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Gaming Extraordinaire
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As they title states can psu's use different parts when compared to the parts that are listed when they are reviewed.

I have a Thermaltake Toughpower XT 875w psu, looking at the reviews sites like Johnny Guru, Tweaktown and Pureoverclock they all list its main capacitor as a Nippon Chemi Con rated at 85c, But when I look in the back of my psu its clearly a Panasonic rated for 105c...

Is this normal? is it a newer revision or is something fishy...
 

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They're selling a product, not guaranteeing carbon copies.

For many components in most electronics, they make a list of parts from different brands that are all okay to be used. In manufacturing, they just grab whatever is available. You don't want to be screwed whenever costs of part X increase or your next shipment doesn't come until a couple weeks later or their factory explodes or whatever else.

Sometimes there's a minor controversy because a part of equivalent quality (or from an equivalently respectable brand) can't be sourced at a given time, so they stoop to something a bit worse. Or let's say the approved list for a certain part includes mediocre stuff because mediocre stuff works just fine there, but a review sample happened to get the good stuff there by chance because that's what they had on stock that day.

Never mind when say Corsair switched OEMs and design on TX series without telling anyone. Not in a bad way really-it was still selling something that meets the specifications and marketing for TX-just that people kind of expect a new model number when that happens. For reasons, I guess.

That said, it's possible there was a minor parts list change for your situation. A Panasonic 105C part is better than a NCC 85C part there. i.e. they went to using high-quality 105C main caps instead of 85C, which is an upgrade. Or maybe they just didn't have any of the cheaper 85C main caps on stock when making some batch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

They're selling a product, not guaranteeing carbon copies.

For many components in most electronics, they make a list of parts from different brands that are all okay to be used. In manufacturing, they just grab whatever is available. You don't want to be screwed whenever costs of part X increase or your next shipment doesn't come until a couple weeks later or their factory explodes or whatever else.

Sometimes there's a minor controversy because a part of equivalent quality (or from an equivalently respectable brand) can't be sourced at a given time, so they stoop to something a bit worse. Or let's say the approved list for a certain part includes mediocre stuff because mediocre stuff works just fine there, but a review sample happened to get the good stuff there by chance because that's what they had on stock that day.

Never mind when say Corsair switched OEMs and design on TX series without telling anyone. Not in a bad way really-it was still selling something that meets the specifications and marketing for TX-just that people kind of expect a new model number when that happens. For reasons, I guess.

That said, it's possible there was a minor parts list change for your situation. A Panasonic 105C part is better than a NCC 85C part there. i.e. they went to using high-quality 105C main caps instead of 85C, which is an upgrade. Or maybe they just didn't have any of the cheaper 85C main caps on stock when making some batch.
Ah, Thank you very much, that clears things up nicely +rep
smile.gif
 

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Be Quiet Power Zone got a big upgrade AFTER it was reviewed so despite it says 80 plus bronze on the box it can do 80 plus gold no problem what so ever

So no things like that is not unheard of
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydude025 View Post

I have a Thermaltake Toughpower XT 875w psu, looking at the reviews sites like Johnny Guru, Tweaktown and Pureoverclock they all list its main capacitor as a Nippon Chemi Con rated at 85c, But when I look in the back of my psu its clearly a Panasonic rated for 105c...

Is this normal? is it a newer revision or is something fishy...
Lots of the best quality PSUs have 85C capacitors in the high voltage section because the signals there aren't that rough on caps -- low frequency, gradual turn-on/turn-off, so even junk brands like CapXon hold up well there.

I don't think PSU manufacturers make many revisions that are upgrades, and when I've seen them change cap brands, it was from one junk brand of cap to another junk brand. But recently HardOCP found that a certain high wattage PSU that normally kept its fan turned off would shut down at higher power levels that weren't high enough to trigger the fan. OTOH motherboards were often improved through revisions, and years ago it was common for the first version of a new model to be made with only lower quality caps, then it would be revised with Japanese caps in some critical areas, like the CPU voltage regulator. And around 2002-2004, Dell Optiplex GX270 Pentium4 mobos had one particular small Nichicon cap fail at high rates, and this was after the Nichicon scandal (from 2002-2004, Nichicon had a bad production run of some models). So it was replaced with a Rubycon, but that still failed a lot, so finally a Panasonic was used, and apparently that stopped the failures.
 

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OP, they have an approved vendor list and whatever is available is used (cheaper or not).

For example, a lot of GPUs have Hynix and Elpida as approved vendors for memory or Samsung and Hynix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shilka View Post

Be Quiet Power Zone got a big upgrade AFTER it was review do despite it says 80 plus bronze on the box it can do 80 plus gold no problem what so ever

So no things like that is not unheard of
Is that true?

If it can do 90% efficiency it would be sort of worth it for the price , in Europe. A bunch of reviews state the fan is noisy, which means it is pretty pointless : 80+ bronze + a not quiet "Be Quiet".

The 650W version is about $120 USD, even if it's 90 Euro in Europe.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larymoencurly View Post

Lots of the best quality PSUs have 85C capacitors in the high voltage section because the signals there aren't that rough on caps -- low frequency, gradual turn-on/turn-off, so even junk brands like CapXon hold up well there.

I don't think PSU manufacturers make many revisions that are upgrades, and when I've seen them change cap brands, it was from one junk brand of cap to another junk brand. But recently HardOCP found that a certain high wattage PSU that normally kept its fan turned off would shut down at higher power levels that weren't high enough to trigger the fan. OTOH motherboards were often improved through revisions, and years ago it was common for the first version of a new model to be made with only lower quality caps, then it would be revised with Japanese caps in some critical areas, like the CPU voltage regulator. And around 2002-2004, Dell Optiplex GX270 Pentium4 mobos had one particular small Nichicon cap fail at high rates, and this was after the Nichicon scandal (from 2002-2004, Nichicon had a bad production run of some models). So it was replaced with a Rubycon, but that still failed a lot, so finally a Panasonic was used, and apparently that stopped the failures.
Not completely true. The primary side actually has higher frequency, generally, than the secondary, and greater ripple current, run closer to the rated voltage, etc. The main reason that the primary caps fail less and can be made lower quality at a lower risk is simply because of the larger size of the caps. Greater volume of aluminum, greater quantity of electrolyte, more thermal mass. It takes proportionately more damage to cause acute failure of a large 400V cap, than it does to fail a 16-25V cap. They're inherently more robust.
 

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This also means that putting 105c capacitors there simply doesn't help if the secondary also has 105c caps. The secondary caps will live for less time either way in theory.

Actually, due to the higher frequency and ripple current on the primary side, 105c caps have about the same life as 85c caps in this case because the 85c line from the same company usually has better tolerance on both frequency and RC than the 105c line (but since the temperature tolerance is worse, both 85c and 105c caps end up with close to even lifetime).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
After a little more snooping around my power supply I have noticed the secondary caps are SamXon GF's, Everywhere I look I see people saying how bad the GF and GL series of samXon caps are.... so now I need some advise, Either I keep this psu for a while longer or I get a new one? Are these caps that bad that I should replace my psu asap or will they suffice for as long as the warranty lasts "5 years" ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

OP, they have an approved vendor list and whatever is available is used (cheaper or not).

For example, a lot of GPUs have Hynix and Elpida as approved vendors for memory or Samsung and Hynix.
Is that true?

If it can do 90% efficiency it would be sort of worth it for the price , in Europe. A bunch of reviews state the fan is noisy, which means it is pretty pointless : 80+ bronze + a not quiet "Be Quiet".

The 650W version is about $120 USD, even if it's 90 Euro in Europe.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/beQuiet/PowerZone_1000W/
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydude025 View Post

After a little more snooping around my power supply I have noticed the secondary caps are SamXon GF's, Everywhere I look I see people saying how bad the GF and GL series of samXon caps are.... so now I need some advise, Either I keep this psu for a while longer or I get a new one? Are these caps that bad that I should replace my psu asap or will they suffice for as long as the warranty lasts "5 years" ?
Anyone?
 

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Now, that is a downgrade. All the reviews from 2010 had something generally regarded a little better.

But considering how much you're loading it (not all that much), the efficiency, fan, ripple, etc. it's most likely going to be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

Now, that is a downgrade. All the reviews from 2010 had something generally regarded a little better.

But considering how much you're loading it (not all that much), the efficiency, fan, ripple, etc. it's most likely going to be fine.
I just checked out my old Coolermaster extreme power plus 650 psu, it uses the same samXon GF caps on the secondary as my XT 875w, I was using that psu for about 5 years with a ati 4870 and then an amd 6870 and none where bulging all looked fine, so I guess they can't all be too bad...
tongue.gif
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larymoencurly View Post

Lots of the best quality PSUs have 85C capacitors in the high voltage section because the signals there aren't that rough on caps -- low frequency, gradual turn-on/turn-off, so even junk brands like CapXon hold up well there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post

Not completely true. The primary side actually has higher frequency, generally, than the secondary, and greater ripple current, run closer to the rated voltage, etc. The main reason that the primary caps fail less and can be made lower quality at a lower risk is simply because of the larger size of the caps. Greater volume of aluminum, greater quantity of electrolyte, more thermal mass. It takes proportionately more damage to cause acute failure of a large 400V cap, than it does to fail a 16-25V cap. They're inherently more robust.
The electrolytic caps I've seen on the high voltage side all worked at low frequency, and the only high voltage cap that worked at the power oscillator's high frequency of roughly 50 KHz - 150 KHz was a polyester foil or film cap that coupled to the power transformer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dollesterdy View Post

A bunch of reviews state the fan is noisy, which means it is pretty pointless : 80+ bronze + a not quiet "Be Quiet".
tc1yGG
Its not 80 plus bronze i just said that in my last post
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok so I have decided that I am going to get a new power supply within the next month or 2, my choices are limited to this site http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

So I have narrowed it down to the Thermaltake DPS 750w or the Corsair AX760i, the AX760 has a good rep and the Thermaltake DPS looks like a solid unit also so what are you're thoughts?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydude025 View Post

Ok so I have decided that I am going to get a new power supply within the next month or 2, my choices are limited to this site http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

So I have narrowed it down to the Thermaltake DPS 750w or the Corsair AX760i, the AX760 has a good rep and the Thermaltake DPS looks like a solid unit also so what are you're thoughts?
you can save some $ by going with the Antec HCG 750 unless someone wiser has any objections.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

you can save some $ by going with the Antec HCG 750 unless someone wiser has any objections.
Yes I saw that as well, I have never gone with Antec before and it looks like a decent psu so I am not sure, Money will not be an issue so I am looking for the best bang for buck psu that will last me a long time, so far the AX760i is at the top of my list because of its reputation but I am not well versed in psu's as some people here so I am open to all suggestions and arguments
tongue.gif
 

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That (High Current Gamter Modular 750W, which is a different design than the original HCG 750W) and most of the stuff in that price range is largely a sidegrade. You can do it, but I'd just use what you have until the warranty's out.

More so if you're not loading it 24/7 with at least 2-3 graphics cards. If you're hardly tickling it as it is, leave it be.
 
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