[GHADthc]

I notice a lot of discussion regarding this subject and how such and such mouse is no good because of having this trait.
I find it odd though, because I was under the impression mouse acceleration can be disabled on all mice with a simple reg edit, as well as turning off enhance pointer precision, is it somehow inherently built into the sensor of some mice, where no tricks can get rid of it?

For instance I see a lot of canning of certain mice for these reasons, sometimes jitter as well, but that doesn't effect me because I'm a low DPI type of guy, and just recently I read up on a discussion about the Steelseries Raw, there were a lot of complaints about the sensor, and certain things, such as the rubber surface (With my grip style, a sort of hybrid claw/palm, isn't an issue), the software and such, which granted is a personal thing and is completely legitimate, but what I find odd is the complaints about the sensor.

From my recent experience with it after tweaking it and using it in some FPS games, CS:S, CS:GO and BF3, once I tested it rather thoroughly I found it to be just as good, if not even better than say, the Zowie AM that I own, granted the LOD is slightly more, and the stock feet it came with are not the greatest (I'm planning on replacing them), its also a bit heavier than the AM, which doesn't bother me so much, it would be nice if it was a bit lighter, but for the most part, I found it about equal to the AM in terms of being able to consistently aim with it.

In fact I find it's pretty hard to discern the slight differences in quite a few mice that I have collected after tweaking them all and running them with the exact same DPI's and mice settings in CS:S (450DPI, 1000Hz, m_customaccel 0, m_rawinput 0, m_yaw 0.022, m_pitch 0.022, sensitivity 3, as well as -noforcemspd -noforcemparms -noforcemacce in the launch options).

To me it literally comes down to shape, feel, weight, how the feet glide on my mousepad and the feel of the wheel and buttons, I've yet to experience angle snapping (Though this can be a legitimate problem on select mice, but can also sometimes be turned off on some that have it), noticeable mouse acceleration, jittering after giving the mice the same tweaks, why do people seem to get so bent out of shape about something that as far as I know, is easily fixed?...

 

[FoxWolf1]

Well, let's be clear about a few things...

First, acceleration, viewed only in the abstract, is a preference. Some people like the idea of having the cursor move more when the mouse is moved quickly, so that they can make large on-screen movements with smaller mouse movements while retaining low-speed precision. Of course, preference is influenced by history; if one is used to a certain kind of mouse, other mice will feel off. Many people would not like even a "good" accelerating mouse, because they are harder to get used to.

Second, getting optimal results from a mouse, regardless of preferences, requires that the mouse demonstrate consistency with regards to its motion. That is, moving the mouse in a certain way should have the same effect on screen, with 0 pixels of deviation, 100% of the time. In theory, this can be true of both accelerating and non-accelerating mice.

Third, some mouse sensors contain a certain level of inherent and inconsistent acceleration. This is built into the sensor itself, and cannot be turned off. This acceleration is also imperfect in terms of its consistency-- at speed levels where the acceleration occurs, for these "bad" types of acceleration, a given movement distance at a given speed will not always result in exactly the same outcome. Even if one has a preference for acceleration, if the acceleration is not perfectly consistent, accuracy will suffer. This is the acceleration that people complain about.

Fourth, many of the problems in more expensive mice won't be immediately obvious in games. The mouse might "feel" fine, especially if you are used to it. You'll just be performing slightly sub-optimally-- as if you were a little less skilled than you actually are. Also, other aspects of the mouse, such as weight and weight distribution, shape, sensor position, glide speed and friction distribution, switch type and button design, etc. can affect your performance to a significant degree, to a point where you may perform better with a mouse that equips a flawed sensor than with another mouse that equips a flawless sensor. But it doesn't follow from this that the problem itself doesn't exist.

 

[superior]

In terms of raw aim Quake players are known for having the best, most of which use mouse acceleration and high sensitivities, fact of the matter is the brain can adapt, I don't use it my self but that's purely a preference.

 

[Ino.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by superior

In terms of raw aim Quake players are known for having the best, most of which use mouse acceleration and high sensitivities, fact of the matter is the brain can adapt, I don't use it my self but that's purely a preference.

Quake players don't use high sensitivities, only relative to the ultra low sens CS guys use. The most common sensitivity in Quake ranges from 25 to 45 cm/360.

And they use the very defined and accurate accel system in Quake which allows you to only let accel kick in after a certain threshold. That means you have no accel for precise aiming and target tracking while you can still move around very fast. If this type of consistent acceleration is mastered the results are great. It is much more difficult though to train your muscle memory to it compared to having it always 1:1.

On topic: the inconsistency of the A9500 and A9800 is there, but depending on your sensitivity you might never notice its +-5% acceleration. At my sens of 60cm/360 I did however, especially in fast games like TF2 and Quake, while it was less noticeable in games like BC2 with its much slower movement.

 

[Noismo]

Absolutely. Most of top Quakers don't use high sensitivity(and high accel too).

Personally I hate high sens and any acceleration, coz I don't wanna so much focus on my aim. Muscular memory is working better if I use low sens. In many stressful situations high sens is thing why you fail your shots so much by lose aim control. In terms of aim, coolleR's accuracy was increased when he switched accel to zero.

 

[superior]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ino.

Quake players don't use high sensitivities, only relative to the ultra low sens CS guys use. The most common sensitivity in Quake ranges from 25 to 45 cm/360.

That is considered "high" in terms of competitive FPS gaming goes, especially with the addition of mouse accel which isn't so commonly used in other competitive first person shooters, name me a single competitive FPS game that players would generally use something higher and I'll retract my comments.

 

[Ino.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by superior

That is considered "high" in terms of competitive FPS gaming goes, especially with the addition of mouse accel which isn't so commonly used in other competitive first person shooters, name me a single competitive FPS game that players would generally use something higher and I'll retract my comments.

That almost all professional players use lower sens doesn't change its definition. It's just evidence that low sens is superior when it comes to aiming consistency.

High sens is something with less than 10cm/360. I only know one successful competitive player who used insanely high sens (something like 2.5cm/360), and that is Slaughter in the BF games (BC2/BF3).

 

[superior]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ino.

That almost all professional players use lower sens doesn't change its definition. It's just evidence that low sens is superior when it comes to aiming consistency.

High sens is something with less than 10cm/360. I only know one successful competitive player who used insanely high sens (something like 2.5cm/360), and that is Slaughter in the BF games (BC2/BF3).

What is considered high or low is completely subjective to the genre/game/audience its self. In competitive CS a low sensitivity player would generally be playing between 400 dpi 1.5 sensitivity - 2 sensitivity, a medium sensitivity player would be between 2 and 2.5, a high sensitivity player between 2.5 and 3.5, I think this is pretty standard now but yes when it all boils down to it, these are all realistically low sensitivities but to whom? The pub player who uses a tiny mousepad with kittens on it from walmart?

 

[Axaion]

45cm/360 is not high sens, lol

 

[jjpjimmy]

http://accel.drok-radnik.com/

nifty software, i used this for most of ESEA TF2 season 13/14 as scout, poor documentation but insane amount of options.

I found that having a ridiculously low sens and using accel to basically look around was the best aiming technique.

 

[superior]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axaion

45cm/360 is not high sens, lol

You're right it isn't, that's roughly 2.3 on 400 dpi which is considered medium in competitive cs.

 

[kaingosu]

nvm

 

[Axaion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by superior

You're right it isn't, that's roughly 2.3 on 400 dpi which is considered medium in competitive cs.

45cm/360 is closer to low sens than it is medium, I cant even remember anyone who uses higher than 55cm/360.

So.. who uses more than 55cm/360?

 

[CtrlAltel1te]

I use in CS 400 dpi @ 1.5 sensitivity if I aint mistaking thats 69.2cm for a 360.

 

[test user]

Quote:

Originally Posted by superior

That is considered "high" in terms of competitive FPS gaming goes, especially with the addition of mouse accel which isn't so commonly used in other competitive first person shooters, name me a single competitive FPS game that players would generally use something higher and I'll retract my comments.

I dunno what your point is, but you can't say the 25 - 45 cm/360 Ino suggested could in your usual FPS game be considered high sensitivities. You can't put those in the same group with those that use under 10 cm/360.

 

[Axaion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CtrlAltel1te

I use in CS 400 dpi @ 1.5 sensitivity if I aint mistaking thats 69.2cm for a 360.

That is just absurdly low, any accel used?, lol - sorry i did mean pro gamers though. since thats what hes referring to i guess

 

[superior]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axaion

That is just absurdly low, any accel used?, lol - sorry i did mean pro gamers though. since thats what hes referring to i guess

It has been used by many professionals in games like Counter-Strike, it is enough to do a 180 from one side of your mouse pad to the other (assuming they use an XL mousepad), for some players that is all they need.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axaion

45cm/360 is closer to low sens than it is medium, I cant even remember anyone who uses higher than 55cm/360.

So.. who uses more than 55cm/360?

ScreaM? He has arguably the best aim in CS GO, do I really need to make you a list? There's plenty.
Quote:

Originally Posted by test user

I dunno what your point is, but you can't say the 25 - 45 cm/360 Ino suggested could in your usual FPS game be considered high sensitivities. You can't put those in the same group with those that use under 10 cm/360.

29 - 41 cm/360 (e.g. 2.5 - 3.5, 400 dpi, 6 window bars equivalent) is considered to be high competitively in Counter-Strike. In general it is recommended to use anywhere between 29 - 69 cm/360 (e.g. 1.5 - 3.5, 400 dpi, 6 window bars equivalent) for this game if you want to have good aim. So to make this easy for you to understand, 10 cm/360 is not a high sensitivity, it is a ridiculously high sensitivity, it is overkill and unnecessary and most commonly used by pub players or players who don't take the game seriously at all whatsoever and more than likely have rubbish aim and use a tiny mousepad from walmart.

So when I say 29 - 69 cm/360, 29 is on the higher end of, 69 is on the lower end, hence being considered high/medium/low by the CS community since those are the recommended settings for competitive play, I did say all of this was subjective.

 

[CtrlAltel1te]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axaion

That is just absurdly low, any accel used?, lol - sorry i did mean pro gamers though. since thats what hes referring to i guess

No no accel used. Pro gamers???
(its my own dpi/sens)

 

[Axaion]

Yeah, actually make me a list with source included, that would be nice indeed.

ctrl, its what superior was talking about, so yeah

I havent followed the cs:go scene, since the game itself is worse than 1.6 in all ways cept for graphics, and valve havent fixed it yet, maybe i will once they do.

 

[Axaion]

Yeah, actually make me a list with source included, that would be nice indeed.

ctrl, its what superior was talking about, so yeah

I havent followed the cs:go scene, since the game itself is worse than 1.6 in all ways cept for graphics, and valve havent fixed it yet, maybe i will once they do.