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Background:
I built a 1950x + Asus Zenith + 4xGPU system for my work.

Introduction
After finally having some time to sit down and start tinkering with OCing my rig, I ran into all the problems pretty people typically post here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Every Asus Zenith Buyer
  1. Bluetooth doesn't work
  2. can't boot from my $400 M.2 drive
  3. Windows 7 won't start
  4. Linux destroyed my...x,y,z
  5. I can't boot with n sticks of RAM
  6. My ram is running at 2133 and I paid so much for it!!!!
  7. The Cpu won't go higher than 3.4 GHZ, help
  8. The lights are not shining properly
  9. The fans are not spinning properly
  10. The little cute OLED screen is telling me my CPU has error 00 every time I start
The Part you care about: What should you do to avoid having a single problem with this amazing platform
Your mileage or kilometers per amount of fuel will vary, but for me and my ****ty dual rank, samsung E die ram this is the difference...

Out of the Box


Following the general steps outlined below
  1. If using windows, install Windows 10. All problems gone. You can buy it for $30 on amazon. Install fresh copy of OS and reinstall all programs. This will give you the fastest performing feel and will bring a smile to your face.
  2. Flash your BIOS to the latest (it is never buggy, despite what people say), presently 804.
  3. Once you install windows, don't go ham installing all the pretty little ASUS programs. . You are an ENTHUSIAST after all, you don't need some fancy OCing program, you use BIOS (if you are not an enthusiast you should not have bought this board, as the fun for an enthusiast really comes from tweaking this kind of stuff).

    Ok now the RAM stuff...(in the book that came with the motherboard, it says where you should stick the RAM modules)
    1. After you installed the windows and ran windows update, and the only thing you downloaded and installed is latest GPU drivers (no other nonsense, promise?), you will download the following application -> Thaiphoon Burner http://www.softnology.biz/ (weird name for a program, you say? But despite its shady url and juvenile name, it is fine)
    2. When you run the program, it currently will have an ironic screen which reads 'QUICK start' with written instructions 99.9998% will run when they use this software(in case you need to know, siamese twins..).

      Click the 'Read' button in the toolbar. (hint for the developer, just have it read the damn SPD automatically)
    3. Now you are looking a $#!+load of numbers, and getting ready to do some matrix math...yeah.
    4. The only reason you downloaded this software is to find out what kind of memory chips you have (omg,omg let it be this amazing B-die!!!
      rolleyes.gif
      ).
      In particular:

      • Manufacturer
        Samsung

      • Organization
        1024M x64 (2 ranks)

        or from

        JEDEC DIMM Label
        8GB 2Rx8 PC4-2133P-UB0-10
        (whatever you do, and I am serious about this: DO NOT SEARCH FOR THIS ON eBay. EVER!Promise? Good.)
        The only part you care about is 2Rx8 . Yours could read 1Rx8, 2Rx16, 4Rx128(you might be a lonely server)...
        The number in front is what RANK your memory is.

        Let that sink in. OK, so *** is rank...oh boy. OK, if you understand this you are probably qualified to lead museum tours.
        In short,
        SINGLE RANK RAM stick

        DUAL RANK RAM stick
        Do you really need a picture with 2 hippos? Fine


        Legend: the blue thing is a ram stick, hippos are RANKS of ram chips on your stick.
        The CPU throws balls at hippos through the hole on the side.
        CPU can throw more balls at a plate with 2 hippos without risking hippos choking or suffocating from too many balls.

        Got it? More hippos means more balls get stored per unit time as long as you can keep balls coming in. ie. Single rank would throw one ball at a hippo,wait, have it chomp it down.
        In double rank, an a$$hole cpu could throw in 2 balls, one after another (CPU only has one arm per plate) and have them both be eaten faster than throwing just one at a time.


        Oh and for the wizards claiming that they can tell how many ranks there are on a memory module by looking at the stick, tell them that they probably cannot work as a museum guide. It does not matter if you only have ram chips on one side or both of the stick or on all 2.5 dimensional plane, hippo's a hippo.
        Ha, got you! Die don't matter. E die is later revision of B die, etc.
        Don't believe me?
        Here's a spot the difference test for you then.

        Samsung B Die
        http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/server-dram/ddr4-component/K4A8G085WB?ia=3068

        Samsung E Die
        http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/server-dram/ddr4-component/K4A4G085WE?ia=3068
        There is different capacities you can get them in, but overall very similar.
        For ryzen current record is held by a set of E-die Samsung sticks at 4+gigs.

      • A very smart or possessed person on this forum wrote a utility called Ryzen DRAM calculator. Threadripper is Ryzen (I bet a surprisingly large number of people did not know this)

        Download it from:

        http://www.overclock.net/t/1640919/ryzen-dram-calculator-overclocking-dram

        For what it's worth I did not disassemble the executable and don't know if he did some clever stuff in there, and I have no idea why he did not put it on github, but you can probably trust him.

        Do as he says:
        1. In your Thaphoon Burner (seriously, don't name software which you are trying to monetize, stupid $#%@^@, its like writing with gold and sealing your product with doodoo),click "Report" at the top.
        2. Jeez, look at all those numbers. Actually, don't. Scroll to the bottom, and click on text which could not possibly be a button "Show delays in nanoseconds".
        3. Now plug in those numbers in his probably-not bitcoin-minining-rootkit-still-should-run-in-sandboxie software called Ryzen Dram Calculator. It will tell you how to enter your bios settings for your ram.
        In your BIOS you should just have optimized defaults turned on.
        If you are overclocking make sure you have good PSU, as cheaping out on PSU will yield you an overclocking rig which doesn't overclock. In general, if you are building a system with threadripper, you should put in at least a 1K psu.

        1. In bios enter the timings for 3200 mhz profile. You need to enter timings in several places.
          • Extreme tweaker for general voltages (recommended you put all the voltages to Manual, CPU is usually ok ~ 1.3-1.4 V depending on cooling. SOC and RAM voltages are incredibly tricky. These have an extremely narrow margin depending the rank of your memory and how many sticks you are using. Set it exactly to what the Ryzen dram app says.
          • In tweaker's paradise / nightmare, you have to sellect load line calibration aka llc and put a number 1-3 usually works well. See 1usmus examples in the google doc here for those settings, although you can probably get away with defaults ->http://www.overclock.net/t/1640919/ryzen-dram-calculator-overclocking-dram
            Make sure you set the DRAM start volts to the same values you have in your extreme tweaker.
          • You also have to go through ASUS's painful bios menu in the Advanced tab
          • Gradually go up in frequencies until you reach your desired number.
          • That's it. I suspect all the people whose Zenith mobo won't run their ram at the numbers they paid for simply have dual rank ram which is actually better to have than single rank (hence thats why servers use dual rank or even quad and higher rank)
Ok that's it. Overall, it is an amazing board, with rather fine components and really good layout. Excellent m.2 integration. GPUs work flawlessly, ffs, 4xGPUs pulling 1K from the wall, with 32 threads. Yeah, this is not a bad platform, this is a supercomputer. Expecting to OC it as if it were a quadcore is not realistic.

*UPDATE* There are no updates.



if you are going to outsource the DDR4 ram settings to some forum members, especially on your flagship personal computer motherboard, which is something that your multibillion company is known for....you might need to tell him that dual-rank ram kits exist....and maybe include some presets for those modules.

Your solution, of saying "Dual rank" modules are not supported is not exactly true. If anything higher rank memory is what you want for a massively parallel computer (hence this is why servers use them, and what threadripper chips are is simply epyc chips)

Threadripper chips are most likely exactly 32 core/64 thread chips with certain dies disabled. Also, they are not entry level chips fyi, they are like middle to high tier EPYC chips. They probably can run all 32 cores/4 dies, but you probably would not like that as a desktop it as it would have them running around 2.4 to 2.6 ghz. So quit talking smack about the memory controller being weak. This is not something you would want running windows, you would need a lot of ram, the mobo would have to be stripped of most things you enjoy like colored blinking lights, musicing, etc. It would run very slow. As a side note, an 1950x overclocked to 4ghz you are getting speeds/compute power of epyc chips, well close to like 85-90% clocks. Which is pretty good considering you don't use any of that for anything besides benchmarking
smile.gif


Overall, this board is for tinkering and most importantly doing work. Now back to $#!77y code which has more bugs than Zenith bios
wink.gif


p.s. linux is like napalm, very powerful, and if not handled properly, it destroys things like filesystems, hopes/dreams, smaller cats, but rats also.

FYI, here is my not-on-qvl-dual-rank-samsung-E(short for EEEW:rolleyes:)-die ram running faster than its supposed to on the Asus zenith 1950x Ryzen system
thumb.gif
(apparently shoulda just gone and gotten single rank B-die and thrown away the 10-15% extra performance)

Samsung Eeew die

Also, fter watching various hardware wizards on youtube and this site post their build pictures and sweet RGB money shot videos/pics, I am very curious why all of them ignored to plug in all the power connectors for their extreme build featuring 32 cores which they are overclocking ever so expertly? Shrug
rolleyes.gif


 

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cool thread
 

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LOL +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPP ++++++++++++++++

enjoyed this alot. Nice quick research!!!

love the memory ratings + B-die E-die examples. hilarious.
 

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Dude if Rick Sanchez bothered to post in forums, he'd be this guy. Well done sir, I'd offer you some isotope 322 if I had some laying around.
 

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LOOL ... Keng can you post a AIDA64 ? I'm curious about how perform those Dual Rank memory
biggrin.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexer View Post

LOOL ... Keng can you post a AIDA64 ? I'm curious about how perform those Dual Rank memory
biggrin.gif
Yeah, here you go, this is untweaked 2T 3466...I think you could get higher with lower clocks and tighter timinings, but you can compare it to same thing people have with 1 rank


Edit: Here you go tighter timings for comparison
 

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Keng Do you actually work with the computer ? Like rendering or that stuff. Have you tested with intensive programs ?.
I build a second X399 system with 4x8GB 3200mhz b-die using your settings, the calculator and taking some advices that read on the forum. It was HCI 400% stable but i tried some workload of my client always do this when i build a custom workstation and I had system freeze and some crashes. So I leave the ram at 2666Mhz
redface.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hey lexer and all, I do.
I too choose lower settings such as 3200. The reason is as follows.

In order to have ram run at speed x, your cpu you has to run at 1.25x the frequency due to how memory fabric works.

This is buried deep inside AMD programming cpu tech doc, will find reference later.
Also, we should put down the pitchforks.
It is not ASUS's fault.

AMD has not released something called BKDG for 17h processor family. Don't worry about what that is. As a matter of fact, nobody can make bios for AMD Zen properly due to AMD not releasing the BIOS Kit Developer Guide. You can also look through the ASUS drivers for their EPYC servers, they just say things as per AMD DMI, this should be set to xyz, etc.

I suspect AMD can't release the full scoop as it will quickly become obvious that all 4 dies work on thread rippers and probably all RYZEN. It just has to go this way as the memory fabric between two CC6s would not be able to support DDR4! It is one channel per @#%@^@ die as per Lisa Su's tech talk. Therefore, you cannot disable a die and have DDR4 on Ryzen, Threadripper, Epyc or any other memory fabric chip.
 

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Good thread. I am actually shopping memory for my 1950x/Asus Zenith Black Friday combo.

Keng, why do you pick this set of ram CMU32GX4M4C3466C16? Were you trying to get dual rank memory and this set has samsung e-dies?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Its just the ram I had. Works fine, learned a lot in the process. I recommend you get single rank ram.

Most of the memory benchmarks are meaningless as the benchmarks don't take into account anything close to real world i.e. how the os uses different threads and how they use memory.
Also, this HPET business has been funny. I can with relative ease show you Ryzen crushing everything under sun or Intel on same benchmarks. You have to understand that the timers being used by the cpu are increasingly complex and numerous. This whole HPET business is bananas. FYI HPET is enabled in all ASUS Zenith bioses.
 

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I have E-die dual rank too on my LPX 3000Mhz. I was able to run DOCP profile (2933) and everyting runs stable. The weird thing is though DOCP sets tRFC timing to 72... It should be 52 accoring to timing table safed on the memory itself. Manually setting tRFC to 52 makes errors pop up in MemTest
mad.gif


Does anyone have any tips what I could try. Im still newb on Ryzen platform .

Im running a 1700X and STRIX X370-F.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Here is the 3200 Mhz Quad at 1t with same settings as above.



As a side, I would try setting the ProcODT setting to Auto if you have difficulty with the settings that the RYZEN Ram calculator gives you and enter all of the other timings. This way, the mobo has less parameters to train, and you really have to make sure you get the On Die Termination things right, or the RAM will just not post (it will be like your computer doesn't have ram).
 
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