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lololol
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Discussion Starter #1
hopefully this thread doesn't get deleted for leaking too many of logitech's secrets <img alt="biggrin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif">. oh well i'll back up all the information in here just in case<br><br>
anyway i've been reverse engineering the 3366 to make my own mouse. plan is to make my own pcb and firmware and then stick it in a mouse that's reasonably shaped. why not just g502/303 pcb and frankenmouse? because that's boring<br><br>
here's a dump of most of the stuff i've figured out<br><br>
? means i'm unsure<br>
?? means i'm really unsure<br><br><b>3366 pinout</b><br><div class="bbcode_code">
<div class="bbcode_code_head">Code:</div>
<pre>
<code>MOT 1
16 GND
SCLK 2
15 3.3V VDDIO?? directly connected to mcu (for g303)
MOSI 3
14 clock tuning square wave output
MISO 4
13 3.3V VDD
NCS 5
12 2.02V led power?
NC 6
11 1.68V internal regulator output?
LED 7
10 -LED (not connected to any trace on g303)
NC 8
9 NC</code>
</pre></div>
<br><b>g502 fpc connector pinout</b><br><br>
1 to 14 from left to right<br><div class="bbcode_code">
<div class="bbcode_code_head">Code:</div>
<pre>
<code>1 GND
2 3.3V LED something?, mcu output
3 GND
4 NCS
5 MISO (40k pullup input for mcu)
6 MOSI
7 SCLK
8 MOT
9 3.3V Vdd
10 connected to sensor pin 14 (clock tuning), 40k pullup input for mcu
11 3.3V Vdd
12 3.3V, connected to sensor pin 15 (VDDIO??), sensor board input, on g502 rises to 3.3V exactly as Vdd rises, but not shorted to Vdd
13 3.3V, sensor board output
14 3.3V, sensor board output</code>
</pre></div>
<br><b>g303 pcb pictures</b><br>
sensor, mcu, and some silkscreen removed to uncover traces<br><br>
top:<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2493030/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="2493030" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2493030/flags/LL" style="; width: 2473px; height: 1485px"></a><br>
bottom (flipped to align with top image):<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2493031/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="2493031" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2493031/flags/LL" style="; width: 2473px; height: 1485px"></a><br><br><b>sensor pixel array</b><br><img alt="6e975c08_ZD4DKQ6.png" class="bbcode_img" src="http://cdn.overclock.net/6/6e/6e975c08_ZD4DKQ6.png" style="width:341px;height:544px;"><br><br>
40x40 pixels<br>
estimated spacing between each pixel is 30.8 +- 1um<br><br>
the sensor only uses 36x36 pixels though (see frame capture section below)<br><br>
see post 105. the resolution of the imaged area is 800/inch. so the magnification of the lens is 1x. so the area of the mousepad the pixel array uses is 36/800 = 0.045in = 1.143mm<br><br><b>spi protocol</b><br>
list of registers (functionality of most of them are unknown <img alt="tongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif">):<br>
<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dReGd09oq9VszvLSRh9nFZWW4f2LvZZUsj5OZ8EBYqU/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dReGd09oq9VszvLSRh9nFZWW4f2LvZZUsj5OZ8EBYqU/edit?usp=sharing</a><br><br><i>power up procedure:</i><br>
g502 (annotated): <a href="http://pastebin.com/TQmL6wA3" target="_blank">http://pastebin.com/TQmL6wA3</a><br>
g303: <a href="http://pastebin.com/DH4K3Ege" target="_blank">http://pastebin.com/DH4K3Ege</a><br>
they're identical except srom<br><br>
a lot of stuff is similar to that of 9800.<br><br><i>motion burst read:</i><br>
exact same procedure as 9800 but without the frame period bytes. see end of power up procedure for timings. the g502 and g303 do this once every 1ms, exactly synchronized to usb polling<br><br><i>cpi switching:</i><br>
write 0x?? to register 0x0f.<br>
the new cpi is (0x?? + 1) * 50<br>
range is 50 (0x00) to 12800 (0xff). the 200-12000 limitation for logitech's 3366 mice are just a "software" limitation<br><br><i>angle snapping:</i><br>
on:<br>
write 0x80 to register 0x42<br>
off:<br>
write 0x00 to register 0x42<br><br><i>surface tuning:</i><br>
default:<br>
write 0x0a to register 0x2c<br>
write 0x10 to register 0x2b<br>
g440 preset in lgs:<br>
write 0x34 to register 0x2c<br>
write 0xe5 to register 0x2b<br>
g240 preset in lgs:<br>
write 0x1f to register 0x2c<br>
write 0xd8 to register 0x2b<br><br><i>frame capture:</i><br>
aka using mouse sensor as a camera<br>
exactly same protocol as frame capture section in 9800 datasheet, except you read 1296 bytes and every byte you read after that is the same as the 1296th byte. 1296 = 36*36 which means the sensor only actually uses 36x36 pixels<br>
see post 67 for pictures<br><br><i>clock tuning:</i><br>
registers 0x3d and 0x4f control the clock frequency of the sensor in run and rest mode, respectively<br>
toggling on the msb of one of the registers (e.g. writing 0x96) causes the 3366's pin 14 to output a square wave with frequency related to the bottom 5,6,or 7 (not sure) bits of the register (see second sheet of the google doc above). the g502 adjusts the value of the register until the square wave frequency is as close to 1000hz as possible. usually the adjustment is quite coarse and the final values are off by 20hz or so. to disable the square wave toggle off the msb of whichever register had it on. changing the register's lower bits while the msb is 0 doesn't do anything.<br><br><b>SROM dumps</b><br>
version 0x07 (g502, firmware 88.2.16): <a href="http://pastebin.com/9tXC0XhF" target="_blank">http://pastebin.com/9tXC0XhF</a><br>
version 0x08 (g303, firmware 95.1.24): <a href="http://pastebin.com/ZJQ2HjZj" target="_blank">http://pastebin.com/ZJQ2HjZj</a><br>
version 0x09 (g303, firmware 95.2.26, g502 firmware 88.2.17): <a href="http://pastebin.com/WsLCeCdE" target="_blank">http://pastebin.com/WsLCeCdE</a><br>
unless someone figures out how to understand these, the only interesting thing is that they're 4KB
 

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- Insanity Beckons -
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Dear Sir,<br><br>
Please do whatever you like because it's your bought product and you can cut it or dice it anyway you like.<br><br>
Logicrap and suck my royal ghoolies if they think they could do anything to stop you from doing this sort of thing <img alt="sneaky.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/sneaky.gif"> .<br><br>
Besides it's nice to see a real go-getter making a better product than what Logicrap failed to produce in the first place. All you are doing is fixing their abortive attempts at selling garbage to the public, which they shouldn't of.<br><br>
More power to you <img alt="specool.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/specool.gif"> .
 

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Then there is myself that have a logitech webcam, keyboard, and mouse - no complaints <img alt="biggrin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
But is my tech new, no not really - run of the mill stuff.<br><br>
Its like corsair, i will not touch at all.<br><br>
It seems to me, that companies such as mentioned were good, in fact really good yrs ago. And now whether it be greed, austerity...... Quality control, materials used, many now suck <img alt="thumb.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif">
 

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OCN is bad civilization
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Don't see why would Logitech or PixArt do anything about it. Not like he's trying to replicate their design for profit or anything. If he's researching tech to make a mouse for him self - there's no problem.<br><br>
But hey, we'll find out soon enough.<br><br>
Edit: And it's more of a "compiling a rough datasheet from w/e scraps I salvaged" type.
 

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they will do when I grass him up <img alt="biggrin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
ring ring - Mr Logi ........
 

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lololol
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Discussion Starter #7
yea but that's kind of overkill...<br><br>
just added the SROM to the op. only interesting thing is that it's 4KB. (for comparison 9800 was 3KB)<br>
it's obtained by recording the powerup sequence on my oscilloscope and using a little program to process the data
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/0_20#post_24067966" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>qsxcv</strong> <a href="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/0_20#post_24067966"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
just added the SROM to the op. only interesting thing is that it's 4KB. (for comparison 9800 was 3KB)<br>
it's obtained by recording the powerup sequence on my oscilloscope and using a little program to process the data</div>
</div>
<br>
Eventually G303 owners will have a custom SROM?
 

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lololol
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Discussion Starter #9
i dont think anyone who doesn't work for a mouse-related company knows how to (meaningfully) edit the srom
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/0_20#post_24068092" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>qsxcv</strong> <a href="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/0_20#post_24068092"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
i dont think anyone who doesn't work for a mouse-related company knows how to (meaningfully) edit the srom</div>
</div>
<br>
There might be some ways... <img alt="wink.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/wink.gif"><br><br>
I rather have Logitech offer an optional SROM instead of people having to be sneaking/creative.
 

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lololol
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Discussion Starter #11
but to do what?<br>
i'm pretty sure stuff like framerate is configurable over spi by the microcontroller. at least it was for previous pixart/avago sensors
 

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lololol
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Discussion Starter #12
<a href="https://www.adafruit.com/products/1325" target="_blank">https://www.adafruit.com/products/1325</a><br>
+<br>
<a href="http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/609-4309-1-ND" target="_blank">http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/609-4309-1-ND</a><br>
+<br>
<a href="http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/732-3559-ND" target="_blank">http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/732-3559-ND</a><br>
+<br>
lots of solder wick<br>
+<br>
some headers<br>
=<br><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2495924/"><img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="2495924" data-type="61" src="http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2495924/flags/LL" style="; width: 3718px; height: 2092px"></a><br>
(ignore top part of breadboard)<br><br>
i'm very close to running the 3366 sensor board off my teensy now... just need to do some probing around to see which pins on the fpc connector are inputs/outputs
 

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lololol
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Discussion Starter #14
yea until logitech sues you <img alt="biggrin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif">
 

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isnt the Sensor going to be open anyway this year?
 

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lololol
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Discussion Starter #16
well i found this post by woll3 when searching about the 3320<br>
<a href="http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/eingabegeraete-und-peripherie/382727-logitech-g502-oder-g302-2.html#post7306148" target="_blank">http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/eingabegeraete-und-peripherie/382727-logitech-g502-oder-g302-2.html#post7306148</a><br><br>
public 3366 could be downgraded <img alt="tongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif"><br><br>
and i hope they release a real datasheet unlike the 3 page thing for the 3310
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/0_20#post_24072065" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>qsxcv</strong> <a href="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/0_20#post_24072065"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
well i found this post by woll3 when searching about the 3320<br>
<a href="http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/eingabegeraete-und-peripherie/382727-logitech-g502-oder-g302-2.html#post7306148" target="_blank">http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/eingabegeraete-und-peripherie/382727-logitech-g502-oder-g302-2.html#post7306148</a><br><br>
public 3366 could be downgraded <img alt="tongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif"><br><br>
and i hope they release a real datasheet unlike the 3 page thing for the 3310</div>
</div>
<br>
Hardware would be the same, but code could be original/old.
 

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AAGGHH~ MY EYES~ AAGGHH~
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Once again I am reminded of the sheer laziness of Pixart. Gotta love the monopoly they have going.<br><br>
I sometimes wonder if Razer had to grease Avago's hands with even more money to get the NDC firmware for the deathadder back in the day. Especially now that I know the Copperhead's 6.21NDC firmware has disappeared off the internet.<br><br>
Anyway, nice to see progress pics. It's a pipe dream at this point to have that sensor connected to something else. But it's still fun to think about.
 

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Mehehe!
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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/10#post_24071932" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>qsxcv</strong> <a href="/t/1561041/reverse-engineering-3366/10#post_24071932"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
yea until logitech sues you <img alt="biggrin.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.overclock.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"></div>
</div>
<br>
Well to be fair, you would still have to buy a G502.<br><br>
If anything it's a subtle hint to Logitech to rethink their shapes. The problem with their shapes is rather simple: "Hate" or "Love".<br><br>
Some other shapes from other brands can be "in between". Or "good enough", ... anyways you get the point.
 
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lololol
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Discussion Starter #20
so what mouse shell should i stick the thing in?<br>
im looking for something similar to g100s with a 9800/9500sensor (since 3366 has same lens alignment grooves)<br><br>
i got a evga torq x5l but it's kinda cramped
 
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