Overclock.net banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Specifications – CPU and RAM are STOCK, (not overclocked)

MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI (Running latest BIOS)
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU
2x Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.35V – 32GB (2x16GB) – F4-3600C16-16GTZNC (64GB TOTAL)
EVGA GeForce GTX1080ti
Corsair AX1000 PSU

MY ISSUE
This has been occurring since I've put this PC together around 3 weeks ago. When idling or doing non-intensive CPU tasks, Windows will BSOD or just 'freeze'. BSODs range a lot, but the ones I have logged so far are – DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL, KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED, APC_INDEX_MISMATCH or SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION, all referencing ntoskrnl.exe.

When under load, like playing any sort of game, benchmarking etc the system is COMPLETELY stable. Not an issue, performance is great. I can play any game for hours on end and not have a problem.

This problem exists with XMP on or off on the RAM.

TROUBLESHOOTING STEPS
  1. At first I thought it was a RAM issue, ran MemTest86+ all night, no errors. I also ran the OCCT RAM stress tester for an hour, also absolutely no issues. I also manually increased the voltage on the RAM, did not solve the problem.
  2. Reset BIOS back to factory defaults, by pulling the battery. Also didn't work.
  3. Set the CPU voltage to 'Override' and manually set it to 1.4375v. BINGO, this solved the problem. Absolutely no crashes, no issues, 100% stable. I stayed like this for a few days to absolutely make sure it was stable. Absolutely 0 BSOD's.
  4. After establishing there were no more blue screens, I went back into the BIOS and set the CPU voltage back to AUTO. Freeze and BSOD city again when doing absolutely nothing (just browsing web pages etc).
  5. Thought, it may have something to do with the Ryzen power plans, changed from 'Balanced' to 'High Performance'. Still crashes.
It seems to me, that there could be some issue with the CPU under-volting itself too much while at idle, causing these crashes? Or the motherboard not regulating the CPU voltage properly, seeing as the crashes ONLY happen when idle, never under load.

If anyone has had this experience with X570 boards or this CPU or if anyone has any tips or suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it, as I'm stuck and not sure what the next steps to take are.

I have contacted MSI Support in Australia, who suggested taking the BIOS battery out, checking for viruses, finally suggested just swapping the CPU for another one. I find it hard to believe it's the CPU at fault, seeing as there are only issues while idling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
Just tried to increase LLC?
Typical power idle? (does your PSU support the LOW idle setting?)

You might have one of those "on the edge" stable Ryzen cpu, might warrant a replacement if contacting AMD if those doesn't fix it.

Try the "typical power idle" setting first. If it's a PSU that can't handle the low idle voltages.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Just tried to increase LLC?
Typical power idle? (does your PSU support the LOW idle setting?)

You might have one of those "on the edge" stable Ryzen cpu, might warrant a replacement if contacting AMD if those doesn't fix it.

Try the "typical power idle" setting first. If it's a PSU that can't handle the low idle voltages.
The typical power idle setting was set to AUTO, but I set it to TYPICAL POWER IDLE and it didn't solve the problem, it blue screened.
I didn't increase the LLC...

Looking around, it seems more and more like it might be that the CPU might be faulty. First time in 25 years of computing that I've come across a faulty CPU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
I also had only Idle crashes on my 3800x after switching to later BIOS version, especially. Optimization for Zen3 and Zen2 refresh must have messed up something for trash tier day 1 SKUs.

At some point i found a combination of undervolt + higher LLC setting that fixed the issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
I found a topic in the Asus threads about DF Cstates. Should be found under AMD_CBS set it to disabled, see if it helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
I've been having this exact same problem.
try deactivating C-States ... waking up from sleep to max boost state was crashing my PC in IDLE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Hey everyone I've made some progress with this issue, of my BSOD's and crashing at 100% stock.

I've established that the CPU at 100% 'BIOS Optimised' STOCK settings, fails stress testing in Prime95, one of the workers fail nearly immediately.

I did some playing around in the BIOS and found that this MSI motherboard has a 'GAME MODE' which, when enabled provides a +600mhz overclock. I had a look at the settings it changes -
  • CPU Ratio from AUTO > 42x
  • CPU Smart Fan Controls > DISABLED
  • PSS Support (Enable or Disable the generation of ACPI _PPC, _PPS and _PCT objects) ENABLED to DISABLED.
I had a look at what 'PSS' does and it's what MSI have renamed AMD Cool n Quiet.

After enabling 'GAME MODE' and having a full time overclock, the CPU is 100% stable in Windows, in stress testing and games and there is absolutely 0 issues. No random BSODs and blue screens.

I turned everything back to BIOS Optimised stock, and turned off PSS manually, but the BSOD issues still remained.

What I don't understand is, why is the CPU working fine OVERCLOCKED, at an overclocked clock of 4.2ghz, but not at it's base clock of 3.6ghz, all AUTO voltages, and BIOS defaults except for GAME MODE enabled. I'm beginning to think this isn't a CPU issue at all, but a motherboard one.





@manol which exact bios is this? have you tried the beta bios? older bios?
It's the latest BETA BIOS. I haven't tried the older BIOS.

I also had only Idle crashes on my 3800x after switching to later BIOS version, especially. Optimization for Zen3 and Zen2 refresh must have messed up something for trash tier day 1 SKUs.

At some point i found a combination of undervolt + higher LLC setting that fixed the issue.
Are you saying when you downgraded BIOS versions it was all stable? Or, are you saying, with the latest BETA BIOS, you found a combination of undervolting and a Higher LLC that made the system stable? I just don't accept that, that is a resolution for a brand new system. Everything should be 100% stable, at STOCK settings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Are you saying when you downgraded BIOS versions it was all stable? Or, are you saying, with the latest BETA BIOS, you found a combination of undervolting and a Higher LLC that made the system stable? I just don't accept that, that is a resolution for a brand new system. Everything should be 100% stable, at STOCK settings.
If you check the Motherboard sub-forum you will see that older BIOS versions had in fact less problems but ran the CPU at higher voltages. I cant look into the specifics obviously, just empirical proof...going up the BIOS ladder, more and more problems came up for Zen 2 CPU with bad binning (like mine).

Imho, it is unstable Cache related. You can force the problem pretty fast by using Karhu and activate the Cache stressing. Pretty sure there are also Tools you can use that are free, maybe someone else can recommend something.

You can at least test out F12 BIOS for your board, this seems to be one of the better versions for basic Zen2 CPUs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Hi guys, see my post here:


Reading the last few posts, seems MSI really needs to get their **** together with their BIOS updates. This should be an easy fix?

I am deactivating c-states now and will report back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Switching "Power Supply Idle Control" to "typical" seems to do the trick.

Of course that is not a long term solution I am happy with due to increased power draw, etc.

edit: Newest Bios and switching to 5800x has fixed the issue now. I think this was most likely the beta bios having issues with idle voltage of the older CPUs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Could anyone kindly post a screenshot showing where the "Power Supply Idle Control" to "typical" setting is?

I've been trawling through this **** show of a bios and I still can't find it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,076 Posts
Could anyone kindly post a screenshot showing where the "Power Supply Idle Control" to "typical" setting is?

I've been trawling through this **** show of a bios and I still can't find it.
I posted this in motherboard section

You can not find Power Supply Idle Control in your own BIOS. My question is did you look.
Advanced CPU Configuration/AMD CBS

I made a post about this for crash ,My advice return CPU,stop wasting time there is no real fix. You could also return MSI X570 Tomahawk ,that would take longer.

MSI X570 Tomahawk 3600XT/5800X work great 3800XT Crash on Idle/BIOS/Internet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Hey all, just wanted to give an update regarding this post. As soon as I could/it became available I purchased a new Ryzen 5600X.
I replaced the 3700X with the 5600X, reset the BIOS, didn't even install a clean, fresh version of Windows and literally every problem disappeared.

The CPU was faulty. Sent off for RMA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Hi all,

Specifications – CPU and RAM are STOCK, (not overclocked)

MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI (Running latest BIOS)
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU
2x Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.35V – 32GB (2x16GB) – F4-3600C16-16GTZNC (64GB TOTAL)
EVGA GeForce GTX1080ti
Corsair AX1000 PSU

MY ISSUE
This has been occurring since I've put this PC together around 3 weeks ago. When idling or doing non-intensive CPU tasks, Windows will BSOD or just 'freeze'. BSODs range a lot, but the ones I have logged so far are – DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL, KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED, APC_INDEX_MISMATCH or SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION, all referencing ntoskrnl.exe.

When under load, like playing any sort of game, benchmarking etc the system is COMPLETELY stable. Not an issue, performance is great. I can play any game for hours on end and not have a problem.

This problem exists with XMP on or off on the RAM.

TROUBLESHOOTING STEPS
  1. At first I thought it was a RAM issue, ran MemTest86+ all night, no errors. I also ran the OCCT RAM stress tester for an hour, also absolutely no issues. I also manually increased the voltage on the RAM, did not solve the problem.
  2. Reset BIOS back to factory defaults, by pulling the battery. Also didn't work.
  3. Set the CPU voltage to 'Override' and manually set it to 1.4375v. BINGO, this solved the problem. Absolutely no crashes, no issues, 100% stable. I stayed like this for a few days to absolutely make sure it was stable. Absolutely 0 BSOD's.
  4. After establishing there were no more blue screens, I went back into the BIOS and set the CPU voltage back to AUTO. Freeze and BSOD city again when doing absolutely nothing (just browsing web pages etc).
  5. Thought, it may have something to do with the Ryzen power plans, changed from 'Balanced' to 'High Performance'. Still crashes.
It seems to me, that there could be some issue with the CPU under-volting itself too much while at idle, causing these crashes? Or the motherboard not regulating the CPU voltage properly, seeing as the crashes ONLY happen when idle, never under load.

If anyone has had this experience with X570 boards or this CPU or if anyone has any tips or suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it, as I'm stuck and not sure what the next steps to take are.

I have contacted MSI Support in Australia, who suggested taking the BIOS battery out, checking for viruses, finally suggested just swapping the CPU for another one. I find it hard to believe it's the CPU at fault, seeing as there are only issues while idling.

If you see how many people are lurking the thread you know its not hardware.

Type winver into tge taskbar search, bet youre on 2004 or 20h2 (2009) version of windows.

It is borking a lot of ryzen users. You can increase stability by playing around with spread spectrum/HPET (bios and win)/c-states and get stable for a bit. I myself have a pc that exhibits crackling on audio randomly which is horrible for content creation.

I have just used RUFUS (program) to download a bootable 1909 ISO and will be rolling back. Micro$oft has really fkd up this time. Nvidia cards also have insane dpc latency spikes due to a power conflict in the standard drivers (ddu wipe and reinstall with dch is required to help a bit).

My dpc was consistently spiking to 5000 microseconds in games causing me to get killed and was making my sound card crackle.

Hope some of what i posted was helpful to you and others.

Btw if u do use rufus to roll back i highly suggest you use a win pro cd key so u can use gpedit (group policy) to change it so windows never updates. I honestly think pirates with cracked windows would be laughing at us right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I have the exact same issue. I have a Ryzen x3700 and a B450-i Rog strix. Strangely enough, it happens more often after I wake my PC up from sleep mode.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top