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sudo apt install sl
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Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-alder-lake-hybrid-architecture-desktop/

Intel confirms that Alder Lake, coming 2021, will feature a hybrid computing architecture.

Intel Alder Lake will be a hybrid architecture, Intel confirms. The next-generation client processor architecture, expected to arrive in the second half of 2021 for both mobile and desktop, will be a combination of two CPU architectures: Golden Cove and Gracemont. The aim is to provide an efficient answer for both high performance and high core-count processing for games and productivity tasks. In short, this is Intel's answer to high core-count AMD Ryzen chips.

But Intel tells us Alder Lake, on the desktop at least, is purely tuned for performance.

"While Lakefield was tuned for battery life," Intel reps tell us, "we are advancing our hybrid architecture significantly with a focus on performance for Alder Lake. We are working on next generation hardware guided scheduler, optimized for performance and leveraging all cores seamlessly. Alder Lake will not only be great for performance but our best performance/Watt architecture."
 

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I <3 narcissists
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Something about that makes me feel like they are coming up with something that looks great on paper but will never realize that potential in real world use. Maybe I have lost faith in Intel and am being pessimistic, I dunno.
 

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Robotic Chemist
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They still make the fastest cores around, they have an older process so are less efficient but their architecture cores are still faster than anyone else'es.
Edit: Well, not architecture, but core. Clock for clock AMD is faster.

AMD is finally kicking ass again but it is also way too soon to write off Intel. This will probably be our first Big.little desktop architecture, it will be interesting to see how multi-threaded apps like x265 or Blender work on these. Traditionally each core has been the same speed so x265 does not pay attention to which tasks run better on which cores. I wonder if there will need to be a way to schedule lighter threads on the little cores.
 

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LTSC for life crew
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They say competition is great for consumers because it means performance is expected to increase YOY for companies to stay relevant in the marketplace. I dunno how this favors into that, though I am also thinking it doesn't look like something that will perform at a high level in the real world. When I wanted lots of cores and great all around performance I went out and bought a Ryzen 3900X - I don't get the feeling this is going to be competing at that same tier of product.

Keeping in mind that even Snapdragon processors, which are what most people mention when it comes to big.LITTLE arrangements, are beginning to ditch the many core approach and are focusing on more powerful individual cores.
 

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Robotic Chemist
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I dunno how this favors into that, though I am also thinking it doesn't look like something that will perform at a high level in the real world. When I wanted lots of cores and great all around performance I went out and bought a Ryzen 3900X - I don't get the feeling this is going to be competing at that same tier of product.
Yeah, my intuition agrees. I don't see why little cores would help normal desktop CPUs run multi-threaded workloads better, unless arranged so that it was easier to cool? Breaking up a workload for multi-threading is hard enough without paying attention to asymmetric cores at the same time. Running lightweight tasks on small cores makes sense but for one big multi-threaded task a bunch of similar cores sounds a lot better.

I can see it being better in cooling limited situations but as soon as you don't care about watts it seems like it would be less than helpful. :(

Those big cores better be REALLY fast.
 

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sudo apt install sl
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Discussion Starter #7
I dunno how this favors into that, though I am also thinking it doesn't look like something that will perform at a high level in the real world. When I wanted lots of cores and great all around performance I went out and bought a Ryzen 3900X - I don't get the feeling this is going to be competing at that same tier of product.
Yeah, my intuition agrees. I don't see why little cores would help normal desktop CPUs run multi-threaded workloads better, unless arranged so that it was easier to cool? Breaking up a workload for multi-threading is hard enough without paying attention to asymmetric cores at the same time. Running lightweight tasks on small cores makes sense but for one big multi-threaded task a bunch of similar cores sounds a lot better.

I can see it being better in cooling limited situations but as soon as you don't care about watts it seems like it would be less than helpful. /forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

Those big cores better be REALLY fast.
Intel announced today Tiger Lake is 10% faster than Ice Lake so that puts Willow Cove cores at 28% faster than the 10900k cores clock vs clock. Alder Lake's Golden Cove cores are going to be significantly larger than Sunny Cove/Willow Cove cores.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259653/intel-sunny-cove-successor-significantly-bigger-jim-keller
 

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Robotic Chemist
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Alder Lake's Golden Cove cores are going to be significantly larger than Sunny Cove/Willow Cove cores.
It is really exciting. Those big cores are likely to be really good, but if Intel cannot fit very many on a die will the small cores actually help applications like x265?

They will probably be amazing for gaming and other low (<8) thread count workloads but maybe not that great where AMD is actually better today?
 

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PC Evangelist
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Intel announced today Tiger Lake is 10% faster than Ice Lake so that puts Willow Cove cores at 28% faster than the 10900k cores clock vs clock. Alder Lake's Golden Cove cores are going to be significantly larger than Sunny Cove/Willow Cove cores.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259653/intel-sunny-cove-successor-significantly-bigger-jim-keller
I believe the 10-20% faster than Ice Lake comes from increased IPC and frequency. IPC alone accounts for low single digits over Ice Lake. Even with the new process, don't think it'll clock higher than the 14nm process in the 10900k.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15971/intels-11th-gen-core-tiger-lake-soc-detailed-superfin-willow-cove-and-xelp/3

Pretty detailed breakdown there, intel's slides make it look a lot better.
 

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Vermin Supreme 2020
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ZZzzzZZzZZzzz+++
 

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ZZzzzZZzZZzzz+++
We are all waiting for Intel to pull out another conroe out of its hat. However, intel is in such a mess, unless they have one of those rogue teams around like they did with Israel Team then they are gone i think. AMD really should have won despite Intel paying manufacturers to not use AMD chips back in early 2000s. Intel had nothing going for it except one team in Israel who fought against the Pentium 4 teams and developed what became the Core architecture.
 

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Too early to pass judgement. I wish Intel the best. I love a strong AMD, but we don't need or want AMD to become the defacto king of CPUs for a long time either. I'd prefer these two companies be neck in neck with each other for as long as I grace this earth with my presence.

Which they have to compete with Zen4.
Correct, and this entirely depends on Intel delivering a product on time as per their promises of getting issues under control and back to schedule. This accounts for currently addressed delays.
 

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I hope they get their **** together, we've just been through 10+ years of cpu dominance, its a big loss to the consumer, both companies need to be competitive or we loose with 5% gains year on year and different sockets to give the poor mobo manufacturers a lifeline. I don't believe that a dominant AMD would behave much different then a dominant Intel, I feel its time they put one of their top engineers at the helm(while they still have some) and cut the marketing nonsense. We need CPU's releasing, not slides!
 

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I hope they get their **** together, we've just been through 10+ years of cpu dominance, its a big loss to the consumer, both companies need to be competitive or we loose with 5% gains year on year and different sockets to give the poor mobo manufacturers a lifeline. I don't believe that a dominant AMD would behave much different then a dominant Intel, I feel its time they put one of their top engineers at the helm(while they still have some) and cut the marketing nonsense. We need CPU's releasing, not slides!
What kind of performance do you need/want? Rendering performance or "gaming" performance? What kind of "bottleneck" do you have now, since you want new cpu's to be released?
Love from Norway :)
 

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Otherworlder
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actually it makes sense that golden clove can be massively bigger and faster.
with their transistor budget before, splitting it amongst many big cores they couldn't just beef up the architecture as that would exponentially increase the transistor count and die size.
but what if they only need two or four big cores? while having so few big cores doesn't mean they'll be restricting their multi-thread performance due to the little cores present.

which means they can throw away their transistor restriction and beef up the big core architecture to the best they could have.
as for the little cores, they could simply focus on making them lean and effective, like improving their scaleability and clock speed limit.
 

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Progress on the process side of things, plus I haven't forgotten the 4c/8t ridiculousness and pricing for years on end, for me at least that just makes me drift to AMD. Maybe you think its okay that a company stops innovating(or well fails at it momentarily) because of their own greed. Their goose more or less came home to roast, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. I like to play with hardware and new tech and couldn't care less who makes it.
 

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So Alderlake will use Grace mont which is the successor to Trace mont?


Hopefully we can finally see a huge IPC increase overall in gaming compared to 10900K or 9900K.


Its ok to have just low 4GHz frequency as long as the gaming performance and overall is still 10-20% faster minimum.
 

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I hope they get their **** together, we've just been through 10+ years of cpu dominance, its a big loss to the consumer, both companies need to be competitive or we loose with 5% gains year on year and different sockets to give the poor mobo manufacturers a lifeline. I don't believe that a dominant AMD would behave much different then a dominant Intel, I feel its time they put one of their top engineers at the helm(while they still have some) and cut the marketing nonsense. We need CPU's releasing, not slides!
Dominant in what manner? For AMD to be dominant, they'd need more than just the best DC hardware, upper hand in consumer line processors outside gaming and mobile. Marketshare is what they need. They would have to increase their current shares by 2-2.5x to really skewer Intel and set the landscape. AMD is dominant in mindshare right now, though this may change with Zen 3. I do not for a second believe Intel will be on time to face off Zen 4 on AM5 with rumored new technologies. That said, even when AMD was spanking Intel in the past, I do not recall them releasing incremental updates to best Intel.
 

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Politically incorrect
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You didn't add the correct amount of ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++'s.

Intel's 10nm is going to be far more +++'s than their 14nm the way things are going.
 
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