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[Reddit] Digital Foundry made a critical mistake with their Kingshunt FSR Testing...

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I noticed in the written guide they put up that they had a picture of 4k Native, which looked just as blurry on the character's textures and lace as FSR upscaling from 1080p. So FSR wasn't the problem, and actually looked very close to Native.
Messing around with Unreal Unlocker. I enabled TAAU (r.TemporalAA.Upsampling 1) and immediately noticed that the whole character looked far better and the blur was removed.
Native: TAAU: I had already disabled Motion Blur and Depth of Field in the settings but the image still didn't look good with TAAU off.
I started playing with other effects such as r.PostProcessAAQuality but it still looked blurry with TAAU disabled. I finally found that sg.PostProcessQuality 0 made the image look so much better... which makes no sense because that is disabling all the post processing effects!
So one by one I started disabling effects, and r.DepthOfFieldQuality 0 was the winner.. which was odd because I'd already disabled it in the settings.
So I restarted the game to make sure nothing else was conflicting and to reset all my console changes, double checked that DOF was disabled, yet clearly still making it look bad, and then did a quick few tests
Native (no changes from UUU): Native (r.DepthOfFieldQuality 0): FSR Ultra Quality (r.DepthOfFieldQuality 0): TAAU (r.TemporalAA.Upsampling 1 and r.SecondaryScreenPercentage.GameViewport 77): https://i.imgur.com/SPJs8Xg.jpg
As you can see, FSR Ultra Quality looks better than TAAU for the same FPS once you force disable DepthOfField, which TAAU is already doing (likely because its forced not directly integrated into the game).

The original article is found here: AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution tested: big fps wins - but image quality suffers
Mid way -> Launch Comparison Tool -> Click on the 3rd thumbnail which makes a 4way Performance, Quality, Ultra Quality, and Native. You can right-click on the image and open in a new tab to just view the full images
This is how you find it. Showing this comparison: AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution tested: big fps wins - but image quality suffers

Start at 11:19


Tech PowerUp did a pretty good job with their comparison of the game found below for a comparison. It clearly shows that FSR works quiet well in that game. There is no indication that TAAU was used through UE's UU. Thus doesn't appear to be compared to bring you this comparison between native and FSR. Which is why the comparison is made between reviewer's results.



Cliffs:

In a nutshell. DF used a game called Kingshunt to compare FSR using an app for the unreal engine called unreal unlocker to enable TAAU. Giving TAAU the impression that it was better then FSR. However, based on the investigation by the original poster TAAU disabled something called DepthOfFiedlQuality. Which sharpens the image. Thus giving the illusion that TAAU is "better then native". When in fact it is not. When DepthOfFieldQuality is disabled and compared, properly, FSR is superior to TAAU!!!!

Which makes you wonder how many other games use something like DepthOfFieldQuality that blurs the native image to have an "upscaler" show it's "better then native" when used. However, internally it is disabling a post processing feature that is on by default. It is not clear why these mistakes were made but it, falsely, puts FSR in a bad light. Why was Unreal Unlocker even used in a IQ comparison review just to use TAAU when it's not native in game? For example.

However, this is placed in the rumor, unconfirmed section of this forum. As I would hate to assume this was done intentionally.
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· PC Evangelist
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I don't think making quality comparisons with jpg images is a good idea. We need very high quality video to actually get a sense of the quality. My main problems with DLSS 1.0 did not show up in screenshots they way they did in game.

YouTube is useless as well, looking better after YouTube got done with it is not the same as looking better in person.
I have tried FSR in Gofall and Dota 2 with 3080 and I can tell you it is far better than DLSS 1.0, but that is not saying much DLSS 1.0 you had to pay for it.
 
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I was wondering why the other thread has been closed?!

Now i understand why!
I thought it was due to that one massive fanboy spamming and bashing FSR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
Now they are caught using sharpening on a native image to make FSR look that much more blur. The level of deception is off the charts. Lol.

-caught using a mod to force taau that adds depth of field quality to native image. Making it blurry. That is disabled when taau is enabled in kingshunt and godsfall..

-caught sharpening the native image with Cas, etc. In an attempt to make fsr look more blurry then it is. Tricking people in thinking that the native image is that sharp when it's not.

This is how you double down. With this special tailored, secret test methodology for FSR. And I do mean specially tailored, LOL.

He even thinks that fsr uses Cas. But it uses rcas:
A sharpening pass called RCAS (Robust Contrast-Adaptive Sharpening) that extracts pixel detail in the upscaled image
🤣😂
 

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Now they are caught using sharpening on a native image to make FSR look that much more blur. The level of deception is off the charts. Lol.

-caught using a mod to force taau that adds depth of field quality to native image. Making it blurry. That is disabled when taau is enabled in kingshunt and godsfall..

-caught sharpening the native image with Cas, etc. In an attempt to make fsr look more blurry then it is. Tricking people in thinking that the native image is that sharp when it's not.

This is how you double down. With this special tailored, secret test methodology for FSR. And I do mean specially tailored, LOL.

He even thinks that fsr uses Cas. But it uses rcas:

🤣😂
Since FSR uses a sharpening filter as part of it's post processing then it should be disabled in the game settings when using it. Otherwise you will get two passes of sharpening instead of the one. Hardware Unboxed addressed this in their review. It is hard for me to imagine that was not in the reviewers guide from AMD. If you are going to compare to native with CAS then just note the difference.

I am not ready yet to cry maleficence, but the test methodologies that they chose all put FSR in the most negative light possible. It is much better to use the optimal test settings for FSR and then talk about why those settings are not ideal in some respect when making comparisons later. Just be more transparent.
 

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Since FSR uses a sharpening filter as part of it's post processing then it should be disabled in the game settings when using it. Otherwise you will get two passes of sharpening instead of the one. Hardware Unboxed addressed this in their review. It is hard for me to imagine that was not in the reviewers guide from AMD. If you are going to compare to native with CAS then just note the difference.

I am not ready yet to cry maleficence, but the test methodologies that they chose all put FSR in the most negative light possible. It is much better to use the optimal test settings for FSR and then talk about why those settings are not ideal in some respect when making comparisons later. Just be more transparent.
I would mostly agree, but for the fact about the optimal settings.


"Better" is a subjective assessment and any comparison that doesn't define what 'better' means isn't of much use.
As @Blameless pointed out, you need first to define the parameters and settings, that make the comparison possible.
Mostly based on the rendering pipeline of nowadays gpu, from beginning of the pipeline, to the post-processing, just before leaving for the frame buffer.

The true transparency is defining what you consider the peak image quality nowadays, taking account of what described above.
At this point, you can make a comparison and give objective point of view.

That can be subjective anyway, again as @Blameless pointed out, how each person then perceive the scene is subjective.
Some like effects more than others, in my case for example, the motion blur make me puke.
And i would not play a game, if i couldn't disable it.
 

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Why isn't this downvoted more?

 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I am not ready yet to cry maleficence, but the test methodologies that they chose all put FSR in the most negative light possible.
It's the level of subterfuge in how they compared TAAU by adding it as a mod to show IQ comparisons against FSR. Makes me believe they knew something wasn't right with the native image when TAAU was added. And the fact that sharpening the native image on the other side of the spectrum. Going from blurry to sharp native image depending on the upscaler used.
Blurry when comparing it to TAAU.
Sharp when compared to FSR.
This, to me, clearly shows a deliberate, contrived strategy in how they tested TAAU differently then FSR. It's something I cannot ignore.

This is what I call deceptive and nefarious. This is what is being echoed in other forums and reddit. That it looks to be intentionally done to make FSR look bad. It is because of that I see the maleficence. This is by no means championing it as "fact" but my opinion based on the information presented.
 

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More fuel for the fire :)

By the way, why did the other thread close?
I'm not really sure, I didn't see anything rise to the level of needing to close the thread. But if you judge by the posts that got removed from this thread, it seems like there might have been a certain someone being overly negative to the point of basically claiming everyone was wrong except him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
UPDATE 24/6/21:
There's been some confusion around the Kingshunt comparisons in the first screenshot gallery below, specifically the image comparing default upscaling to FSR and TAAU. The aim of this gallery is to show that temporal upscalers can resolve detail that FSR misses, but the comparison doesn't take into account that post-process effects like depth of field adjust according to resolution, adding further artefacts. To address this, we've added a Godfall gallery beneath, which strips out post-process effects and injects UE4's TAAU technology and shows the detail differences without additional artefacts.
Instead of address Kingshunt (which the developer patched dof btw) he goes on to GodFall in the vain attempt to prove that TAAU is still better. There is your maleficence right there. The update doesn't, at all, address the original IQ comparison that started all this. Kingshunt. Because he knows that when DOF is disabled FSR looks better.
So now we are left with Godfall that shows an over sharpen native image which wasn't clearly explained in the original article.
 

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Instead of address Kingshunt (which the developer patched dof btw) he goes on to GodFall in the vain attempt to prove that TAAU is still better. There is your maleficence right there. The update doesn't, at all, address the original IQ comparison that started all this. Kingshunt. Because he knows that when DOF is disabled FSR looks better.
So now we are left with Godfall that shows an over sharpen native image which wasn't clearly explained in the original article.
Yeah I don't understand and I can't defend it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Yeah I don't understand and I can't defend it.
IMO, using GodFall because it wasn't scrutinized like Kingshunt and the fact that the developer stepped in and patch the DOF out of the game. None of which was will state in this hit piece. However, TAAU isn't native in GodFall. Something he didn't elaborate in any detail as to how or why he's using it. Other then an attempt to try to down play FSR.

I really haven't paid much attention to DF other then the odd AMD hate piece every once in a while. However, after today with several threads on other forums and reddit talking about DF. They took a substantial hit to their reputation, IMO. Will it mean anything by the end of summer who knows. But we aren't the only ones here at OC talking about it. That's for certain.
 

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However, after today with several threads on other forums and reddit talking about DF. They took a substantial hit to their reputation, IMO.
does "them/they" in general refer to whole DF?? or its just that fanboi reviewer??

well whatever route that goes, I don't give a fakk anyways on their reviews..methodologies are obscure and the smell of fanboism is leaking

EDIT: why don't you just use Reshade on top of FSR for those complaining on quality..I did remember when I previously played Control and had dlss and RT on applying Reshade on top does help with quality..
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
does "them/they" in general refer to whole DF?? or its just that fanboi reviewer??

well whatever route that goes, I don't give a fakk anyways on their reviews..methodologies are obscure and the smell of fanboism is leaking

EDIT: why don't you just use Reshade on top of FSR for those complaining on quality..I did remember when I previously played Control and had dlss and RT on applying Reshade on top does help with quality..
Let me give you a little snippet of how bad this is.

It's being talked about in other countries!!!!
Yeah, it's that bad.
 

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Here a little follow up, for the sake of decency and information sharing.
I was reading the updates from the Reddit Hardware thread.

Here are a couple of posts, among others, that deserve to be pointed out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/o6sx19/_/h2vfqvr
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/o6sx19/_/h2v0cpy
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/o6sx19/_/h2w1uki
I let you read, take a look at the data provided and make your own conclusion.


Tho, i feel that some here, like @EastCoast, @Hueristic should need to take a leave, @mllrkllr88.
I also feel, that they are not the only ones!
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
Here a little follow up, for the sake of decency and information sharing.
I was reading the updates from the Reddit Hardware thread.

Here are a couple of posts, among others, that deserve to be pointed out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/o6sx19/_/h2vfqvr
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/o6sx19/_/h2v0cpy
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/o6sx19/_/h2w1uki
I let you read, take a look at the data provided and make your own conclusion.
Tho, i feel that some here, like @EastCoast, @Hueristic should need to take a leave, @mllrkllr88.
I also feel, that they are not the only ones!
Your response is a bit nebulous. And is not clear what your intent is. However, to be clear, using TAAU is debunked as a valid upscaler because it's been found to add post processing effect(s) that alter the native image. Which are disabled when TAAU is enabled. We know of one that lowers native IQ. I am sure there are others that have not been discovered as of yet.

Well, here you go:
Bug Fixes

  • Fixed: Depth of Field
  • Fixed: Voicelines should now be more audible
  • Adjustment to Flame- and Icetower collision so it is easier to navigate and combat around them
Released on June 24, 2021. Since the fix and the update to the original hit piece the author no longer discusses KingsHunt. But lets go to GodsFall then since that is what you are implying.
Again, we are back to were we started. We are still seeing the same thing. So communicate with me for a moment so I can fully understand your intent. Are you implying that we ignore how forcing TAAU into a game that wasn't designed for it. And, wasn't designed as to how it's rendered by AMD. To show that, from your view point, that TAAU is better inspite of the controversy surrounding it's implementation and what it really does?
 

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So basically it took them an hour to find differences and come to the conclusion that "performance" is not good and equal performance to "balanced". Then focused more on what we already know and kinda beat around the bush on "quality" and then say "ultra quality" is good? lol I think any of us could have done that in 10mins. I think our definitions of "deserved to be pointed out" are different as I view it as "things we already know".
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
So basically it took them an hour to find differences and come to the conclusion that "performance" is not good and equal performance to "balanced". Then focused more on what we already know and kinda beat around the bush on "quality" and then say "ultra quality" is good? lol I think any of us could have done that in 10mins. I think our definitions of "deserved to be pointed out" are different as I view it as "things we already know".
Yeah, their article is nothing more then a hit piece.
 
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