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Discussion Starter #1
Ok all, I have been waiting a while: doing my research, planning, waiting for prices to come down (they haven't really), and waiting until i had the money and wife's permission. I am building my dream PC. I have built many PCs in the past but this will be my first time watercooling and heavily overclocking (I've OC'd a tiny bit). Anyway, Here is the pcpartpicker link to my build with all of my intended parts:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/iRon_Man22/saved/#view=JDxJ7P

Basically, I am looking for all of the opinions, critiques, suggestions on my build. I am including a picture (hand drawn so be kind) of my tube routing design. Ignore the colors, I did those just to help distinguish parts from one another. My questions that I am looking for answers:

1) Do you see any problems with my design?
2) Do you think I will have room to add another 240 rad in push/pull config. behind the dual tube reservoirs? I calculated the with of the reservoirs, rad, and fans compared to the width of the case and I should have enough room. Tell me if I'm wrong.
3) Do you see any improvements that I should make?
4) I want to plan for easy filling and draining of my system, that is why I am including a bay res. Is this the best way to plan for a draining/filling system? How can I plan this better?

Please also keep in mind a few notes about my drawing/design:

1) I am planing to mod my Primo case by cutting out the rectangular section where my two tube reservoirs are going so they show. Here is an example of what I mean.
2) I plan on having two D5 pumps on this system, one in the bay res and one on the pump mount the case provides in the back.
3) My flow pattern: Bay Res -> CPU -> 480 Rad -> GPU1 -> GPU2 -> 240 Rad -> Tube Res 1 -> D5 Pump -> 240 Rad 2 -> Tube Res 2 -> Bay Res ---Is this well planned? Any changes?
4) My color theme is going to be Black and Blue.

Let me know if you have any questions, thank you for taking the time to read this through!

 

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I looked over you build sheet and noticed you have 2 separate memory kits. It's not the best idea to combine two different kits as per Asus. You can read more HERE.

Besides that, it looks like you have a game plan set and gl with your build! I'm not that experienced with W/C yet so I'll leave the veterans to chime in regarding your proposed loop.
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It's a peculiar setup....that's for sure.....

Having built in the Primo several times, I will say that 280mm tend to look cleaner in the bottom than 240. And....seriously, you are going to spend that kind of cash and use Corsair fans? And spend as much on them as GTs, eLoops or Vardars?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
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Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

It's a peculiar setup....that's for sure.....

Having built in the Primo several times, I will say that 280mm tend to look cleaner in the bottom than 240. And....seriously, you are going to spend that kind of cash and use Corsair fans? And spend as much on them as GTs, eLoops or Vardars?
Thanks for your reply! I will definitely swap out that bottom 240 Rad for a 280, thank you for that advice! As for the corsair fans, I am open for suggestions! The corsairs look great and preform very good at that price (2 fans for $22 bucks is super cheap): 3.10 mm/H2O and 62.7 CFM (they are kinda loud at 35 dbA though). WHick fan would you say performs the best for a rad with the best balance to dbA? I would prefer not to have a loud system.
 

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You need to look at more independent testing rather than mfg specs that are rated in an open setting. Corsair fans are simply not very good in actual usage. Check thermalbench.com for some good info. Gentle Typhoon, EK Vardar, NB eLoops, CM Silencio, Phanteks F120MP are all better performers in 120mm. 140mm look at the Vardar and eLoops.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

You need to look at more independent testing rather than mfg specs that are rated in an open setting. Corsair fans are simply not very good in actual usage. Check thermalbench.com for some good info. Gentle Typhoon, EK Vardar, NB eLoops, CM Silencio, Phanteks F120MP are all better performers in 120mm. 140mm look at the Vardar and eLoops.
Thank you for helping me not make a mistake in my fan choice! Haha, I re-researched 120mm fans and looked at thermalbench's reviews, those Vardars are fantastic. I've already updated my pcpartpicker list to include the F4-120ER and FF4-140 fans. Thanks again for the help!

New question, I have been told that I should consider having two separate loops (one for CPU one for GPUs). Is there a benefit to this? Why have a couple of people suggested this? I have asked them but they haven't (yet) explained any benefit to having two separate loops.

One last thing too, I am going to have 16 Rad fans and 3 140mm case fans. The fan hub on the back supports up to 11, 3 pin fans (my Vadars are 4 pin, that shouldn't matter, right?) but how do you think I should control my other fans? My thought is to just buy another Phanteks fan hub from Newegg for $20. Better ideas?
 

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My input.

PP on your rads will not benefit your build temp wise, it will add complexity and noise.

IF you design your air flow to maximize heat up and out solid stable temps will not be a issue with the radiator space you wish to use.

You will want good fans and pump flow to ensure solid stable temps. For this much cooling space and redundancy I would recommend duel pumps. I did not look at your build list so if you planned for that crongrats!!!

KISS if you can it really is that easy.
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Originally Posted by ssiperko View Post

My input.

PP on your rads will not benefit your build temp wise, it will add complexity and noise.

IF you design your air flow to maximize heat up and out solid stable temps will not be a issue with the radiator space you wish to use.

You will want good fans and pump flow to ensure solid stable temps. For this much cooling space and redundancy I would recommend duel pumps. I did not look at your build list so if you planned for that crongrats!!!

KISS if you can it really is that easy.
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Thanks for the reply! And yes, I did plan on dual pumps
smile.gif
But I am confused on why you think my system wouldn't benefit from PP. From all of the research I've done and the build logs I've read everyone says (while it doesn't yield a huge difference) PP always adds at least a few degrees in benefits.
 

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Ssiperk is right about running push or pull vs p/p. The rads you're using are lower fpi rads which means they work very well in push configurations. While you'll certainly gain some cooling performance from p/p on them is it enough to justify the additional cost, noise, and complexity added to the loop? That question is really up to you. You have enough rad space that you're at the point of diminishing returns already. P/P will add a lot of noise and the type of noise it adds is not a pleasant whoosh noise of air moving through the rads. I've run my setup in both push and p/p with corsair fans and vardars so i'm speaking from experience.

Outside of that your loop looks pretty good to me. I don't have any experience with that case but you seem to have maximized your rad space and put redundancy in with the two pumps. From the pic your tubing runs look nice and clean as well. You'll have a very nice setup when that is finished.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iRonMan22 View Post

Thanks for the reply! And yes, I did plan on dual pumps
smile.gif
But I am confused on why you think my system wouldn't benefit from PP. From all of the research I've done and the build logs I've read everyone says (while it doesn't yield a huge difference) PP always adds at least a few degrees in benefits.
You could also gain or loose a couple degrees just by fan choice and air flow design.
wink.gif


My reasoning is purely based on keeping it simple. IF you have 1200mm of radiator space will a possible drop of a couple degrees be a benefit worth having the extra noise and wiring?
My 5960x/SLI rig has 960mm of space and I removed the PP setup with no adverse affect on temps. When I next pull it for cleaning I will install better fans.
I will say fan noise can be minimized with a fan controller and there are many options to have speeds increased/decreased based on fluid temps but again with that much space you'll not likely have any issues unless you plan to run 5.0GHz on the CPU and 1600/8800 on the GPU's while stress testing in a 90F room, even then PP won't help enough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

Ssiperk is right about running push or pull vs p/p. The rads you're using are lower fpi rads which means they work very well in push configurations. While you'll certainly gain some cooling performance from p/p on them is it enough to justify the additional cost, noise, and complexity added to the loop? That question is really up to you. You have enough rad space that you're at the point of diminishing returns already. P/P will add a lot of noise and the type of noise it adds is not a pleasant whoosh noise of air moving through the rads. I've run my setup in both push and p/p with corsair fans and vardars so i'm speaking from experience.

Outside of that your loop looks pretty good to me. I don't have any experience with that case but you seem to have maximized your rad space and put redundancy in with the two pumps. From the pic your tubing runs look nice and clean as well. You'll have a very nice setup when that is finished.
Plus this!
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Discussion Starter #12
Well put and explained! Thanks, guys, for all of the suggestions. I will most definitely consider only a Push configuration. I would love a quieter system and to save some money one not doing P/P.

Anything else? Anyone else have thoughts/opinions?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

Ssiperk is right about running push or pull vs p/p. The rads you're using are lower fpi rads which means they work very well in push configurations. While you'll certainly gain some cooling performance from p/p on them is it enough to justify the additional cost, noise, and complexity added to the loop? That question is really up to you. You have enough rad space that you're at the point of diminishing returns already. P/P will add a lot of noise and the type of noise it adds is not a pleasant whoosh noise of air moving through the rads. I've run my setup in both push and p/p with corsair fans and vardars so i'm speaking from experience.

Outside of that your loop looks pretty good to me. I don't have any experience with that case but you seem to have maximized your rad space and put redundancy in with the two pumps. From the pic your tubing runs look nice and clean as well. You'll have a very nice setup when that is finished.
This is golden info. Most people seem to overlook diminishing returns with rad space when planning a loop. Imo thats one of secrets to water cooling, have overkill rad space, then you can use whatever fan you want in whatever config you want at whatever speed you want. I still roll my eyes at the Corsair haters when over 80% of all water cooling builds use them and I have never seen a breaking news story of rigs exploding because of them. And actually you could even go with $10 dollar fans and be fine.

EDIT: you really don't need dual pumps, one D5 will be plenty to run that whole loop. And yes I understand redundancy, but really how many rigs have burned to a crisp because they only had one pump...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

This is golden info. Most people seem to overlook diminishing returns with rad space when planning a loop. Imo thats one of secrets to water cooling, have overkill rad space, then you can use whatever fan you want in whatever config you want at whatever speed you want. I still roll my eyes at the Corsair haters when over 80% of all water cooling builds use them and I have never seen a breaking news story of rigs exploding because of them. And actually you could even go with $10 dollar fans and be fine.
I have 2 complaints with the corsair fans and understand to an extent why they get the hate they do. However, the amount they get is undeserved for the most part. Just this week i replaced 23 corsair sp120 HPE pwm fans with 23 f4 vardars.

Complaints with the corsairs
1. The corsairs tick at idle speeds. About 1 in 3 fans do it right out of the box. The tick ranges from barely audible to loud enough to send back. I sent back quite a few fans to amazon because of this while i was expanding my loop over the last 7 months. Over time the ticking gets louder, its a fact of life with these fans. You have to set them at about 900rpm+ to make it go away.

2. The corsairs are very loud in p/p and the noise that they make is not pleasant at all above 1100 rpm on 60mm thick rad. The best way i can explain it is that its a very loud mechanical whine/drone that increases with rpm.

In push the corsair fans sound awesome up to about 1800rpm. At 1800rpm you'll start to notice some motor noise in the form of a whining/droning sound. Below that they have a very pleasant whoosh sound.

Take this next section with a grain of salt. These are my thoughts on the switch to whats considered one of the better rad fans.

My goals are different from many people, i push my overclocks to the absolute edge and i deal with challenges most will not face because of where i live(on the side of a mountain at 10,500ft, the air is very thin here).

I believe corsairs perform about as advertised by the manufacturer. In comparison to the corsair fans I saw around a .5-1c drop in water delta with the vardars with max speeds(although the vardars are running 150rpm lower). At lower speeds such as 1100, 1300 rpm, and 1600rpm, which are the fan profiles i usually run, the vardars dropped my delta about 1-1.5C. The water delta drop can likely be attributed mostly to the higher cfm of the vardars.

I strongly believed cfm was more of an issue not static pressure in the thin air here. When i initially went p/p with the corsairs it made a rather significant difference in my water deltas by nearly halving them. From 10C to around ~6C running the same stress test for 1 hour at maximum speeds.

The performance gained from the switch to the vardars was probably not enough to justify $460 worth of fans by any means, however i run p/p on 3 out of 4 of my rads. The vardars sound signature is so much more pleasant across the entire rpm range. Aside from noise, aesthetics was my secondary motivation for the change.

TLDR
corsair makes good fans just don't put them in p/p.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

EDIT: you really don't need dual pumps, one D5 will be plenty to run that whole loop. And yes I understand redundancy, but really how many rigs have burned to a crisp because they only had one pump...
You're right, the odds of that happening are extremely low. However if you fold or run your rig in some sort of fashion where its being pushed hard all day while you're away from the computer its worth having. A ~$150 insurance policy in a water loop with high end components is worth every penny imo.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

This is golden info. Most people seem to overlook diminishing returns with rad space when planning a loop. Imo thats one of secrets to water cooling, have overkill rad space, then you can use whatever fan you want in whatever config you want at whatever speed you want. I still roll my eyes at the Corsair haters when over 80% of all water cooling builds use them and I have never seen a breaking news story of rigs exploding because of them. And actually you could even go with $10 dollar fans and be fine.
I have 2 complaints with the corsair fans and understand to an extent why they get the hate they do. However, the amount they get is undeserved for the most part. Just this week i replaced 23 corsair sp120 HPE pwm fans with 23 f4 vardars.

Complaints with the corsairs
1. The corsairs tick at idle speeds. About 1 in 3 fans do it right out of the box. The tick ranges from barely audible to loud enough to send back. I sent back quite a few fans to amazon because of this while i was expanding my loop over the last 7 months. Over time the ticking gets louder, its a fact of life with these fans. You have to set them at about 900rpm+ to make it go away.

2. The corsairs are very loud in p/p and the noise that they make is not pleasant at all above 1100 rpm on 60mm thick rad. The best way i can explain it is that its a very loud mechanical whine/drone that increases with rpm.

In push the corsair fans sound awesome up to about 1800rpm. At 1800rpm you'll start to notice some motor noise in the form of a whining/droning sound. Below that they have a very pleasant whoosh sound.

Take this next section with a grain of salt. These are my thoughts on the switch to whats considered one of the better rad fans.

My goals are different from many people, i push my overclocks to the absolute edge and i deal with challenges most will not face because of where i live(on the side of a mountain at 10,500ft, the air is very thin here).

I believe corsairs perform about as advertised by the manufacturer. In comparison to the corsair fans I saw around a .5-1c drop in water delta with the vardars with max speeds(although the vardars are running 150rpm lower). At lower speeds such as 1100, 1300 rpm, and 1600rpm, which are the fan profiles i usually run, the vardars dropped my delta about 1-1.5C. The water delta drop can likely be attributed mostly to the higher cfm of the vardars.

I strongly believed cfm was more of an issue not static pressure in the thin air here. When i initially went p/p with the corsairs it made a rather significant difference in my water deltas by nearly halving them. From 10C to around ~6C running the same stress test for 1 hour at maximum speeds.

The performance gained from the switch to the vardars was probably not enough to justify $460 worth of fans by any means, however i run p/p on 3 out of 4 of my rads. The vardars sound signature is so much more pleasant across the entire rpm range. Aside from noise, aesthetics was my secondary motivation for the change.

TLDR
corsair makes good fans just don't put them in p/p.
Well said, most honest and real info about Corsair fans without all the hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge0fsanity View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

EDIT: you really don't need dual pumps, one D5 will be plenty to run that whole loop. And yes I understand redundancy, but really how many rigs have burned to a crisp because they only had one pump...
You're right, the odds of that happening are extremely low. However if you fold or run your rig in some sort of fashion where its being pushed hard all day while you're away from the computer its worth having. A ~$150 insurance policy in a water loop with high end components is worth every penny imo.
Good point, but not sure if the OP is folding or needing 24/7 security blanket.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

Good point, but not sure if the OP is folding or needing 24/7 security blanket.
I don't need a security blanket myself but I have one ..... I like blankets.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

This is golden info. Most people seem to overlook diminishing returns with rad space when planning a loop. Imo thats one of secrets to water cooling, have overkill rad space, then you can use whatever fan you want in whatever config you want at whatever speed you want. I still roll my eyes at the Corsair haters when over 80% of all water cooling builds use them and I have never seen a breaking news story of rigs exploding because of them. And actually you could even go with $10 dollar fans and be fine.

EDIT: you really don't need dual pumps, one D5 will be plenty to run that whole loop. And yes I understand redundancy, but really how many rigs have burned to a crisp because they only had one pump...
Rolling my eyes at the Corsair fanboys thinking that simply pointing out the fact that there are far better fans for the application at the same price point is "hate"...... Why are you guys so oversensitive? "80% of all water cooling builds" (highly exaggerated) use them for the color rings and/or simply due to lack of research. Stating that GTs, eLoops, Vardars, etc offer better performance, lower noise, nicer tonal quality and longer lifespan isn't "hate", it is solid advice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

This is golden info. Most people seem to overlook diminishing returns with rad space when planning a loop. Imo thats one of secrets to water cooling, have overkill rad space, then you can use whatever fan you want in whatever config you want at whatever speed you want. I still roll my eyes at the Corsair haters when over 80% of all water cooling builds use them and I have never seen a breaking news story of rigs exploding because of them. And actually you could even go with $10 dollar fans and be fine.

EDIT: you really don't need dual pumps, one D5 will be plenty to run that whole loop. And yes I understand redundancy, but really how many rigs have burned to a crisp because they only had one pump...
Rolling my eyes at the Corsair fanboys thinking that simply pointing out the fact that there are far better fans for the application at the same price point is "hate"...... Why are you guys so oversensitive? "80% of all water cooling builds" (highly exaggerated) use them for the color rings and/or simply due to lack of research. Stating that GTs, eLoops, Vardars, etc offer better performance, lower noise, nicer tonal quality and longer lifespan isn't "hate", it is solid advice.
#1. I have all kinds of fans in all my rigs, my sig rig is the first I ever used Corsair fans and my next build will have Bitfenix, so certainly not a Corsair fanboy here.

#2. Your completely ignoring the fact of diminishing returns with rads where the actual fan used is almost irrelevant, so choosing ascetics of a fan at that point is fine.

#3. Since when are GT's, eLoops, and Vardars at the same price point as Corsairs?

Its not helpful to suggest the OP wastes money on things that will hardly matter, (such as push-pull, dual pumps, etc.), but rather help guide them for the best performing loop per dollar. Now if money is no option, then sure there are all kinds of high priced components we can suggest, but the OP sounded like there was a certain budget to work with.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

#1. I have all kinds of fans in all my rigs, my sig rig is the first I ever used Corsair fans and my next build will have Bitfenix, so certainly not a Corsair fanboy here.

#2. Your completely ignoring the fact of diminishing returns with rads where the actual fan used is almost irrelevant, so choosing ascetics of a fan at that point is fine.

#3. Since when are GT's, eLoops, and Vardars at the same price point as Corsairs?

Its not helpful to suggest the OP wastes money on things that will hardly matter, (such as push-pull, dual pumps, etc.), but rather help guide them for the best performing loop per dollar. Now if money is no option, then sure there are all kinds of high priced components we can suggest, but the OP sounded like there was a certain budget to work with.
#1. I could care less what kind of fans you use. Saying that the mention that there are better fans is "hate" is absurd.

#2. I don't ignore that at all. I also don't ignore what a fan sounds like. Especially after having done a number of Primo builds with 360 and 480mm up top and knowing how audible they are. Having a really annoying sounding fan rather than a smooth one doesn't seem like a great idea. Also, your suggestion that choosing a fan simply for aesthetics ("ascetics" is the practice of severe self-discipline....kind of an odd thing to base a fan choice on....but, hey, whatever floats your boat) directly contradicts your statement "help guide them for the best performing loop per dollar". Which is it? Get the best performance per dollar, or do it simply for looks because performance and noise don't matter.

#3. Since the price on GTs, eLoops and Vardars dropped, and Corsairs remained consistent. Essentially a $2-3 difference per fan for six fans. When you are spending hundreds on a loop, saving $18 on six fans doesn't seem like a big savings when you are getting something with lower performance and a nasty sound profile that you will be listening to every time your computer is booted.

So, essentially, you have fans with lower performance (well documented), more noise (well documented), what the vast majority of users find to be a less pleasant sound, and a very minimal cost difference. So, aside from fanboydom and color rings....why would one use them? And when you are spending that much on a loop, why would anyone possibly settle that much over $18? That sounds like the opposite of "help guide them for the best performing loop per dollar".
 
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