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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Astronomers have come across what appear to be two of the earliest and most primitive supermassive black holes known....


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"We have found what are likely first-generation quasars, born in a dust-free medium and at the earliest stages of evolution," said Linhua Jiang of the University of Arizona, Tucson. Jiang is the lead author of a paper announcing the findings in the March 18 issue of Nature.

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wow
 

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I wonder how many astronomers would sell their souls for a chance to get put into a relativistic spacecraft and watch those black holes develop before their eyes in a perfect timelapse.
 

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What would happen if a ship got sucked in? Another dimension or something?


The picture there looks pretty interesting though!
 

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Originally Posted by Hoodcom
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What would happen if a ship got sucked in? Another dimension or something?


The picture there looks pretty interesting though!

You'd die gruesomely, but it's possible your constituent atoms might emerge through a white hole into another universe.

Too bad we've never seen white holes. I wonder if that's what the Big Bang was? A simultaneous dump of the sum of all the energy that entered a black hole in a previous universe.
 

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Originally Posted by MrDeodorant
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You'd die gruesomely, but it's possible your constituent atoms might emerge through a white hole into another universe.

Too bad we've never seen white holes. I wonder if that's what the Big Bang was? A simultaneous dump of the sum of all the energy that entered a black hole in a previous universe.

Well, when ever we have space ships for every day use, I'll be sure to steer clear of any black holes.
lol

Though that's the first time I heard of a white hole, though.

I always was interested in space and what's in it, also I always wondered when we'd have space colonies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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Originally Posted by Hoodcom
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What would happen if a ship got sucked in? Another dimension or something?


The picture there looks pretty interesting though!

I believe that what happens when you get to the even horizon is far more bizarre than that...

...But I think someone else could do a better job of describing it.
 

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Originally Posted by savagebunny
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Too bad we can't see them with our own eyes

Someday,when we can warp like star trek voyager
 

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Originally Posted by Clockadile Dundee View Post
I believe that what happens when you get to the even horizon is far more bizarre than that...

...But I think someone else could do a better job of describing it.
Yeah.. we call it spaghettification.

The event horizon is the point at which the gravitational force stops even light from escaping. As classical physics tells us, proper momentum is needed to reach what is known as escape velocity. If light cannot reach the speed required for this escape velocity than nothing can short of a redefinition of comtemporary physics allowing superluminal acceleration.

I'd hardly call this bizarre. Bizarre is the manner in which quantum uncertainty spontaneously generates particle pairs to avoid being at a 'known' value. If there were nothing in a vaccum, we would know the definite value of a field: 0. So, instead, random particles appear as if from no where at all and annihilate each other just a quickly -in this way, even in what we call empty space, we can never define an exact value to a field. Stranger still, as this 'virtual particle pair' come into existance, one of them can cross the event horizon while the other just barely escapes. In this way, a new particle is born from absolutely nothing. If that doesn't kick you in the teeth, than the revelation that this phenomena is responsible for hawking radiation should. That is, and to put this in as plain a word as possible, God creates random particles in space so that even black holes glow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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Originally Posted by jcettison
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Yeah.. we call it spaghettification.

The event horizon is the point at which the gravitational force stops even light from escaping. As classical physics tells us, proper acceleration is needed to reach what is known as escape velocity. If light cannot reach the speed required for this escape velocity than nothing can short of a redefinition of comtemporary physics allowing superluminal acceleration.

Doesn't something happen to the effect of, if a person were observing you, they would see you just freeze, or is that what you would perceive?

I only hope you bare with me, and answer what would be a more valid form of that question, hehe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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Originally Posted by jcettison
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Yeah.. we call it spaghettification.

The event horizon is the point at which the gravitational force stops even light from escaping. As classical physics tells us, proper momentum is needed to reach what is known as escape velocity. If light cannot reach the speed required for this escape velocity than nothing can short of a redefinition of comtemporary physics allowing superluminal acceleration.

I'd hardly call this bizarre. Bizarre is the manner in which quantum uncertainty spontaneously generates particle pairs to avoid being at a 'known' value. If there were nothing in a vaccum, we would know the definite value of a field: 0. So, instead, random particles appear as if from no where at all and annihilate each other just a quickly -in this way, even in what we call empty space, we can never define an exact value to a field. Stranger still, as this 'virtual particles' come into existance, one of them can cross the event horizon while the other just barely escapes. In this way, a new particle is born from absolutely nothing. If that doesn't kick you in the teeth, than the revelation that this phenomena is responsible for hawking radiation. That is, and to put this in as plain a word as possible, God creates random particles in space so that even black holes glow.

Does that have to do with how he decided that information is not lost, after all those years?

While that does kick me in the teeth, I know the universe holds a lot of mystery. I expect to hear this kind of thing, don't you? It is so ...beautiful.
 

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Originally Posted by Clockadile Dundee
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Doesn't something happen to the effect of, if a person were observing you, they would see you just freeze, or is that what you would perceive?

I only hope you bare with me, and answer what would be a more valid form of that question, hehe.


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Originally Posted by Clockadile Dundee
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Does that have to do with how he decided that information is not lost, after all those years?

While that does kick me in the teeth, I know the universe holds a lot of mystery. I expect to hear this kind of thing, don't you? It is so ...beautiful.

I'm no physicist, only an avid reader and student. So anything you ask of me I'm sure I've asked something equally (or vastly more) uninformed. Only through asking questions can we ever know their answers.

Yes, this does reflect back on the topic of whether information is 'lost' in a black hole. Even Hawking himself has swayed to and fro on this topic, and his trepidation regarding the topic is made apparent in his 1996 re-working of his best-selling work A Brief History of Time. That would be a discussion much lengthier than time permits but there is much light (layman-level) reading available on these topics. The Elegant Universe or Fabric Of The Cosmos is a great introductory book on theoretical physics.

Yes, I have irrevocable faith in physics. The raw method behind all the universe is so grand, so intenful that it inspires in me a feeling that borders spirtuality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
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Originally Posted by jcettison
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I'm no physicist, only an avid reader and student. So anything you ask of me I'm sure I've asked something equally (or vastly more) uninformed. Only through asking questions can we ever know their answers.

Yes, this does reflect back on the topic of whether information is 'lost' in a black hole. Even Hawking himself has swayed to and fro on this topic, and his trepidation regarding the topic is made apparent in his 1996 re-working of his best-selling work A Brief History of Time. That would be a discussion much lengthier than time permits but there is much light (layman-level) reading available on these topics. The Elegant Universe or Fabric Of The Cosmos is a great introductory book on theoretical physics.

Yes, I have irrevocable faith in physics. The raw method behind all the universe is so grand, so intenful that it inspires in me a feeling that borders spirtuality.

Of course, but to think our understanding of it is complete and without error, at pretty much any time before, and including now (maybe not in the future), is arrogant. I am not saying physics is not trustworthy, comprehend-able, and the foundation of all that is, just that we as humans are fallible, so our understanding of things is as well.
 

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Originally Posted by Clockadile Dundee
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Of course, but to think our understanding of it is complete and without error, at pretty much any time before, and including now (maybe not in the future), is arrogant. I am not saying physics is not trustworthy, comprehend-able, and the foundation of all that is, just that we as humans are fallible, so our understanding of things is as well.

Ignoring what is right in front of you is arrogant. Believing that the universe is causal and thus that logic provides a path to uncover the breadcrumbs causality leaves behind is scientific.

This would be summed up much more elegantly by Confucius: "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge. "
 
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Originally Posted by MrDeodorant
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You'd die gruesomely, but it's possible your constituent atoms might emerge through a white hole into another universe.

Too bad we've never seen white holes. I wonder if that's what the Big Bang was? A simultaneous dump of the sum of all the energy that entered a black hole in a previous universe.

You might be on to something here lol...

Quote:


Originally Posted by jcettison
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I'm no physicist, only an avid reader and student. So anything you ask of me I'm sure I've asked something equally (or vastly more) uninformed. Only through asking questions can we ever know their answers.

Yes, this does reflect back on the topic of whether information is 'lost' in a black hole. Even Hawking himself has swayed to and fro on this topic, and his trepidation regarding the topic is made apparent in his 1996 re-working of his best-selling work A Brief History of Time. That would be a discussion much lengthier than time permits but there is much light (layman-level) reading available on these topics. The Elegant Universe or Fabric Of The Cosmos is a great introductory book on theoretical physics.

Yes, I have irrevocable faith in physics. The raw method behind all the universe is so grand, so intenful that it inspires in me a feeling that borders spirtuality.

This sort of kind and helpful post is the reason I joined this site in the first place. Thanks for keeping it alive and for the information sharing. Rep+
 
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