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I know messing with RAM is dumb because of virtually no performance increase, but I know everyone here can respect another man's e-peen. I have some value ram rated for 11-11-11-28 and 1600mhz at 1.5v. However, I've been messing with it and found that it can either go to [email protected], or [email protected], but not both. Which one of those oc's would be superior?
 

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[email protected] should perform better cause per usual frequency is king. However, I recommend running any 2D benchmark like Wprime or superPI and compating both results. In a 2D bench such as those the RAM timings/frequency will make a difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Here's a good read
Tight Timings vs High Clock Frequencies


actually, after reading that article, it seems quite outdated. I bet the same principles apply though, especially the fact that the difference between the two tradeoffs are most likely within a few percentage points.
I think it depends on what CPU you have. The AMD Phenom II's loved higher frequency with NB overclock. There was drastic improvements with this in benches, although I'm not sure how much that translates to real world performance. I was seeing results of nearly 20% better in things like MAXXMEM vs CL8 1600.

Not sure how Intel fares with frequency vs. timings, but I suspect frequency would pull ahead also, although CL11 is a bit high for only 1866. I think i'd just stick to CL9 1600 if on Intel.

If you want to know which is best for you, try running both settings on MAXXMEM and compare the results.
 

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Thanks lacrosse, I've seen a few guides similar to this with really outdated RAM and it just looks like something completely different lol. I guess according to the graphs, clock speed is more important, and as soon as I finished reading that mindblowing confirmed it. Thank you both for the lightning quick responses!
 

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Phenom IIs loved tight timings. With new FX series they seem to perform better @1866 or above, not as timing dependant.
 

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I would test both speeds with a few benchmarks and see which one produces better results. Under normal use 9-9-9-24 1600 should be the better performer, but every system is a little different.
 

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Phenom 2 x4 965 with ram timings at 7-7-7-20 is that to tight of a timing at 1334? Not sure really much on ram just read a few articles and what not but I think I just some basic cheapy ddr3 so not sire if I can really change much more than timmings on it

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No such thing as too tight, so long as it's stable (enough for its intended use).

I do a lot of memory benching, and while I'm nowhere near the level of some of our world class benchers, I am not half bad (I like to think anyway lol).

My experience with the Phenom II, SNB, SNB-E, and IVB has been:
PHENOM II - You want to get the highest stable Northbridge speed, but memory speed is of secondary importance to timings once this is done. Something like 1780 7-8-7-20 1T is going to be very preferable to 2000 10-11-10-30 1T, for example. Of course, push frequency as high as possible, but every chip has a point where the frequency gains don't outweigh the latency losses.
SANDY/SANDY-E - Regular SNB, get it as high as it will go and then tighten the timings from there; in most cases, this is DDR3-2133 or so. However, SNB-E allows you to push well beyond that, with my 3930K having a strong IMC and allowing speeds of around 2600. The rule I've found is that if you have to increase any of the timings by more than one for a 266Mhz clock gain, it's going tobe eeither no different or even worse. The sweet spot for my SNB-E benching has been between 2133 9-10-9-25 1T, 2488 9-12-10-27 1T, and at theuupper end around 2580 to 2660 10-12-10-26 1T.
IVY - Frequency is king, with the best kits being the GSkill Trident X 2400 9-11-11 and 2666 10-11-11, as the SamsungHYK0 IC's jjust are a perfect match for IVB. If you can hit 3000 or higher, you will see gains, despite the loose timings.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

No such thing as too tight, so long as it's stable (enough for its intended use).

I do a lot of memory benching, and while I'm nowhere near the level of some of our world class benchers, I am not half bad (I like to think anyway lol).

My experience with the Phenom II, SNB, SNB-E, and IVB has been:
PHENOM II - You want to get the highest stable Northbridge speed, but memory speed is of secondary importance to timings once this is done. Something like 1780 7-8-7-20 1T is going to be very preferable to 2000 10-11-10-30 1T, for example. Of course, push frequency as high as possible, but every chip has a point where the frequency gains don't outweigh the latency losses.
SANDY/SANDY-E - Regular SNB, get it as high as it will go and then tighten the timings from there; in most cases, this is DDR3-2133 or so. However, SNB-E allows you to push well beyond that, with my 3930K having a strong IMC and allowing speeds of around 2600. The rule I've found is that if you have to increase any of the timings by more than one for a 266Mhz clock gain, it's going tobe eeither no different or even worse. The sweet spot for my SNB-E benching has been between 2133 9-10-9-25 1T, 2488 9-12-10-27 1T, and at theuupper end around 2580 to 2660 10-12-10-26 1T.
IVY - Frequency is king, with the best kits being the GSkill Trident X 2400 9-11-11 and 2666 10-11-11, as the SamsungHYK0 IC's jjust are a perfect match for IVB. If you can hit 3000 or higher, you will see gains, despite the loose timings.
so do u think the 7-8-7-20 on 1334 would yeild better results better than even 7-7-7-20 my cpu-nb is at 3000/3200 dram vaults 1.7 CPU is oced at 4.3 from 3.4 at 1.47volts on h70 crossair using a 990fxa-ud3 board no clue what the ram is was just 40 bucks for 2 4gig sticks so nothing fancy

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post

Phenom II/Athlon II likes tight timing vs. Speed or bandwith.
FX/APU likes speed or bandwith vs. tight timing.
in that theory what do u think is the tightest timings I could reach ? Like u have any low timmings uve tryed or anything I'm currently at 7-7-7-20 1334mhz

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Haha thanks, glad you like my car
smile.gif


I would personally spend some time doing the following, in this order:
- Read a few guides on "tuning" RAM for Phenom II CPU's (excellent guides here and @ ROG forums)
- Mentally prepare yourself for a LOT of blue screens!!!!
- Spend as long as it takes to find the perfect balance of speed (frequency of memory) to timings to NB speed; there is no magic number that I am aware of (although one may certainly exist; I just bench Intel nowadays), so what's best for your machine is quite likely different than what's best for someone Else's
- Focus on the following timings in order of importance: tRCD, tCAS, tRP, Command Rate, and then the tertiaries; tRAS is pretty much just a "stability" timing, never seen it do anything for performance really

If it were me, I would shoot for a slight overclock (over the stock 1600), say 1688 or 1728, with timings around 7-8-8-20 1T, but as high as 7-9-8-24 1T should be perfectly acceptable.

Don't be afraid to increase your vDIMM!!! 1.5v is nothing, you can push those to 1.65v for 24/7 and not do a single bit of damage; heck, I run as high as 1.8xx volts 24/7 at times, and I have yet to kill a memory kit from too much voltage during 24/7 use!
 

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Also can't seem to get it to boot with 3200mhz nb either not sure maybe u guys can give me some setting you all have tryed full system spec are ... Amd phenom 2 x4 965 CPU , radeon HD 6870 , gigabyte 990Fxa-UD3 mobo , h70 crossair water cooled ...ram is idk was 40 bucks for 2, 4gig sticks.. Hope this u all help me!! Thanks!!!

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Alright well have to take a look at this more in depth tomorrow had a few drinks tonight so I don't wanna respond with something completely dumb hahah thanks man for the reply and will take a look at it for sure and reply tomorrow!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky12 View Post

in that theory what do u think is the tightest timings I could reach ? Like u have any low timmings uve tryed or anything I'm currently at 7-7-7-20 1334mhz

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I have some 1333 that I can oc to 1600 7-7-7-24-1T.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky12 View Post

Also can't seem to get it to boot with 3200mhz nb either not sure maybe u guys can give me some setting you all have tryed full system spec are ... Amd phenom 2 x4 965 CPU , radeon HD 6870 , gigabyte 990Fxa-UD3 mobo , h70 crossair water cooled ...ram is idk was 40 bucks for 2, 4gig sticks.. Hope this u all help me!! Thanks!!!

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Your chip is probrably good for about 3000MHz NB speed as is, maybe a little higher than what you are trying to do with more extreme cooling methods used.

I have to disagree with the OP - Tweaking RAM does make a difference and I know this from years of simply doing it. In some cases probrably woudn't make much difference if any but in others it makes a world of difference indeed.

I have pulled off many PI runs along with other kinds of benching over the years and can say (At least from what I've seen personally) RAM speed is overall better but tighter timings will help if you can do it. Combining both is the desired result of one's tweaking and if you can do it, you will see a nice boost in system performance. I can say in gaming and the like it helps too.

I recently did a 32M PI run with my 4300 Vishy using both, high RAM speeds and tighter timings to see what I could do with it at or under 5GHz. After loading up Stilt's BD conditioner software patch along with the tweaks used, I was able to get this run completed on watercooling with the RAM at 1.70V's used. I understand that not everyone will be able to run their RAM this high with these timings but it shows if you can do both, tweaking RAM can be worth it - That's my take on it.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky12 View Post

Also can't seem to get it to boot with 3200mhz nb either not sure maybe u guys can give me some setting you all have tryed full system spec are ... Amd phenom 2 x4 965 CPU , radeon HD 6870 , gigabyte 990Fxa-UD3 mobo , h70 crossair water cooled ...ram is idk was 40 bucks for 2, 4gig sticks.. Hope this u all help me!! Thanks!!!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Your chip is probrably good for about 3000MHz NB speed as is, maybe a little higher than what you are trying to do with more extreme cooling methods used.

I have to disagree with the OP - Tweaking RAM does make a difference and I know this from years of simply doing it. In some cases probrably woudn't make much difference if any but in others it makes a world of difference indeed.

I have pulled off many PI runs along with other kinds of benching over the years and can say (At least from what I've seen personally) RAM speed is overall better but tighter timings will help if you can do it. Combining both is the desired result of one's tweaking and if you can do it, you will see a nice boost in system performance. I can say in gaming and the like it helps too.

I recently did a 32M PI run with my 4300 Vishy using both, high RAM speeds and tighter timings to see what I could do with it at or under 5GHz. After loading up Stilt's BD conditioner software patch along with the tweaks used, I was able to get this run completed on watercooling with the RAM at 1.70V's used. I understand that not everyone will be able to run their RAM this high with these timings but it shows if you can do both, tweaking RAM can be worth it - That's my take on it.

actually I thin idk how but I think I some how managed to pull off 3200mhz nb not exactly sure if I keeped results or returned back to what I have off for the night will check to morrow and report back.. Also didn't take any pics of the ram trimmings due to 7-7-7-20 1334 is about I think the best I'm going to get with my ram setup

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