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Waiting for 7nm EUV
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Discussion Starter #1
As much fun as we have with our virtual bank-heists, car-chases and random muggings, music licensing seems like a far more lucrative racket. Due to expensive, time-limited music licenses expiring, Grand Theft Auto IV developers Rockstar were recently faced with either pulling the game from sale, paying for a license renewal, or removing a good chunk of its famed soundtrack. Today, a small patch rolled out across multiple platforms, removing the now-unlicensed music tracks and it looks like the damage done may be greater than expected.

Source.


This is one of the major things wrong with game services like Steam - there is no option to select updates to install, you only have three options, all involving installing all the updates at different times, but always prior to launching the game at any time.

This has got to stop, and it should also be outright illegal to remove songs from a game that you have already purchased.
 

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I beat GTA 4 last year (yea I was 10 years late) and I mostly listened to Vladivostok FM which apparently was the station hit the most.

The game will simply not be the same and I agree that removing songs from people who have bought the game already makes it worse.

Does this mean that people who had CD/DVD copies were better off?
 

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Robotic Chemist
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Signing temporary licensing deals for a game like this seems really weird to me. This had to have been planned before GTA IV even shipped.

"Updating" games to remove features is nasty, this trend of actually only getting a lease when clicking "buy" is very frustrating. There is an agreement that states they can do whatever they want but "buy" has a commonly understood definition whose meaning should be enforced. People who sell temporary software licenses should have to label the button "lease" or something instead. Just because software can be easily tied to an external control should not mean ownership is any less ownership. Right to repair and similar ownership concepts should cover software products too.
 

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Waiting for 7nm EUV
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I beat GTA 4 last year (yea I was 10 years late) and I mostly listened to Vladivostok FM which apparently was the station hit the most.

The game will simply not be the same and I agree that removing songs from people who have bought the game already makes it worse.

Does this mean that people who had CD/DVD copies were better off?

Yes, people who bought the DVD version of the game back then are much better off, Rockstar can't physically remove the songs from the game even if they wanted to. They should be sued for doing this, even more considering how much money they print with GTA V, this packing together of new sales with previous sales is absolutely the lowest effort result and it's completely inexcusable for a company like them. One thing is removing the songs for new purchases, another entirely different is removing it from games people bought years ago.

That's why I've been moving over to GOG (and changing developers I buy games from). Not only don't you have to use any client to download and update games, but even if you do use the client, you can choose to not update games. With no DRM the games are yours to keep, not being at the mercy of what the developer of the game feels like doing like these rubbish forced updates to remove stuff you already bought.

Steam looks great and convenient at first but any sense of actually having any power over anything is gone with actions like these. The word "Purchase" becomes meaningless. I sure hope that Valve takes a stand against this type of practice and do it yesterday.

This is not the game that I bought (and EFLC is probably also affected or will be, since it was released later, so the music licenses will probably expire later too).

In fact, without much of the music, it's only half of it. The music in that game made much of the atmosphere.
 

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The radio stations are half of the GTA games for me. Without them, it's nowhere near the same experience.
 

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Banned
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Source.


This is one of the major things wrong with game services like Steam - there is no option to select updates to install, you only have three options, all involving installing all the updates at different times, but always prior to launching the game at any time.

This has got to stop, and it should also be outright illegal to remove songs from a game that you have already purchased.
lol steam was used as a service to sell convenience which is digital. You never own the titles to begin with which is why they are putting everything on digital these days. You are the sole property of the corporations and they own you.
 

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WaterCooler
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Yes, people who bought the DVD version of the game back then are much better off, Rockstar can't physically remove the songs from the game even if they wanted to.
Sweet, I have an old copy on CD's or DVD's somewhere.

The radio stations are half of the GTA games for me. Without them, it's nowhere near the same experience.
Yep agreed.
 

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Never Finished
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I'm sure someone will release a "mod" to bring them back. Not a biggie.
 

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Fantastic Mr Fox
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lol steam was used as a service to sell convenience which is digital. You never own the titles to begin with which is why they are putting everything on digital these days. You are the sole property of the corporations and they own you.
From an "ownership" perspective there's no difference between a digital and a physical copy. In both cases you only have a license to use the software. Digital distribution just makes it easier for copyright owners to do what they want with their property.
 

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AMD Overclocker
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Sad, but not surprising.
 

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Pirates once again getting a superior product.
Pretty sure that won't be on for much longer either. We will be moving games through a decentralized sever because everyone will have always on internet connection. Pretty sure that streaming games will be the next big thing and that feat will be next to impossible to pirate.

From an "ownership" perspective there's no difference between a digital and a physical copy. In both cases you only have a license to use the software. Digital distribution just makes it easier for copyright owners to do what they want with their property.

The eula says otherwise and besides, they can change the terms of service when ever they want and most people won't read the whole thing because it's written in a way that any sane person couldn't understand. You saw the same thing with facebook. Do you really think that facebook is going to be scared by the senate hearing and stop what they are doing?
 

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Fantastic Mr Fox
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Do you really think that facebook is going to be scared by the senate hearing and stop what they are doing?
Of course not. At worst the hearing will result in complicated regulation that entrenches the existing social media oligopoly.
 

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Otherworlder
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i think the blame should be put on the music industry this time, to point out their "license" should've been an indefinite duration from the start.
 

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Fantastic Mr Fox
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i think the blame should be put on the music industry this time, to point out their "license" should've been an indefinite duration from the start.

The blame is shared. Rockstar agreed to a purchase a time limited license.
 

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Otherworlder
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The blame is shared. Rockstar agreed to a purchase a time limited license.
true, but i meant a time-limited license in this type of product shouldn't exist from the start.
 

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MegaTechPC
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I could understand removing the licensed tracks from new copies of the game being sold now, but I don't understand why they have to REMOVE the songs from copies of the game people bought when the licenses were in effect? Those songs were already bought and paid for by the purchaser so their removal from the game via a forced "update" seems tantamount to theft to me. I mean, imagine if when you buy music from digital services like Apple Music, for example, that they removed those songs/albums from your account if Apple ever lost the licensing deal for that music. That just doesn't make sense, YOU purchased the license for those songs from Apple (or in this case, Rockstar) so how can you have them stolen from you?

In the end it doesn't really affect me because I typically play GTA with the radio off but its still dirty as all get out...
 

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Just leave my precious Vice City alone...
 

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Just leave my precious Vice City alone...
If a time-limited license exists there too, then expect to see the same thing happen when it expires and the music industry gives them the same three options.

As someone else has already stated, a mod will most likely be released by the community to bring these back to the game. The modding community, arguably, yet as always, are the ones you can truly rely on.
 

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Fantastic Mr Fox
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I could understand removing the licensed tracks from new copies of the game being sold now, but I don't understand why they have to REMOVE the songs from copies of the game people bought when the licenses were in effect?

I can't imagine Rockstar actually wants to go out of their way to do this. Notwithstanding a contractual or legal requirement to do so, I'd say this is more a technical limitation than anything else. Steam doesn't have any way to do a "new purchases only" update. You push a new build and everyone gets it. I think the only way around this would have been to pull the game and relist it, but that would remove all of the existing reviews, discussions, etc.
 
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