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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
MAJOR POST REVISION/REDO

Ok, so here is what is going on with the panel nowadays.

My exact setup is as follows:

i7 2600k
asrock extreme4 z77
r9 290
Catalyst 14.2 beta
16gb of ram
seiki se39uy04

Once I downloaded and installed drivers I used amd pixel patcher to patch the HDMI spec.

I then downloaded Toastyx's custom resolution utility.

BEFORE Adding anything with toasty's CRU I suggest adding the resolution. I don't know the steps on how to do it on NVIDIA. In order to add any resolution into CCC that you want follow these steps:

1. Run regedit with administrative privileges.
2. Navigate to your 2d Driver file path. The path can be found in CCC under information: software. It should be under hkeylocalmachine/system/controlset001/control/class/ (the last part of the path is specific to each driver version).
3. Click on it and double click the reg file titled "DALNonStandardModesBCD2"
4. Edit this file.

The syntax in the file may seem a little confusing. The first four numbers are for the horizontal resolution, the next four numbers are the vertical resolution. The next eight numbers are for color settings that I am not going to get into. The final two numbers are for refresh rate. Leave the refresh rate 00, as this will make windows search for all driver level added refresh rates.

For example, if I wanted to add 3200x1800 I would type:

32 00 18 00 00 00 00 00 00

Regedit will add another line automatically once all fields are populated.

5. NOW YOU CAN ADD THAT RESOLUTION TO CRU. Your TV should accept any signal that is added via the registry at any refresh rate as long as the pixel clock is under 295mhz. I believe this is a firmware limit, but I am not sure. The hardware limit should be 315mhz.

YOU MUST HAVE GPU SCALING OFF FOR THESE CUSTOM RESOLUTIONS. Scaling by the TV varies greatly. For example, 3200x1800 looks better than 1440p for me and waaaayyy better than 1080p. If I change the resolution to 3216x1809 it scales horribly and looks worse than 1080p.

WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

You can change existing resolutions to higher refresh rates as long as the pixel clock is under 295mhz.

Resolutions that are tested and passing a UFO blur test and scale well for me:

3840x2160 @ 33hz
3200x1800 @ 47hz
2560x1440 @ 72hz
1920x1080 @ 125hz

If something doesn't scale well for you:

I'm not lying to you, as ae-?a has pointed out, some seiki 39 inch panels seem to work differently than others. Also make sure you flash your firmware to the 50 inch version. This did improve scaling for me.

My advice: see what looks good on your panel. At the very least, you should be able to get a few more hz out of the panel using this trick. I'm sure other resolutions work fine, I just haven't tested them. If you have something that works well and you think looks good let me know and I'll test them and add it to this OP.

If the 50 inch firmware doesn't work for you, try this custom one made by ae-?a
 

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Since it is a TV, it will not be real 120hz, but rather adding frames to imitate 120hz. I have never in my life heard of a true 120hz TV sadly. So you will probably only get 60hz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by go4life View Post

Since it is a TV, it will not be real 120hz, but rather adding frames to imitate 120hz. I have never in my life heard of a true 120hz TV sadly. So you will probably only get 60hz.
The seike 4K TV does [email protected] or [email protected] Also there is the skyworth TV that was able to pass a frameskip test at [email protected] There is also some TVs that overclock to true 120hz when the motion interpolation is turned off.

Sources
http://www.overclock.net/t/1401149/true-120hz-from-pc-to-tv-list-of-tvs-successful-overclocking-of-hdtv-and-plasmas
http://www.overclock.net/t/1403821/pcper-seiki-announces-39-4k-ultra-hdtv-for-700

So they do exist but not really natively.
thumb.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by go4life View Post

Since it is a TV, it will not be real 120hz, but rather adding frames to imitate 120hz. I have never in my life heard of a true 120hz TV sadly. So you will probably only get 60hz.
Several models manage to support true 120Hz from a computer, but this is usually undocumented.

See this:
HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO: True 120Hz from PC to TV
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have thus been unsuccessful in getting 120hz on my tv. I think it is a firmware issue that seiki plans on updating on an indefinate "soon". The 50 inch model does get true 120hz though.

I am just glad to get 1440p at 60hz out of the thing. The TV properly recognizes it once the EDID is forced to it via Toasty's CRU. There just seems to not be any way to get the TV to cooperate in any kind of 120hz at over 720p.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by salamachaa View Post

Hey guys. I have been playing with my Seiki se39uy04. I got it going at 2560x1440 at 60 hz. Proof:
I am going to shoot for other things as well. Anyone know a good test for 120hz?
The Scaler does not handle resolution above 1920x1080 correctly unless you got some newer panel or something.

I have gone into this in detail on hardforum which nobody seemed to believe initially that things are just getting interpolated down to 1080p then upscaled to 4k:

50 inch:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040268394&postcount=590

39 inch:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040274952&postcount=603

Honestly I am surprised that nobody found this horrible scaling so obviously horrible of the several people who said they ran at 1440p and it was 'working' as I do not consider that to be 'working.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by salamachaa View Post

I have thus been unsuccessful in getting 120hz on my tv. I think it is a firmware issue that seiki plans on updating on an indefinate "soon". The 50 inch model does get true 120hz though.

I am just glad to get 1440p at 60hz out of the thing. The TV properly recognizes it once the EDID is forced to it via Toasty's CRU. There just seems to not be any way to get the TV to cooperate in any kind of 120hz at over 720p.
My last email from Seiki on the 13th of November was:

I have some movement on our end. Our engineering team says they can address the issue easily, but they would like to get their hands on the test signal that you used to generate the artifact issue. Is this something you can send to us?

(The refresh rate multi-tool which I gave them a link to). Not totally sure why they called it an 'artifact' issue as its a frame drop issue, LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't know honestly. The panel itself put itself in a 2560x1440p mode that was programmed into it but unreachable by other means. The picture is noticeably sharper than running in 1080p mode. Have you tried flashing your firmware lately? I just flashed it Friday. There are two different firmwares on their site for the same model. The only difference seems to be options it enables in the menu.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by salamachaa View Post

I don't know honestly. The panel itself put itself in a 2560x1440p mode that was programmed into it but unreachable by other means. The picture is noticeably sharper than running in 1080p mode. Have you tried flashing your firmware lately? I just flashed it Friday. There are two different firmwares on their site for the same model. The only difference seems to be options it enables in the menu.
Can you take a picture with a camera or something very close to text or something? that should make it pretty obvious...

I am using the one from 08/28 which is the newest one they published. I actually got that one in my correspondents with seiki before they had it on their site. Since the 39 and 50 inch both have this issue I would be amazed if you did not unless its doing video card scaling but then it would only be 30 Hz (not 60).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is a shot from the only camera I have (an htc one). I took the picture directly next to the tv as close as I could get. One is at 1080p and one is 1440p.

IMAG0113.jpg 847k .jpg file


IMAG0112.jpg 821k .jpg file


A little side note:

I tried GPU scaling on and off and it did NOT change the refresh rate. My panel identified it as 2560x1440 60hz both times and blur busters ufo test came up as valid 60hz both times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ae-?a View Post

Can you take a picture with a camera or something very close to text or something? that should make it pretty obvious...

I am using the one from 08/28 which is the newest one they published. I actually got that one in my correspondents with seiki before they had it on their site. Since the 39 and 50 inch both have this issue I would be amazed if you did not unless its doing video card scaling but then it would only be 30 Hz (not 60).
Sorry it took me a while to response by the way. I wanted to test 720p 1080p and 1440p to make sure it was not artifacting in any of them. I also wanted to make sure I was getting the correct refresh rate.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by salamachaa View Post

Sorry it took me a while to response by the way. I wanted to test 720p 1080p and 1440p to make sure it was not artifacting in any of them. I also wanted to make sure I was getting the correct refresh rate.
No problem but they are quite blurry unfortunately so its a bit hard to tell although it seems quite a bit better than what I had.

Can you go in the service menu and tell me what the panel info is? Mine says:

Baseline Ver: 179
Order Form: SY13243
Board Ver: ST297K_R10.3
Panjel Info: CMI_V390DK1_LS1
Customer: Seiki
Produce Date Aug 28 2013
Produce Time 10:18:30

Under baseline version:

Boot Ver: 0001.0716.1017
Linux Ver: 000
Video Ver: 564869
Audio Ver: 494203
AP Ver: 513407

Also can you paste me the exact timings you used for 2560x1440 in the custom resolution program? Even though its blurry yours didn't seem as bad as mine so curious whats going on. Just let me know if any of the values for the above are differen't (you don't need to type any of yours out).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ae-?a View Post

No problem but they are quite blurry unfortunately so its a bit hard to tell although it seems quite a bit better than what I had.

Can you go in the service menu and tell me what the panel info is? Mine says:

Baseline Ver:179
Order Form: SY13243
Board Ver: ST297K_R10.3
Panjel Info: CMI_V390DK1_LS1
Customer: Seiki
Produce Date Aug 28 2013
Produce Time 10:18:30

Under baseline version:

Boot Ver:0001.0716.1017
Linux Ver:000
Video Ver:564869
Audio Ver:494203
AP Ver:513407

Also can you paste me the exact timings you used for 2560x1440 in the custom resolution program? Even though its blurry yours didn't seem as bad as mine so curious whats going on. Just let me know if any of the values for the above are differen't (you don't need to type any of yours out).
The blurry was from the camera. I apologize. I assure you there is no hocus pocus going on. It looks like we have a different board revision perhaps.

Baseline Ver:179
Customer Ver: Ver 1.1
Order Form: SY13242
Board Ver: ST2975K_R10.3
Panel Info: CMI_V390DK1_LS1
Customer: Seiki
Produce Date Aug 28 2013
Produce Time 10:18:30

Under baseline version:

Boot Ver:0001.0716.1017
Linux Ver:000
Video Ver:564869
Audio Ver:494203
AP Ver:513407

I currently only have 3 resolutions in CRU.
Timing Manual:
Horizontal Vertical
Active: 2560 1440
Front porch 176 8
Sync width 88 10
back porch 296 72
sync polarity + -
refresh rate 60.000

Comes to a pixel clock of 286.42

Timing manual:
Horizontal Vertical
Active: 2560 1440
FP: 80 3
Sync Width 152 6
Back porch 232 25
Sync polarity - +
Refresh rate 60.000

Comes to a pixel clock of 286.42

Timing manual:
Horizontal Vertical
Active 1920 1080
fp 48 3
sync width 32 5
bp 80 33
refresh rate 120.00

comes to a pixel clock of 279.81
* very minimal testing on this one *
Edit: As suspected it results in tearing artifacts.
 

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So I the seiki 39 inch my dad just got from amazon (he got a second one from home). The scaling is still CRAP on it. It looked somewhat better than it did for me on linux simply because windows is using bigger font sizes (96 DPI default) than my linux machine which is set to 75 DPI. So a little less noticable but definitely crap compared to video card scaling, definitely still scaling it down to 1080p then upscaling it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ae-?a View Post

So I the seiki 39 inch my dad just got from amazon (he got a second one from home). The scaling is still CRAP on it. It looked somewhat better than it did for me on linux simply because windows is using bigger font sizes (96 DPI default) than my linux machine which is set to 75 DPI. So a little less noticable but definitely crap compared to video card scaling, definitely still scaling it down to 1080p then upscaling it...
I don't know what to tell you.. There is a marked improvement for me between 1440p and 1080p. It really doesn't seem scaled on mine. Does your television recognize that you are sending it a 1440p signal?
 

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I don't mean to be refuting you say. I really would like to verify what you say is true and the scaling is good maybe with newer revisions. Its definitely 1440p as the display even says 2560x1440p. Ive seen this on three different 39 inch seiki's and one 50 inch (a fourth coming as my dad got a second one for home). So far its been pretty bad on everyone I tested. It was very obvious to my dad too as the blacks aren't any where near black. Here is a lossless 75-dpi terminal text which does not have anti-aliasing (when they are aliased it seems to come out better):

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_terminal_test.png

Can you tell me if all that text looks fine/is easily readable? Especially the bolded part like being able to see the circle in the center of the b and the a in 'dekabutsu' ? If you could take another close-up picture (it really doesn't need to be as close as you got it but like 1.5 inches away or something of a big grouping of text at smaller size (instead of a single letter) would be helpful. Even if you have to get even farther away whatever it takes to be in focus. I understand if you dont want to go through the trouble of this. I took the pictures of mine via an iphone 5 (so not a great camera) but they came out pretty decent.

Also if you look at this image:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_39/checkered_640x480_2.png

And compare it with another computer or at 3840x2160 does it still look similar or does it look like the the last one I posted in this picture:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040274952&postcount=603

I would really like to find out if the scaling is actually ok on some models of the 39 inch (as I am sure others will as well). I would love to verify your results and I hope yours really does have much better scaling than the ones I have tested so far.

Also I take it if you enable GPU scaling and thus the dipslay says 3840x2160 but the OS is outputing 2560x1440 (so video card scaling) that it looks pretty similar if its enabled/disabled? I know on mine the video card scaling looks *WAY* better.

Giving you strait PNG's i think is more of an apples to apples comparosin (so your looking at the same things I am) rather than comparing other stuff.

Even better yet look at this screenshot:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_39_scale_test.png

These are anti-aliased fonts but compare to what the picture looked like for me (especially the text on the vew bar:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_39/seiki_39_2560x1440_zoom_2-small.jpg
 

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Do you have to use the Custom Resolution utility to achieve 2560 x 1440? Can you not just set it through Catalyst Control Center or windows without any extra edid overriding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ae-?a View Post

I don't mean to be refuting you say. I really would like to verify what you say is true and the scaling is good maybe with newer revisions. Its definitely 1440p as the display even says 2560x1440p. Ive seen this on three different 39 inch seiki's and one 50 inch (a fourth coming as my dad got a second one for home). So far its been pretty bad on everyone I tested. It was very obvious to my dad too as the blacks aren't any where near black. Here is a lossless 75-dpi terminal text which does not have anti-aliasing (when they are aliased it seems to come out better):

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_terminal_test.png

Can you tell me if all that text looks fine/is easily readable? Especially the bolded part like being able to see the circle in the center of the b and the a in 'dekabutsu' ? If you could take another close-up picture (it really doesn't need to be as close as you got it but like 1.5 inches away or something of a big grouping of text at smaller size (instead of a single letter) would be helpful. Even if you have to get even farther away whatever it takes to be in focus. I understand if you dont want to go through the trouble of this. I took the pictures of mine via an iphone 5 (so not a great camera) but they came out pretty decent.

Also if you look at this image:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_39/checkered_640x480_2.png

And compare it with another computer or at 3840x2160 does it still look similar or does it look like the the last one I posted in this picture:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040274952&postcount=603

I would really like to find out if the scaling is actually ok on some models of the 39 inch (as I am sure others will as well). I would love to verify your results and I hope yours really does have much better scaling than the ones I have tested so far.

Also I take it if you enable GPU scaling and thus the dipslay says 3840x2160 but the OS is outputing 2560x1440 (so video card scaling) that it looks pretty similar if its enabled/disabled? I know on mine the video card scaling looks *WAY* better.

Giving you strait PNG's i think is more of an apples to apples comparosin (so your looking at the same things I am) rather than comparing other stuff.

Even better yet look at this screenshot:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_39_scale_test.png

These are anti-aliased fonts but compare to what the picture looked like for me (especially the text on the vew bar:

http://box.houkouonchi.jp/seiki_39/seiki_39_2560x1440_zoom_2-small.jpg
Here is the part that is confusing to me. When I have GPU scaling on I stay in 2560x1440 mode. The resfresh rate stays 60hz. I am going to add some pictures I took of mine in 1440p mode. They really look nothing like yours. Also the terminal is perfectly readable both close up and standing a good 10 feet away.

I have three random trouble shooting things that you could try.

1. I actually removed the 4k default entry from CRU. I only have the 1440p and now I added the 2160p one as a secondary entry.
2. What firmware have you been using? There are two entries for the 39 inch one. I know they are supposed to be for two different revisions of the same TV, but they really just enable certain settings in the setup. If you are having trouble with one, consider flashing the other.
3. Are you on the same video driver as me? I am on catalyst 13.9 ( a couple versions old).




Again, sorry for the ****ty pics. My phone gives some odd halo and grainy effects on high light sources. The grid is actually a little less pronounced of black lines IRL. However, as you can see, no plaid type effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koogiking View Post

Do you have to use the Custom Resolution utility to achieve 2560 x 1440? Can you not just set it through Catalyst Control Center or windows without any extra edid overriding.
I had to use EDID overriding. CCC did not recognize 1440p before this, even though the panel has a 1440p mode. You also have to unlock the pixel clock.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by salamachaa View Post

Here is the part that is confusing to me. When I have GPU scaling on I stay in 2560x1440 mode. The resfresh rate stays 60hz. I am going to add some pictures I took of mine in 1440p mode. They really look nothing like yours. Also the terminal is perfectly readable both close up and standing a good 10 feet away.

I have three random trouble shooting things that you could try.

1. I actually removed the 4k default entry from CRU. I only have the 1440p and now I added the 2160p one as a secondary entry.
2. What firmware have you been using? There are two entries for the 39 inch one. I know they are supposed to be for two different revisions of the same TV, but they really just enable certain settings in the setup. If you are having trouble with one, consider flashing the other.
3. Are you on the same video driver as me? I am on catalyst 13.9 ( a couple versions old).




Again, sorry for the ****ty pics. My phone gives some odd halo and grainy effects on high light sources. The grid is actually a little less pronounced of black lines IRL. However, as you can see, no plaid type effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by salamachaa View Post

Here is the part that is confusing to me. When I have GPU scaling on I stay in 2560x1440 mode. The resfresh rate stays 60hz. I am going to add some pictures I took of mine in 1440p mode. They really look nothing like yours. Also the terminal is perfectly readable both close up and standing a good 10 feet away.

I have three random trouble shooting things that you could try.

1. I actually removed the 4k default entry from CRU. I only have the 1440p and now I added the 2160p one as a secondary entry.
2. What firmware have you been using? There are two entries for the 39 inch one. I know they are supposed to be for two different revisions of the same TV, but they really just enable certain settings in the setup. If you are having trouble with one, consider flashing the other.
3. Are you on the same video driver as me? I am on catalyst 13.9 ( a couple versions old).




Again, sorry for the ****ty pics. My phone gives some odd halo and grainy effects on high light sources. The grid is actually a little less pronounced of black lines IRL. However, as you can see, no plaid type effect.
Thanks for taking those. Those images are much better to see whats going on. I really don't see how drivers could effect this at all to be honest. Your panel seems to be handling the scaling a lot better than mine

Ok looking at your pics it still seems like the scaling is pretty poor to me (extremely washed out) but for whatever reason it is quite a bit better on yours than it is on mine. Notice how all your texts are basically turning completely grey and stuff? definitely messed up scaling IMHO. I took a picture of the same area of that image file.

Here is the native scaler (as you can see quite a bit worse than yours):

IMG_0134-small.JPG

But here is just using the zoom (beryl/opengl scale filter) which is pretty comparable to videocard scaling. IMHO that scaling looks *way* b
etter than the seiki's. I will totally admit your seiki for whatever reason is doing quite a bit better job than mine but is still not very good. I

IMG_0132-small.JPG

I am using the firmware with the backlight-fix stuff which I though tyou were as well? I guess I could try the other one when I get a chance.. Honestly I didn't take pictures when I tested the new one my dad got but I updated to the same firmware I have now and I want to say the scaling did seem a bit better than mine (I chocked it up to larged font sizes of windows); however I am now thinking his was possibly scaling like yours does which still looks much crappier than it should IMHO. Atleast it looks like yours is not losing like half of its resolution like mine seems to in the process its just somewhat poor scaling. Way more livable of an option than what mine was doing though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
IMHO the scaling is fine on my panel. It looks the same as other panels I have with similar dpi. Also there is no grey issue. I think it is just you looking at a picture of a screen that is a cell phone picture of a screen and trying to get too much info from it. Anyway good luck figuring out your panel.
 
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