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Discussion Starter #1
Hello guys.
I'm am new here (As of time of post my account is 15 minutes old
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). So don't be harsh.

I am looking to phase out my old C2D/HD4850 build that's been having some issues lately. Namely the GPU and Mobo got fried up
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. After a lot (And I mean a lot) of research I lined it down to these components for the best 900eu PC I can get. Correct anything you thinks isn't the best choice at the pricepoint. I'm looking for the most PC I can get:

MSI GeForce GTX 760 2048Mb GDDR5
200eu
760 sports better benchmars than all other cards in it's price range and apparently the best 760 on the market if you forgo the Inno3d iChill Gtx760 is the MSI one. Can be SLI'ed up later for more GPU powah.

AMD Fx-8350 @ 4Ghz eight-core CPU
150eu
So my line of thought here was: Since the new consoles have Amd 8-cores and games are usually optimized for consoles an Amd 8-core should age better than an Intel 4-core that is also more expensive. Benchmark wise the 8350 beats most Intel cpu's including some of the higher end i7's but it's worse per-core architecture holds it back in current games that are optimized for Xbox360/PS3. And awesome price, cheaper that an Haswell i5k

Asus Sabertooth 990fx R2.0 AM3+ Mobo
150eu
Flat out best AM3+ mobo if we count out the *Crosshair V formula-z. I don't really like the colour scheme but performance wise it's top noch

Corsair Carbide 500r
85eu
I wanted to go for a Haf 922 but the full black interior on the 500r+The better airflow got me sold.

Corsair Hydro Series H100i Closed-loop Watercooling System
85eu
I'm looking to get a decent overclock out of my 8350 like 4.7+Ghz so the H100i is my choice for cooling. I was originally set to go for the H80i but after a lot of reading I think I'll go for the H100i.

Crucial M500 120GB SATA 2.5-Inch 7mm (with 9.5mm adapter) Solid State Drive
80eu
Cheap SSD. Nugh said.

Corsair Enthusiast Series TX 750 Watt ATX/EPS Modular 80 PLUS Bronze (Although I'd preffer another 750W modular PSU)
75eu
Not really much to say here. Reliable PSU with 85%+ efficiency. Being modular is a must. Although PSU is still up for thinking.

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1600Mhz (PC3 12800) Model 997046
60eu
Had a lot of trouble choosing RAM. I wanted an 8Gb kit but the performance differences between the different kits are really slight. It seems G-skill is having a great time but I really don't like the cheapish look of their DIMM's so that leaves Corsair/Mushkin/Crucial/Patriot I wanted the Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer but after hearing some bad things about their cooler and thinking about the overclock I could do in the Mushkin's I put the Mushkin on my list due to the tight timings and the great overclocking headroom with the Ridgeback cooler (Most other kits at this pricepoint had 9-9-9-24 while this is 8-8-8-24) Also they look great.


Total: 885eu

I might have made a crucial error about hardware combatibility so call me an idiot and point to it if I did. I just checked for each part invidually and I believe the rig is on the good side of things.
If you think that I can get any more PC in this price range please say so. I can only afford to upgrade once every 5-6 years due to harsh economical circumstances so I want to get the best I can for my 900eu.

Sincerely
Panos
 

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Not a bad build, however:

- First and foremost, if budget is important, drop the FX-8350 down to an 8320. The 8320 is simply a lower-binned 8350 that can easily reach the 8350's level. 4.7+ GHz should still be reachable on a good 8320. Though you can still opt for the 8350 if that OC is really that important to you.

- The SSD is okay, but why not get a Kingston HyperX or a Samsung 840 Pro instead? I can understand the SSD not being of extreme importance to you, but with the savings you get from going from 8350 to 8320, theres no reason to cheap out on the SSD any longer.

What resolution will you be gaming at?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Would I be getting a sizeable advantage with using a higher end ssd and a lower end CPU? How I see it its better to get an 8350 and push it to its overclocking limits that should be (Should they?) higher than the 8320. The 20 eu difference between the two is not all that big anyways. I can go a few euros overboard for a good advantage in performance but from my research I think that to get significantly more performance I'd need to go like 75+eu overboard.

I will be using my pc at the normal 1080 resolution.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

Would I be getting a sizeable advantage with using a higher end ssd and a lower end CPU? How I see it its better to get an 8350 and push it to its overclocking limits that should be (Should they?) higher than the 8320. The 20 eu difference between the two is not all that big anyways. I can go a few euros overboard for a good advantage in performance but from my research I think that to get significantly more performance I'd need to go like 75+eu overboard.

I will be using my pc at the normal 1080 resolution.
It's very dependant on a few things.

An upgraded SSD is a guaranteed upgrade. If you can get the 8350 and a Samsung 840 Pro 128 GB, then I suggest you do that. I do not think you'll be going 75+ EU overboard, but I dont exactly know prices in your country; so research the parts.

While you are right in saying that an 8350's overclocking limits should be higher than an 8320's limits, there is no way you'll reach the 8350s or even the 8320's overclocking limits with an H100i. You must go custom loop if you really want to get it's absolute limit. Within reason, and even then, it hasnt reached its limit unless you see using LN2 on a daily basis as "reasonable."

If you're just going to be gaming, an 8320 is fine and while there will be benefit from going for an 8350, you will not hit either chip's limit with your current cooling solution.

Both are great choices, but again, I reccomend looking into an 8350+840 Pro combo, and if you cannot afford that, I reccomend going 8320+840 Pro.
 

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Looks like a pretty decent build to me, but I don't know if you were planning on getting a high oc on that 8350, if you were this might not be the best time because both the 9590 and the 9370 are binning 8350's to get that performance. So the best ones are probably gone, but thats just my assumption.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the info guys. Ill look into the 840 pro + 8350 I guess I have the bucks to spare. I'm not looking to hit the chip's limits with the H100i (Ffs) I just meant that the OC performace of the 8350 should be higher than the 8320 although they are essentially the same chip. I don't know if the same thing happens with the 9*** series and sadly what Gilles said could be true (Although I doubt you could hit 5ghz on the power-hungry 8350 with a stock cooler I really don't get the whole idea behind the 9*** series) I'm really just messing here and there to see whats the best I can get for a budget and it seemed this was a nice rig. Revisions pending. Might even go Intel as some suggested over at the RoG boards.
 

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I also recommend bumping the SSD up to the 840 Pro, you will not be disappointed with the performance, and the Samsung reliability thus far on the Pro series has been fantastic. Samsung manufacturers their own NAND, their own controller, the PCB, and the firmware themselves - I believe it makes for tighter quality control overall, and better accountability.

Regarding the 8350 vs. 8320 - take this with a grain of salt. The 8320's ARE 8350's that didn't pass AMD's rigorous testing and qualification processes to be labeled as a 8350. They might OC to the same level, they might not. AMD didn't set out to make 8320's that day --- they were all made to be 8350s and some failed in some way and were down-clocked to be 8320s.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What I am wondering is IF the 9*** series ARE 8350's that performed well in AMD's tests. This would mean that all the good 8350's are gone to be made into 9350's or whatever.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

What I am wondering is IF the 9*** series ARE 8350's that performed well in AMD's tests. This would mean that all the good 8350's are gone to be made into 9350's or whatever.
One of the posters who stated that "all the good 8350s are gone" didnt exactly understand binning as a whole.

The 9xxx series are the highest binned chips that come out as 4 FX-module outfitted CPUs.

Older 8350s made significantly before the 9xxx series' existence were the top of the binning, if you could get ahold of a store-bought 8350 that has been sitting around significantly before the 9xxxx series was made, this would be your best option.

No longer does Global Foundries "set out to make 8350s", they now set out to make 9xxx series chips, and take only the very, very top chips to be resold as 9xxxx series chips. Current 8350s are still great chips, as are 8320s.

In your situation where you'll only be using an H100i, any of the CPUs will work just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
But whats the construction difference between the 9*** series and the 8*** series? Are they the same chips differently clocked or are they different chips altogether?
 

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Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

But whats the construction difference between the 9*** series and the 8*** series? Are they the same chips differently clocked or are they different chips altogether?
They are identical chips, one is simply binned higher than the other.

Is it the concept of binning you are not familiar with?
 

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The PSU is way overkill even with two GTX 760 cards its way overkill

Spend the same amount on a better lower wattage unit
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by elemein View Post

They are identical chips, one is simply binned higher than the other.

Is it the concept of binning you are not familiar with?
So in fact the new 8350's will be defective 9*** chips that didn't manage to reach stability in target frequences while up-to-now 8350's were in the top of the hill... Sad
And then they sell the good chip for like 500 more....
Quote:
Originally Posted by shilka View Post

The PSU is way overkill even with two GTX 760 cards its way overkill

Spend the same amount on a better lower wattage unit
I plan to OC the 8350. Dat is one power hungry chip.
The 8350 is 125 watts at stock settings. Thats pretty absurd for a CPU messing with voltages can push it into the 200+ watt range. I wanna be safe with it.
May still be an overkill though.... CALCULATOR
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

So in fact the new 8350's will be defective 9*** chips that didn't manage to reach stability in target frequences while up-to-now 8350's were in the top of the hill... Sad
And then they sell the good chip for like 500 more....
I plan to OC the 8350. Dat is one power hungry chip.
The 8350 is 125 watts at stock settings. Thats pretty absurd for a CPU messing with voltages can push it into the 200+ watt range. I wanna be safe with it.
May still be an overkill though.... CALCULATOR
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

So in fact the new 8350's will be defective 9*** chips that didn't manage to reach stability in target frequences while up-to-now 8350's were in the top of the hill... Sad
And then they sell the good chip for like 500 more....
I plan to OC the 8350. Dat is one power hungry chip.
The 8350 is 125 watts at stock settings. Thats pretty absurd for a CPU messing with voltages can push it into the 200+ watt range. I wanna be safe with it.
May still be an overkill though.... CALCULATOR
Yes you're more or less right, but "defective" is a bit of a harsh word to use when it still reached an extremely respectable level of performance (as an 8350). Though yes, the 9xxx series are sold for absurdedly more. Intel does a similar practice with many of their products (basically, all of them except Atom's and desktop consumer CPUs)

The 8350 is indeed a heat and power monster.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
But since the way the chips are made isnt change the average performance of the chips is the same while there is another virtual scale of performance to cope with. What I mean is that in order to make a lot of 9*** series chips AMD will need to make less 8*** series chips or lower the effectiveness of 8*** series chips if we assume the construction method of the chips hasnt been refined to yield better chips in general (As in more stable). Essentially now the top end chips get made into 9*** instead of 8*** while their performance remains essentially the same if you forgo the factory overclock (Which is something anyone can do with a decent cooler)

Edit: Let me rephrase
Before 9*** all chips that were stable at 4Ghz were made into 8350's
After 9*** all chips that are stable at 4Ghz are made into 8350s and then the best of the 8350's are made into 9350 or whatever. Therefore the average performance of the 8350CPU goes down as you can't get s "Very good chip"

Generally you want to be in around 85% of your psu max wattage for maximum efficiency that leaves around 600 watts for load usage. 160 watts for the 760 and around 180-200 for the Fx8350 makes 360 watts. Add another 6 HDDs (Yes I said 6) and I think its goes to around 550 watts leaving a healthy amound for a second gtx760 and still maintaining good efficiency and a few watts to pour to your CPU for more OC'ing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

But since the way the chips are made isnt change the average performance of the chips is the same while there is another virtual scale of performance to cope with. What I mean is that in order to make a lot of 9*** series chips AMD will need to make less 8*** series chips or lower the effectiveness of 8*** series chips if we assume the construction method of the chips hasnt been refined to yield better chips in general (As in more stable). Essentially now the top end chips get made into 9*** instead of 8*** while their performance remains essentially the same if you forgo the factory overclock (Which is something anyone can do with a decent cooler)

Generally you want to be in around 85% of your psu max wattage for maximum efficiency that leaves around 600 watts for load usage. 160 watts for the 760 and around 180-200 for the Fx8350 makes 360 watts. Add another 6 HDDs (Yes I said 6) and I think its goes to around 550 watts leaving a healthy amound for a second gtx760 and still maintaining good efficiency and a few watts to pour to your CPU for more OC'ing.
A HDD dont use more then 10 watts if its even that much

Thats a power draw around 450-500 watts total if its even that high
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So if I add another gtx 760 i get to 660 watt and you propose that I get a 650 watt psu. I just want to have some breathing room even with the addition of the second card.

Edit: Dont get me wrong I apreciate your advice I just can't see a big enough price difference between 650w and 750w to justify going for the 650w when I can use the 750w.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

So if I add another gtx 760 i get to 660 watt and you propose that I get a 650 watt psu. I just want to have some breathing room even with the addition of the second card.
TDP is not real world power draws they are max power draws

750 watts sould cover ANY system with two video cards in it you dont need more then that

But the point was dont get a Corsair TX750 when you can get some thats far better bang for buck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos Is View Post

But since the way the chips are made isnt change the average performance of the chips is the same while there is another virtual scale of performance to cope with. What I mean is that in order to make a lot of 9*** series chips AMD will need to make less 8*** series chips or lower the effectiveness of 8*** series chips if we assume the construction method of the chips hasnt been refined to yield better chips in general (As in more stable). Essentially now the top end chips get made into 9*** instead of 8*** while their performance remains essentially the same if you forgo the factory overclock (Which is something anyone can do with a decent cooler)

Edit: Let me rephrase
Before 9*** all chips that were stable at 4Ghz were made into 8350's
After 9*** all chips that are stable at 4Ghz are made into 8350s and then the best of the 8350's are made into 9350 or whatever. Therefore the average performance of the 8350CPU goes down as you can't get s "Very good chip"

Generally you want to be in around 85% of your psu max wattage for maximum efficiency that leaves around 600 watts for load usage. 160 watts for the 760 and around 180-200 for the Fx8350 makes 360 watts. Add another 6 HDDs (Yes I said 6) and I think its goes to around 550 watts leaving a healthy amound for a second gtx760 and still maintaining good efficiency and a few watts to pour to your CPU for more OC'ing.
No, not exactly. Plus 4 GHz is quite a low barrier; almost all 8320s can exceed that with even an H100i.

Believe it or not, there are few 9xxx chips floating around in comparison to the number of 83xxx chips. Think of it this way:
Old way: The top 50% of chips were labelled as 8350s while the bottom performing 50% were labelled as 8320s (this is excluding the fact that 6300s, 6350s, 4350s, and 4300s were ALL CPUs that were originally set out to be made into 8350s, but had defective cores or caches.)
New way: The bottom 50% are 8320s, the second top 45% are 8350s and the very top 5% of chips are 9xxxx series.

So yes, the very cream of the crop were made into 9xxx chips now, which is why I said to get an older 8350 if possible, but that is NOT to say that there arent amazing 8xxx's out there.
 
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