[Shenhua]

I'd never recommend a corsair commander . There's joking and then there's recommending Corsair. I would recommend the aquaero if you can afford it or a Quadro if you can't, though it does really depend on how many fans you're running. Just a handful and I understand not wanting to spend extra.

Im on a b550 carbon. I have 7 fan ports and i can safely run at least 2 fans per port.
I think MSI might have the best BIOS fan control, and it's just OK.
Al others vary from meh, to "OH!, HELL NO!!!".
Before the b550 carbon i went for a b550 strix F (literally same tier of board). Compared to the MSI, it was PAIN.

---Couldn't run fans lower than 40%, before they stopped. Personally, I'm running bellow that under most loads....
On MSI i can run sw3 120 high speed at 250rpm. That's close to 10%.
--- the carbon has 1 CPU, 5 sys_fan, 1 pump. The strix F, had 1 CPU, 1 CPU opt (it wouldn't even appear in the bios), 1 pump and 3 chasis fan. Funny part is, FANCONTROL would see and let me control the CPU opt fan port.
Tbh a CPU opt fan port nowdays it's just plain dumb..... you can run 2-3 fans on one port safely.....
---Horrible placements......for the fan ports and others too..... and that layout is not new nor unique nor on a handfull of Asus boards.....
Had more issues with that board regarding cooling but i don't remember.....

Srry for the rant, but i just had to take it of my chest.....

Tbh it would still pain me to pay 140€ for and aquero even for a loop, if I'm not running more than 1 pump and a few probes.....
I'm not much of fan of hubs either, because you lose flexibility compared to individual fan ports. So using the motherboard is better for more than 1 reason, but the control it's just bad on most.
Big fan of the Fancontrol thingy by remo0. Been using it for past 2 years....

 

[Owterspace]

Before the b550 carbon i went for a b550 strix F (literally same tier of board). Compared to the MSI, it was PAIN.

---Couldn't run fans lower than 40%, before they stopped. Personally, I'm running bellow that under most loads....

You have to use Q-Fan tuning under the monitor section in the bios. My iPPC 3K fans idle down to 5%, which is about 500rpm. Strix-F is a damn fine board. Not as good as the XE but still pretty good.

 

[Herald]

I ran some tests with the T30 vs A12X25 vs ML120 2400rpm vs some random corsairs I had lying around from an old AIO (it was the h100i i think). The tests were done on a u12a cooler, using a 12900k @ CBR23 10minutes (around 180w peak). Case is fractal torrent, front intake fans at a constant 50%. Not a scientific test, ambient temps arent regulated (but all tests run after 22:00), ambient temperature was between 22-24. Not a huge variation, but there is some. All fans were run at a 100% speed for 1 minute (to drop the idle CPU temp as low as possible) before starting the cbr23 test.

Results

ML120 @ full RPM 80C peak / 77C average

random 10 year old corsairs @ full RPM 84C peak / 81C average

A12x25 @ full RPM 77c peak / 75C average

T30 120s @ 2016 RPM 75C peak / 73C average

T30 120s @ 3000 RPM 71C peak / 69C average


When it comes to noise, hands down the A12s. I can have them running @ full RPM 24/7 no problems. They are audible, but I can bear it. Everything else is just a no go, everything is loud. The T30 @ max RPM are probably the loudest, but the 2 corsair ones are definitely the most irritating to your ears. The T30 @ 2000 rpm is still very audible. It stays in check, at least to my ears, below 1800rpms,and at around 1500 rpm it ties the A12 in terms of noise, at least, again, according to my ears.


EG1.To clarify, the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. As you may well know, the CBR23 loop idles for about 1-2 seconds between every run. That helped the T30 @ 3000 rpms, since it managed to drop the temperature to about 50-52C before every run, while the other fans only managed to drop it to the mid 60s. In a constant 10 minutes load I think the difference would be smaller.

 

[LazyGamer]

When it comes to noise, hands down the A12s. I can have them running @ full RPM 24/7 no problems. They are audible, but I can bear it. Everything else is just a no go, everything is loud. The T30 @ max RPM are probably the loudest, but the 2 corsair ones are definitely the most irritating to your ears. The T30 @ 2000 rpm is still very audible. It stays in check, at least to my ears, below 1800rpms,and at around 1500 rpm it ties the A12 in terms of noise, at least, again, according to my ears.

This is the part that's the most interesting, and the part that's hardest to test - let's say we dropped the T30 was run at 1600-1800 RPM, would the temperature have been the same as well as the level of discomfort from noise?

Thesis being that the T30 would provide near equivalent noise performance at equivalent thermal performance (on a u12a, of course), while also able to scale up in performance beyond what the A12x25 can do.

This would make sense, but would need to be verified

 

[Herald]

This is the part that's the most interesting, and the part that's hardest to test - let's say we dropped the T30 was run at 1600-1800 RPM, would the temperature have been the same as well as the level of discomfort from noise?

Thesis being that the T30 would provide near equivalent noise performance at equivalent thermal performance (on a u12a, of course), while also able to scale up in performance beyond what the A12x25 can do.

This would make sense, but would need to be verified

Yeah, i was going to test that, i just wanted to redo both of those 2 fans in a regulated ambient with around the same noise.

 

[doyll]

VSG did airflow normalized to noise graphs at 750rpm, 1000rpm , 1250rpm and 1500rpm of 17 fans. Phanteks T30 was significantly better than all of competition.
Phanteks T30-120 Fan Review - One Fan to Rule Them All?

Below graphs from TechPowerUP are of 5 of what I consider to be best 120mm fans on the market. Only ones missing are Thermalright.

 

[Owterspace]

I would try them, but they are like 50 bucks each here. I paid like 30-35 for my iPPC 3K's

At full rip the db meter on my phone only said something like 60db so thats not toooo bad

 

[Shawnb99]

VSG did airflow normalized to noise graphs at 750rpm, 1000rpm , 1250rpm and 1500rpm of 17 fans. Phanteks T30 was significantly better than all of competition.
Phanteks T30-120 Fan Review - One Fan to Rule Them All?

Below graphs from TechPowerUP are of 5 of what I consider to be best 120mm fans on the market. Only ones missing are Thermalright.
View attachment 2560529

A 5% improvement in CFM @ 750rpm and 10% @ 1250 isn’t significantly better, it’s a small improvement at the cost of higher noise and being 5mm wider.

A 25mm A12 is significantly better then a 15mm one as well

 

[Always Counterclockwise]

When it comes to noise, hands down the A12s. I can have them running @ full RPM 24/7 no problems.

Interesting. I have also NF-A12x25s on a NH-U12A and they generate a whine above ~1700 RPM which I find fairly annoying. I need to check in free air to see if it's intrinsic to the fans or an interaction with the fins but haven't had time to do so yet.

I would try them, but they are like 50 bucks each here.

I'm interested as well but T30s have been out of stock for me for as long as I've been looking in any functional sense. There's an occasional used one selling around 1.3x MSRP and, in theory at least, an international three pack order is possible at ~1.8x MSRP.

In comparison, NF-A12x25 chromax are in and out of stock at MSRP but generally available. TL-C12s are consistently available at 25–40% of the fancy 120 mm fans' MSRPs and PH-F120MP v2s are consistently available at ~50%.

 

[Herald]

Interesting. I have also NF-A12x25s on a NH-U12A and they generate a whine above ~1700 RPM which I find fairly annoying. I need to check in free air to see if it's intrinsic to the fans or an interaction with the fins but haven't had time to do so yet.

I don't have the case on my desk, it's around 1.5m away from my ears, so that might be why they are absolutely silent for me.

 

[doyll]

A 5% improvement in CFM @ 750rpm and 10% @ 1250 isn’t significantly better, it’s a small improvement at the cost of higher noise and being 5mm wider.

A 25mm A12 is significantly better then a 15mm one as well

5-10% difference in airflow may or may not be significant. It depends on how much that 5-10% increase of airflow translates to heat transfer from CPU to that airflow.

Did you notice how well Dark Side GT 1850 does? These are Nidec-Servo fans first marketed by Scythe as Gentle Typhoon in about 2008 and removed from their branding line in about 2014 and picked up by Dark Side. Nidec-Servo make several versions of this fan in 1450rpm, 1800rpm and 2150rpm in 12v and 24v. Not easy to find now but still perform in same league as best new fans.
x

 

[ciarlatano]

Did you notice how well GT 1850 does? These are Nidec-Servo fans first marketed by Scythe as Gentle Typhoon in about 2008 and removed from their branding in about 2014 that still perform in same league as best new fans.
x

Little bit of a grain of salt there..... Looking at the charts are doing a little noise normalizing (not even taking ball bearing grain into account), we see this:

GT - 37.9 dB, 1250 rpm, 29 cfm
T30 - 37.8 dB, 1500 rpm, 37.5 cfm

The T30 has over 20% more airflow at the same noise level. That's not a minor difference.

 

[doyll]

Little bit of a grain of salt there..... Looking at the charts are doing a little noise normalizing (not even taking ball bearing grain into account), we see this:

GT - 37.9 dB, 1250 rpm, 29 cfm
T30 - 37.8 dB, 1500 rpm, 37.5 cfm

The T30 has over 20% more airflow at the same noise level. That's not a minor difference.

When you put it that way it doesn't look so good .. but still way better than most RGB models with highest sales .. granted those buyers think lights move air.

 

[ciarlatano]

When you put it that way it doesn't look so good .. but still way better than most RGB models with highest sales .. granted those buyers think lights move air.

Oh, you didn't say you making the comparison to those lights fans. That's a no contest. The RGB eLoop seems to be the only one worth anything, and somehow none of the argeebee bunch uses them.

 

[doyll]

Oh, you didn't say you making the comparison to those lights fans. That's a no contest. The RGB eLoop seems to be the only one worth anything, and somehow none of the argeebee bunch uses them.

Really can't compare the bulk of RGB fans with good fans. Probably shouldn't have said anything.

Was only trying to point out there are many older fans that still perform very well in most applications.

I also point out that fans like T30 and NF-A12x25 move many times more air at significantly lower speeds .. obvious result of not just higher airflow spec but more the result of their much higher ablity to overcome airflow resistance at low rpm.

 

[Always Counterclockwise]

I also point out that fans like T30 and NF-A12x25 move many times more air at significantly lower speeds .. obvious result of not just higher airflow spec but more the result of their much higher ablity to overcome airflow resistance at low rpm.

Hmm, how does this work?

Here are a few data points I have collected in my notes. It would probably be a bit more interesting to compare at, say, 900 RPM but that's a rather less popular speed.

120 mm fan	static pressure at 1200 RPM, mm H₂O	airflow at 1200 RPM , m³/h
Noctua NF-A12x25	0.82	55.7
Fractal Silent LL	0.87	71.0
Fractal Dynamic X2 GP-12	0.88	88.8
Scythe Wonder Snail 120	0.89	64.1
Scythe Kaze Flex 120	1.05	86.9
Noctua NF-S12A	1.19	107.5
Fractal Aspect 12	1.20	54.4
Phanteks PH-F120T30	1.27	66.4
Fractal Prisma AL and SL-12	1.27	86.0
Noctua NF-S12B redux	1.31	100.6

 

[doyll]

Well, first off your data is either one or the other. Fan is either making it's pressure spec or it's airflow spec. There is no restrictions in airflow when cfm / m³/h data is recorded .. and there is no airflow when mm H2O data is take.

Where did you find your data? I'm really interested in seeing how it was all done.

Factory specs are at maximum speed .. ie fans are running at full speed.
Static pressure rating is maximum pressure fan at full speed generates in a sealed container.

So we don't have any common ground to even compare factory specs of fan performance .. which is the reason there are so many differing views of which fans are best.

Hopefully this helps people understand how specs don't really show us how our fans will perform. We rarely run them at full speed, always have resistance of grill, filter, cables, etc. lowering airflow, and obviously we never use our fans pushing air into sealed containers.

This is all compounded by how little pressure differential fans make.
Waving a hand fast through the air produces as much or more airflow / pressure differential than our fans do.. but only while our hand is moving.

To give you an idea of how little pressure our fan produce in mm H2O static pressure.

Air pressure at sea level is 101325 Pa .. which converts to 10332.3 mm H2O​

air pressure at sea level is 11.013 mm H2O more than it is 30 feet above sea levek​

air pressure 10 feet above sea level is 3.671 mm H2O less than at sea level​

air pressure 5 feet above sea level is 1.836 mm H2O less than at sea level​

I can't speak for other people, but I can't tell any difference in air pressure standing at sea level or standing 10 feet above sea level .. or even 30 feet above sea level.​

​

Many of use prefer fan reviews like VSG does using radiator as resistance for CFM at different speeds because it gives us at least something similar to our real world use with some resistance to actual airflow.​

​

Edit: sorry for rambling on .. I've had a little to drink so not at 100%​

 

[ciarlatano]

Hmm, how does this work?

Here are a few data points I have collected in my notes. It would probably be a bit more interesting to compare at, say, 900 RPM but that's a rather less popular speed.

120 mm fan	static pressure at 1200 RPM, mm H₂O	airflow at 1200 RPM , m³/h
Noctua NF-A12x25	0.82	55.7
Fractal Silent LL	0.87	71.0
Fractal Dynamic X2 GP-12	0.88	88.8
Scythe Wonder Snail 120	0.89	64.1
Scythe Kaze Flex 120	1.05	86.9
Noctua NF-S12A	1.19	107.5
Fractal Aspect 12	1.20	54.4
Phanteks PH-F120T30	1.27	66.4
Fractal Prisma AL and SL-12	1.27	86.0
Noctua NF-S12B redux	1.31	100.6

Your data points don't account for a lot of things. You need something similar to this:

 

[Always Counterclockwise]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by the general absence of P-Q curve use, both here and on other forums. Since @doyll and @ciarlatano both indicated need for it, here's the (literal) triangulation of fan operating points based on my previous post and Noctua and Phanteks' published resistance curves. It's an admittedly crude approximation and—as Arctic, Delta, MSI, Nidec Servo, Noctua, Phanteks, Thermaltake, and probably others I don't know about—have all published convex P-Q curves is likely to systematically underestimate airflow. However, given the usual ±10% RPM tolerance gives ±10% on 0 mm H₂O airflow and ±20% on 0 m³/h pressure, I'm not sure it's worth trying to be too precise about this. But if someone wants to read out the various manufacturers' P-Q curves pixel by pixel from their images and enter them into a spreadsheet I'll pick that up (Arctic is, so far as I know, the only one with downloadable P-Q curve data).

Given curve shape and between manufacturer uncertainties some may feel this approach isn't worth using. In which case it's easily ignored. Personally I've found it to be of some help in placing individual fans within the overall context of what's currently available, though. It's perhaps worth noting many of the detailed P-Q curves published ripple similarly about these lines, so fans' relative positions may be fairly consistent.

For what it's worth, I've been interpreting Noctua's case line as exhaust through a high open area mesh. My limited experience with cases seems consistent Phanteks mesh plus filter curve being about right for typical 40–50% open area 1.5–2.0 mm perforated plates and foam on intakes. Since Phanteks' ρ (airflow resistance coefficient) is half of Noctua's, I also suspect Noctua and Phanteks are using the same nominal air cooler resistance and it's just that Phanteks is dividing by two for coolers using two fans.

Factory specs are at maximum speed ..

Pretty much, yeah, though I'm nearly certain I've caught at least one manufacturer making their numbers look good by listing dB(A) at minimum speed. It helps 1200 RPM is a fairly common maximum speed and that impellers with good performance are often available at several different maximum speeds. I haven't done it in this thread but, if a bit of extra uncertainty is acceptable, one can also use the fan affinity laws to estimate between RPMs (the "laws" have been decently accurate for the impellers with three or more speeds available that I've checked).

Since we're sort of on the topic, any chance your Thermalright contact might be able to share a P-Q curve or two? Given how their competition is positioning and marketing, along with the website catchup Thermalright's been doing, I'd sort of expect they'd be planning to get such info out.

 

[Dogzilla07]

From VSG's review on techpowerup: