tube wall to support a 1/2 ID tube without kinking... and I'd really love to avoid anti-kink coils i think they're ugly.

Anyway I'm currently thinking of the following items:
Case: Thermaltake Spedo Advance Package
Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-EX58-EXTREME
CPU: BX80601920 (2.66 GHz Intel Core i7)
RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR3 2000 12GB
GPU: BFGTech GTX 295 H2O (x2 when price drops and extra performance would be beneficial)
PSU: CORSAIR 1000HX
Hard Drives: PQI 32GB SSD, WD Velociraptor 300gb, WD Caviar Black (x2 in RAID 1)
Sound Card: AuzenTech X-Fi Forte 7.1
Disk Drives: Sony DRU865S DVD Burner, LG GGC-H20L Blu-ray player

Note that the motherboard requires 3/8 ID tubing. I would prefer to liquid cool this mobo but if it would be too much of a problem there is a heatsinked version I can pick up instead.

Were I to build an internal cooling system I would need some advice as to mounting. As you can tell there will be a large amount of internal hardware which is not connected to the liquid cooler, and as such I will require at least some of the air cooling to remain intact. There may also be issues in terms of space in which to mount the cooling hardware in the case due to the high component count and the Spedo's heat dividers (I'm still debating weather to actually use all of them or only the bottom one).

I'd prefer not to hear the liquid system over the sound of my case fans and drives, which should not prove to be too difficult. I would also prefer the system to be internal if you believe it would be practical to do so. I am willing to try more complicated ideas than a standard res pump rad series but keep in mind this will be my first liquid build. I would also very much appreciate any savings in cost - as you can tell my system is already quite expensive and I would prefer to not make it much higher. Most important of course if performance and safety. If it comes down to making it external, slightly louder, or even a few more bucks, I'm more than willing to in order insure smooth operation.

Take a stab at it and let me know what you come up with. Thanks for all your input thus far and anything to come in advance.

PS- I am extremely vain after investing a certain amount of time, effort, and cash into a project and this will easily cross all three thresholds. Nothing ugly please ;D
 

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i would say a good single or double for the cpu/chipset (believe me a good one will hold it down) and a good double or triple for the gpu's. a double will cool your single 295 right now, but you might want ot think about a triple for the future, or you could just add another when the time comes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr papadakalis View Post
i would say a good single or double for the cpu/chipset (believe me a good one will hold it down) and a good double or triple for the gpu's. a double will cool your single 295 right now, but you might want ot think about a triple for the future, or you could just add another when the time comes.
Thanks. what are your thoughts on the 3/8 ID chipset barbs? simply use a reducer in the series? It seams to me that doing to would cause a lot of back pressure as well as killing pressure to the GPUs. I've pondered using a splitter after the cpu so that only a small portion of the liquid passes through the chipset and then combining the two paths again before the GPU to rebuild pressure for them... no idea if that's actually practical though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks that gives me some nice new options.

So whats all this galvanic corrosion business I keep hearing of? any details you could offer would be useful.
 

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Another option would be to run a second loop only for the chipset and have CPU and Video on another. The chipset loop wouldnt need the biggest of pump/rad and you isolate the pressure problem, a single rad should do. A good triple on CPU and GPU with some nice fans should work fine. Thermochill PA 120.3 is proven to be a good triple along with Swiftech MCR320 and Feser 360.

I'm having a bit of struggle getting into your "no compromise on looks" ideology though. Personally I'd be more confident in using regular barbs than compression ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by kimosabi
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Another option would be to run a second loop only for the chipset and have CPU and Video on another. The chipset loop wouldnt need the biggest of pump/rad and you isolate the pressure problem, a single rad should do. A good triple on CPU and GPU with some nice fans should work fine. Thermochill PA 120.3 is proven to be a good triple along with Swiftech MCR320 and Feser 360.

Are you suggesting that without the chipset in the main loop, only a single good rad would be necessary for the i7 and both 295s(with a fair amount of OCing on that i7)? If I can kick out the second rad for that set, and add one of those cheaper looking single fan rad + res combo units for the second loop, I could have 2 loops for the same effective space as one loop with nothing but an extra small pump... very nice. That said I'm wary of cooling three high heat items all on a single uncooled pass in series, but then you guys know better than I do about liquid.

Quote:


Originally Posted by kimosabi
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I'm having a bit of struggle getting into your "no compromise on looks" ideology though. Personally I'd be more confident in using regular barbs than compression ones.


Really? I was under the impression that compressions would actually offer a better seal, assuming of course that the proper time and effort was put into attaching them. Some items, such as the chipset will have to use barbs anyway of course and I am not so entirely picky as to try and change those. I just happen to think compressions look nicer and I was under the impression that they offered a superior seal for the places where I'm picking my own fittings.

Which brings up my latest question: What would you recommend as clamps? I've heard people mention zip ties and worm drives and I personally like the look and price of those Herbie Clips. Zip ties sound a bit cheap to me, and the worm drives look like they could be a pain in the neck not to mention ugly. Do those herbie clips actually offer a good seal?
 

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I'm sorry, I didnt take into consideration that you're running two 295s. That makes things a bit different. Two more GPUs is a huge heatsource so I guess we have a slight problem with your chipset 3/8" ID. The UD3P northbridge doesnt run hot at all and manages well enough with the stock HS. Maybe that applies to your mobo as well? If so we're back to the original plan.


Heres a nice thread on Compression VS Barbs: http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...-vs-barbs.html

Price favors barbs and looks favors compression fittings. I guess either way youre good.
These things are much easier when you have the case and can plan visually. Decide on what case you want and go from there. I always recommend the TJ07 to watercoolers. Love that case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163060
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:


Originally Posted by kimosabi
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I'm sorry, I didnt take into consideration that you're running two 295s. That makes things a bit different. Two more GPUs is a huge heatsource so I guess we have a slight problem with your chipset 3/8" ID. The UD3P northbridge doesnt run hot at all and manages well enough with the stock HS. Maybe that applies to your mobo as well? If so we're back to the original plan.


Well, one 295 for now, another when price drops and some new games come out that will make it worth it. Planning the water kit to be powerful enough for both though so I can just pop a cap off one of the gpus and add it right into the system when I eventually get it. And yes I've heard the new chipsets run nice and cool and likely any liquid cooling on it is overkill unless you're really going for a completely silent no airflow case - which I'm not. I may just swap out this board for the heatsink cooled version and save myself the hassle and some cash (unless anyone knows of any other benefits of the "Extreme" which make it worth the cash over its heatsinked version.

Quote:


Originally Posted by kimosabi
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Price favors barbs and looks favors compression fittings. I guess either way youre good.
These things are much easier when you have the case and can plan visually. Decide on what case you want and go from there. I always recommend the TJ07 to watercoolers. Love that case.

That's a nice case indeed, very solid and lots of opportunity for liquid cooling from what I can tell. That said I just wouldn't be able to see and brag about my sexy acid green UV coolant... oh is Feser One any good btw?

Anyway I'm fairly set on that Spedo Advance Package... I'm not too happy about it's side window design, the fan grill on it, and the plastic but over all it just plain looks sexy The "heat chambers" are more or less useless in terms of actual heat dissipation but the lowest of the three chambers at least is great for hiding the pumps I would imagine. Any thoughts?
 

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I've heard some bad stuff from Robilar on here about that case. I'd PM him for a full specced view on the case first. He has a case fetish and can give you good first hand info on most cases cuz he has owned the majority of most brands.
Also ask him about the mobo chipset temps. I'm sure hes got that covered too.

http://www.overclock.net/member.php?u=9432 <----Robilar

The TJ07 also comes with a window.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163067

Feser one is a good coolant and ready mixed so you dont have to add anything. Just decide on color and fill her up. Make sure you clean all your components before adding coolant though. I take it you've read these but I'll link anyway:

http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...l-threads.html

Colored coolant tend to stain your loop after a while due to the additives in the coolant to make it look better so personally I'm only running distilled water with a few drops of ACFluid anti corrotion.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...name_DJ_Switch

Not sure if that was because of user error though.
 

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Eh, Wha?
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Haha I actually didn't see that window the first time I looked at the case. Guess i was actually looking at the right panal and figured it was the left one cause of the vents along the bottom. It's a very nice case but it is a bit pricey and I'm already over budget with this rig as it is. I'll have to ask about the spedo and find out whats wrong with that and if it actually will effect me all that much. As for that nasty gunk the Feser One turned into that looks disgusting! I can't imagine that being normal though, going to go ahead and attribute that to human error.
 

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Recommended loop order:

res>pump>whatever else makes sense

Res feeding the pump is the only thing that should be considered an absolute (and even that isn't 100% mandatory). The rest of the loop should be routed to minimize tubing and avoid tight bends (which cause resturctions). If you really want the "coolest water" hitting your cpu first, then by all means have the rad feeding the cpu. However any cpu cooling gain is minor compared to maintaining a short and restriction free loop.

In a closed loop system, the water temp will tend to equalize across the entire loop.
 
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