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Discussion Starter #1
From what I understand and what I've experience, frame rates that are not dividable by the refresh of your monitor cause judder because the frame timings don't match up. I notice this when games I am playing even dip below just 60, there is a some slight judder, and its why I try to always play all games at a flawless 60.

For an extreme example of judder watch
For a more subtle, but still very obvious and distracting watch this 50 progressive frame video
In both cases the judder should be obvious, causing eye strain inducing artifacts and very rough sense of movement.

So my question is, assuming we are not playing on a g/free-sync monitor, and not using vsync, do 144hz monitors experience judder with 60 fps gameplay? Or even 85 fps, or other non-dividable numbers?
 

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60 fps does look smoother on a 60 Hz monitor than a 144 Hz monitor, in my experience. As you mentioned, mostly likely there is stutter due to the non-divisible numbers.
 

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Originally Posted by Chimeracaust View Post

Anyone able to speak to this?
Not really. It won't cause judder in the traditional sense of the concept because the display won't try to show complete frames. There will be some motion artifacts, but not as pronounced. Instead, it will add tearing to the mix. 60 FPS real time rendering v-sync off on a 144 Hz display won't be as nauseating as 60 FPS video playback. The effect might even go unnoticed by most users.
 

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Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Not really. It won't cause judder in the traditional sense of the concept because the display won't try to show complete frames. There will be some motion artifacts, but not as pronounced. Instead, it will add tearing to the mix. 60 FPS real time rendering v-sync off on a 144 Hz display won't be as nauseating as 60 FPS video playback. The effect might even go unnoticed by most users.
60 fps video will look like 50 fps video on a 60hz display?

Basically what I am getting at, is I really need to go all in on a g-sync monitor it seems.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimeracaust View Post

Basically what I am getting at, is I really need to go all in on a g-sync monitor it seems.
It doesn't hurt. VRR is great.
 

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Originally Posted by Chimeracaust View Post

Anyone able to speak to this?
Higher refresh rates have less noticable judder, tearing etc - even at/below 60fps.

A perfectly even 50fps at 60hz is 10 frames for every 12 screen refreshes, while on 144hz it's 10 frames for every 29 refreshes.
Quote:
60 fps video will look like 50 fps video on a 60hz display?

Basically what I am getting at, is I really need to go all in on a g-sync monitor it seems.
Wouldn't look nearly that bad, but you can always set the screen to 120hz for your 60fps video content to be displayed perfectly. Being able to set 60, 100, 120, 144hz etc covers most video content very well.

~60fps gameplay is a different story because of variable frametimes, you wouldn't want to set a 144hz monitor down to 120hz for that; higher refresh rates are better. To put this in simple terms when your game says 60fps the frametimes are most likely actually jumping around wildly between ~54-66fps, the FPS meter is simply an average of the last 50 or 60 data points. You can't match a refresh rate to this.

Gsync has sometimes been oversimplistically explained as changing the screen refresh rate to match the FPS number. That's not exaclty what happens; it functions by giving the monitor the ability to pause and not start the next refresh until there is a new frame ready, rather than just refreshing continuously and either delaying a new frame to the next refresh or cutting to the new frame partway through the refresh. If you're playing at 80fps, that means that your screen is changing "refresh rate" 80 times or more per second.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Higher refresh rates have less noticable judder, tearing etc - even at/below 60fps.

A perfectly even 50fps at 60hz is 10 frames for every 12 screen refreshes, while on 144hz it's 10 frames for every 29 refreshes.
Wouldn't look nearly that bad, but you can always set the screen to 120hz for your 60fps video content to be displayed perfectly. Being able to set 60, 100, 120, 144hz etc covers most video content very well.

~60fps gameplay is a different story because of variable frametimes, you wouldn't want to set a 144hz monitor down to 120hz for that; higher refresh rates are better. To put this in simple terms when your game says 60fps the frametimes are most likely actually jumping around wildly between ~54-66fps, the FPS meter is simply an average of the last 50 or 60 data points. You can't match a refresh rate to this.

Gsync has sometimes been oversimplistically explained as changing the screen refresh rate to match the FPS number. That's not exaclty what happens; it functions by giving the monitor the ability to pause and not start the next refresh until there is a new frame ready, rather than just refreshing continuously and either delaying a new frame to the next refresh or cutting to the new frame partway through the refresh. If you're playing at 80fps, that means that your screen is changing "refresh rate" 80 times or more per second.
I am thinking of games that are locked at 60fps, like Dark Souls 2 and 3, Metal Gear, etc. Those are the games I am concerned about having judder, but if I just need to set to 120 to eliminate that, I am pretty pleased.
 

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Judder and stuttering are two different things. Judder is directly tied to the framerate (higher = less judder). Stuttering happens when there is a mismatch between refresh rate and framerate with Vsync on, i.e 60FPS on 144Hz, resulting in some frames being displayed for a longer time. Higher refresh rates definitely reduce stutter at any framerate.
 

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Vsync stutter is just one form of stutter. People refer to all kinds of problems with 5 different names so it's impossible to guess without a description of the problem
 

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Originally Posted by Pereb View Post

Judder and stuttering are two different things. Judder is directly tied to the framerate (higher = less judder). Stuttering happens when there is a mismatch between refresh rate and framerate with Vsync on, i.e 60FPS on 144Hz, resulting in some frames being displayed for a longer time. Higher refresh rates definitely reduce stutter at any framerate.
I was under the impression that what you are calling stutter is judder.
 
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