[bloke226]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman23;13214432
None of it's true. Headphones do not change physically after the first few moments of operation.

Cool story, then my brain's perception changed of how they sound after so many hours.

 

[Iceman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloke226 Cool story, then my brain's perception changed of how they sound after so many hours.

Exactly.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman23 None of it's true. Headphones do not change physically after the first few moments of operation.

There's plenty of scientific proof for burn-in in dynamic transducer systems. Plenty.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...act-or-fiction

and my post here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...15#post6338400

Most speakers and headphones / earphones function in exactly the same way, that via a dynamic transducer circuit.

 

[Iceman23]

Notice I said headphones. Speakers do take longer because of the size of the driver and the materials used. But CERTAINLY NOT 300 hours. Now, the greatest change in sound you will get out a new headphones is in fact the way the pads compress and change shape (I don't consider this burn-in). This had a FAR greater impact in sound. Just like listening to a speaker and moving your head a few inches, you will fundamentally change the frequency response you hear. And, in any case, the way your brain adjusts to a change in sound signature is also has a FAR greater effect than so called burn in.

 

[chinesekiwi]

depends on the headphone circuit, Yes, the shape of the pads and the angle of the headphones on the head will affect the frequency response of the headphones, however it will not affect the sound fidelity of the headphone. I agree that burn-in is often overstated however. I've found that for headphones, it's normally the most difference within 50 hours and in-ears about the first 20 hours with the effect depreciating in time to effect ratio after that. (Of course smaller circuit = less mass moving = less burn-in time required).

Accommodation (your brain adjusting) can only account for ever so much. I've listened to headphones and in-ears of all different sound signatures so I know how accommodation works. Burn-in exists and it more than noticeable to everyone, not just 'audiophiles'.

 

[Iceman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi depends on the headphone circuit, Yes, the shape of the pads and the angle of the headphones on the head will affect the frequency response of the headphones, however it will not affect the sound fidelity of the headphone. I agree that burn-in is often overstated however. I've found that for headphones, it's normally the most difference within 50 hours and in-ears about the first 20 hours with the effect depreciating in time to effect ratio after that. (Of course smaller circuit = less mass moving = less burn-in time required). Accommodation (your brain adjusting) can only account for ever so much. I've listened to headphones and in-ears of all different sound signatures so I know how accommodation works. Burn-in exists and it more than noticeable to everyone, not just 'audiophiles'.

So you're telling me you can hear MORE details after burn in?

Then you would be making the contention that the driver's physical capabilities are drastically changed. Show me a scientific test done on headphone drivers (not speaker drivers), under controlled conditions (same temperature etc.), and most importantly, measurement of frequency response done in exactly the same way/same spot each time that supports your theory. But then are we acutally measuring burn-in or simply the change that occurs during the time the driver reaches operating temperature (which admittedly should not be very long for a headphone driver)?

 

[Simca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman23 So you're telling me you can hear MORE details after burn in? Then you would be making the contention that the driver's physical capabilities are drastically changed. Show me a scientific test done on headphone drivers (not speaker drivers), under controlled conditions (same temperature etc.), and most importantly, measurement of frequency response done in exactly the same way/same spot each time that supports your theory. But then are we acutally measuring burn-in or simply the change that occurs during the time the driver reaches operating temperature (which admittedly should not be very long for a headphone driver)?

I'm not gonna' bother looking for whatever evidence you're looking for, but pretty much every audiophile notices burn in improvement with new headphones of good quality.

 

[chinesekiwi]

...

 

[chinesekiwi]

There's little point in doing that as dynamic transducer / moving coil / electrodynamic (all the same thing, different names) headphones function exactly the same way (click on page 312) as a speaker using the same exact system. the speaker measurements are objective and take any sort of subjective-ness out of the equation. Burn-in is the physical change in the driver. You are actually making the moving coil driver worse to make it sound better.

 

[Iceman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simca I'm not gonna' bother looking for whatever evidence you're looking for, but pretty much every audiophile notices burn in improvement with new headphones of good quality.

Of course you won't bother, I guarantee it will be hard to find, and for good reason. Not every audiophile notices it, it has simply become a common misconception that is transferred to any differences a listener might expereince when evaluating a new headphone. Like I said earlier, these differences can easily be attributed to changes in the headphone pads and psychoacoustics. Every time someone says "harsh treble that got better with burn in" SCREAMS psychoacoustics to me.

 

[chinesekiwi]

headphones pads / acoustic dampening (really tbh, serve the same purpose) does not account for burn-in in dynamic transducer in-ears, which totally eliminate the outer pinna thus headphones pads and the psychoacoustic effects of the pinna and head. the only factor is the placement of eartips within the earcanal (and earwax buildup) but really that can be easily notice via comfort issues / differences.

However the broader definition of burn-in as a change in earpad density can still be qualified as 'burn-in' in a sense because it's a change in state from the original. Also for it to be psychoacoustic such as a change in earpads / head positioning, one would have to notice the 'burn-in' every single time they put the headphone on, which just simply doesn't occur. There is no doubt that some claims of burn-in are due to other factors but to say all of them are is a stretch.

 

[Iceman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi headphones pads / acoustic dampening (really tbh, serve the same purpose) does not account for burn-in in dynamic transducer in-ears, which totally eliminate the outer pinna thus headphones pads and the psychoacoustic effects of the pinna and head. the only factor is the placement of eartips within the earcanal but really that can be easily notice via comfort issues / differences.

Moving the IE driver a millimeter within the ear canal will have a FAR FAR greater effect on the response you hear than any type of so called burn in.

 

[Iceman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi However the broader definition of burn-in as a change in earpad density can still be qualified as 'burn-in' in a sense because it's a change in state from the original. Also for it to be psychoacoustic such as a change in earpads / head positioning, one would have to notice the 'burn-in' every single time they put the headphone on, which just simply doesn't occur. There is no doubt that some claims of burn-in are due to other factors but to say all of them are is a stretch.

But pads have nothing to do with the mechanical properties of the headphone driver itself - you would do just as well wearing them as earmuffs as opposed to listening to music to break them in: does anyone do that?

The fact that we don't notice burn in every time is further proof that changes are either not audible or a figure of the imagination. Headphones (speakers to a much greater extent) take a certain amount of time to reach operational temperature - why do we not hear this change every time we listen (or see it reported)?

As I have said before I wholeheartedly agree that burn-in, in the sense of phyiscal/mechanical changes in the driver does happen. But can this change alter a listeners complete perception of it's sound? Not likely. Does it take 300 hours of dedicated pink noise? Hell no.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman23 Moving the IE driver a millimeter within the ear canal will have a FAR FAR greater effect on the response you hear than any type of so called burn in.

only to the point where comfort issues will be noticeable:

http://goldenears.net/board/?mid=ST_...ment_srl=23143

Damn Google translate, y u no good translation of Korean because that website is a goldmine of info.

 

[Iceman23]

Wish I could read it, looks interesting

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman23 Wish I could read it, looks interesting

Google translate it

Chrome has a popup when does Google translate within the browser. you can set it so it translate all websites that have the language. The graphs are easy to interpret though.

 

[wongster]

More updated impressions:

There's no doubt about it; I really like these headphones. They feel more comfortable than my RX700s, they definitely sound better, and they continue to make music fun to listen to (just like the RX700s). Contrary to what I posted before, I now know what good sound stage should sound like, as well as what musical separation means. I've been listening to a somewhat muddied, veiled version of music.

The great thing is that I'm not even trying to find these differences anymore; they just make themselves obvious. In the beginning I was trying hard to look for differences between the PRO550 and RX700. I was being a bit overly analytical and was disappointed when I didn't perceive a huge difference. Eventually, I just decided to put on the PRO550s and listen to them for a long time (not burn-in long time, more like a few hours). Once in a while, it would hit me that a particular song sounded fuller; I could effortlessly hear details that I never really paid attention to because they were veiled and meshed into the background. At those instances, I would switch the headphones and listen to the song again through my old 'phones. Quite a noticeable difference!

I'm also happy about the bass in this headphone. It's weird to me to not have bass in music that incorporates it. It's what makes me bob my head and adds a fun factor.

The only knock I have against the PRO550s: the coiled cable they give you is annoying (and it's not that long). The straight cable they give you is like a yard long. I mean I know it's meant for MP3 players, but really? My RX700 has more than enough cable to travel from the back of the computer, around the desk, and still have slack to sit on the floor after I put it on my head.

I was really considering returning these headphones after the first hour of use. No longer the case.

 

[RallyMaster]

Alright, I seem to have a 4 month update for you guys. Please see the original post for full details but it goes like this:

I've been debating getting some better pads or even getting an Ultrasone PRO900 for quite some time but was never able to justify the cost and couldn't ignore the fact that I actually like these headphones.

Last week I finally decided that I really don't need new headphones just yet so...this is the result:


Click the image to see the first post.

 

[Deverica Wolf]

Rally, have you found a difference using the 750 pads yet? I haven't found the 550 pads to be uncomfortable or warm but those gray pads are super sexy and completely change the look. I really like these headphones...would they be a good investment?

 

[RallyMaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deverica Wolf;15602569
Rally, have you found a difference using the 750 pads yet? I haven't found the 550 pads to be uncomfortable or warm but those gray pads are super sexy and completely change the look. I really like these headphones...would they be a good investment?

They're really nice pads. They're more comfortable than the stock pads and don't change the sound signature much at all. I don't think they sell these any more though since all the ones I see now on Ultrasone's online store are black.