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Iconoclast
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Can you show me that?
It's surprisingly hard to find decent reviews that feature bad fans alongside good ones, but even the spread between decent fans is pretty illustrative (from overclockers.com):


I have some cheap 120x25mm thick ball bearing fans that are worse than anything on that chart in noise vs. performance and enough samples of them to know it's normal for them.

Regarding dBA vs. RPM (vortez.net):



There is damn good reason why fans like the Nidec Gentile Typhoon, Noctua NF-A12x25, and more recently, the Arctic P12, are well regarded...especially when they have to overcome restriction.

Isn't coil whine supposed to be quiet, but annoying noise?
Sometimes it's loud and annoying.

The big irony is that I'm deaf (moderately on one ear and severely with other), but computer noise bothers me a lot. For some reason it's really audible to me and I really can't stand it. Yet for some reason, certain stock coolers are soothing for my ears. I remember some old AMD cooler in university's computer. It was typical old 6000 rpm capable jet, but it didn't bother me. It was rather pleasant. But one day, when I plugged in that Yate Loon from PSU (which is essentially a server fan used in PSU), it was just plain obnoxious and unpleasant. It was so bad, that it was almost vacuum cleaner bad.
Tonality is important. That's why bearing noise generally bothers me more than airflow noise, and high pitch noise is generally more annoying for most people than lower pitched noise.

Unfortunately it's also pretty subjective and thus hard to review; one has to experience it. Subjectively speaking, the A12x25s are very tolerable--and slightly more pleasant than the Arctic P12s, for example, even though they have the same dBA.
 
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Discussion Starter · #142 ·
It's surprisingly hard to find decent reviews that feature bad fans alongside good ones, but even the spread between decent fans is pretty illustrative (from overclockers.com):
Sorry, picture isn't showing up.


Regarding dBA vs. RPM (vortez.net):

I looked at chart and thought "damn, some fans are really pos" until I looked at loudness scale. It didn't start with 0 dB. Since 3 dB is the lowest perceptable loudness change and 0dB is the lowest perceptable sound (DECIBEL (LOUDNESS) COMPARISON CHART | Galen Carol Audio | Galen Carol Audio), Between Noctua and Thermaltake Riing, there isn't any noticeable change in loudness. Difference is exactly 3 dB. With only Deepcool being utter garbage.

And yes, I know that loudness isn't normal scale, but slightly exponential one, so perhaps smallest perceptable difference also goes to lower numerical value the louder it gets, but typically speakers have deviation measured with 3dB. There is a scale for reference:



There is damn good reason why fans like the Nidec Gentle Typhoon, Noctua NF-A12x25, and more recently, the Arctic P12, are well regarded...especially when they have to overcome restriction.
There's not much that you can do to fan to overcome the major bottleneck of flowing air noise it seems. Either it's that, or all motors almost equally increase in noise to much. Flowing air noise seems to be by far the main source of noise. Of course motor can and does emit noise, you also have vibration noise and some other small noises, but the main thing is the air flowing.


Tonality is important. That's why bearing noise generally bothers me more than airflow noise, and high pitch noise is generally more annoying for most people than lower pitched noise.
Somehow low frequency noise is far more annoying to me. Despite the fact, that after so many hearing tests I clearly lack hearing in higher frequencies, rather than low ones. That CM pump annoyed me a lot, but stock AMD fan was kinda fine. Here's that fan:

Of course in that university computer CPU wasn't loaded much, so it wasn't spinning that fast. That computer had some variety of Phenom X4 first gen. Of course, if it's just a pitch, then at same rpms AMD fan would be nicer to me, but if it spins at max rpms, then no it's unbearable. And AMD fans sure did spin fast (AMD stock cooler fan maxed out at 6k rpm):


Unfortunately it's also pretty subjective and thus hard to review; one has to experience it. Subjectively speaking, the A12x25s are very tolerable--and slightly more pleasant than the Arctic P12s, for example, even though they have the same dBA.
That's some good engineering at Arctic. Their fans for a long time were one of the cheapest fans that you could get (the absolute cheapest legit fans were sub 2 Euros Cooler Master "silent" fans Silent Fan 120 SI2 | Cooler Master). 120mm F12 was selling for 4 Euros per fan (after years of being super cheap and readily available, there are some availability issues and their price fluctuated to over 10 Euros per fan and now you no longer can buy F12 Silents in Lithuania). Meanwhile comparable Scythe fans cost what average fans do, 10 Euros. And the main reason why I dislike Noctua and Be Quiet (Corsair too, but they deal with water mostly, so I don't care) is that their fans were always in ~25 Euro range. So, it makes no sense to choose those brands.

Right now, P12s are going for 7.5 Euros. Pretty good, well below average 120mm fan price.
 

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Iconoclast
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Sorry, picture isn't showing up.
Chart was from this review: Noctua NF-P12 redux Fan Review - Overclockers

I looked at chart and thought "damn, some fans are really pos" until I looked at loudness scale. It didn't start with 0 dB. Since 3 dB is the lowest perceptable loudness change and 0dB is the lowest perceptable sound (DECIBEL (LOUDNESS) COMPARISON CHART | Galen Carol Audio | Galen Carol Audio), Between Noctua and Thermaltake Riing, there isn't any noticeable change in loudness. Difference is exactly 3 dB. With only Deepcool being utter garbage.
At 1000rpm something has to be wrong for there to be a noticeable difference between the fans. The A12x25 is still putting out significantly lower measured noise amplitude.

There's not much that you can do to fan to overcome the major bottleneck of flowing air noise it seems. Either it's that, or all motors almost equally increase in noise to much. Flowing air noise seems to be by far the main source of noise. Of course motor can and does emit noise, you also have vibration noise and some other small noises, but the main thing is the air flowing.
If you look at the maximum RPM chart the A12x25 is still the quietest fan tested, despite some being up to 530rpm slower and all of them moving less air: Noctua NF-A12x25 Fan Review - Benchmarks - Thermal Results

Fan geometry can allow some fans to move more useful air with less noise turbulence from their blades.

Somehow low frequency noise is far more annoying to me. Despite the fact, that after so many hearing tests I clearly lack hearing in higher frequencies, rather than low ones.
Probably why the higher frequencies ones don't bother you.

I still have pretty good hearing, and despite being almost 40 I can still hear those 17kHz 'mosquito' noise tones they use to annoy teens. Higher pitched fan and pump noises bother me considerably more than lower pitched ones.

Right now, P12s are going for 7.5 Euros. Pretty good, well below average 120mm fan price.
The Arctic P12s are the best bang for the buck in 120mm fans, at least out of fans I've tried. I still slightly prefer the Noctua A12x25's, but it's hard to justify buying them for most builds when the P12s are a quarter the price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #144 ·
Now it works, thanks.

At 1000rpm something has to be wrong for there to be a noticeable difference between the fans. The A12x25 is still putting out significantly lower measured noise amplitude.
Deepcool fan certainly has issues. I don't want to believe that it's not defective and so loud. Although they are super budget brand, some I would still expect basic quality out of them.


If you look at the maximum RPM chart the A12x25 is still the quietest fan tested, despite some being up to 530rpm slower and all of them moving less air: Noctua NF-A12x25 Fan Review - Benchmarks - Thermal Results

Fan geometry can allow some fans to move more useful air with less noise turbulence from their blades.
It seems that they figured out something good then. I don't use fast fans and never cared about them, due to noise. But at high rpms motor, blades and dampening seems to make a difference. Too bad that a single Noctua fan costs the half of decent case budget.

Probably why the higher frequencies ones don't bother you.

I still have pretty good hearing, and despite being almost 40 I can still hear those 17kHz 'mosquito' noise tones they use to annoy teens. Higher pitched fan and pump noises bother me considerably more than lower pitched ones.
I think it could be why, but my hearing drops past 2000 hz and that would be quite a lot of hertz for fan. At that point I don't hear like 30-40 dB and that my other ear doesn't hear as much as 90 dB past 4k hz. I'm not old, I'm only 21 years old. When I was 11 years old, I had some nasty flu like infection and it complicated. After I got better, I had sensorineural hearing loss. It wasn't fun. I'm deaf enough to qualify for hearing aids, but my residual hearing is sort of fine getting by everyday. The problem isn't that I don't hear sound, it's that my ears don't correctly process sound that they hear. If someone is talking to me, I hear it, but there's a lack of definition or "sound resolution" in simplified terms.

But still for some reason, PC sound annoys me a lot.


The Arctic P12s are the best bang for the buck in 120mm fans, at least out of fans I've tried. I still slightly prefer the Noctua A12x25's, but it's hard to justify buying them for most builds when the P12s are a quarter the price.
For some reason F12s and F12 Silents are usually even cheaper. At their price point, they are only competing with Xilence Redwing fans (Be Quiet! budget sub-brand), SilentiumPC Mistrals or Zephyrs, DeepCool Wind Blade 120s, Thermaltake Pure S 12s and Whatever is cheap this weak no name fans. In past I bough Xilence Redwings 80 mm fan and it was surprisingly solid. I'm pretty sure that they would perform rather well. I would love to see comparison between Artic F12 and Xilence Redwings.

Those Redwindgs fans seemingly have adequate specs and come with molex adapter:

1300 rpms and 22 dB sound decent, some other fans need 1100 rpm to achieve same noise (their starting voltage is also quite low at 6V, so they are good with classical fan controller). Artic F12 spins at 1350 rpms, but their noise is measured in 0.3 sones and I have no idea how I could convert that to dBs. Xilence fan states 44.71 cfm value, which sounds promising. Arctic states 53 cfms, so that's significantly higher. For reference, Noctua Redux 120 (NF-P12 redux-1300) sates 1300rpms, 19.8 dB and 54.33 cfm values. It looks similar to Arctic F12, but significantly more than Xilence Redwings. I would love it, if somebody tested those 3 fans.
 

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From the NF-P12 Redux review :
2488567


After switching from Arctic P12 to NF-P12 Redux, I can definitely vouch for this. dB meters don't tell you anything about how annoying the noise is. Even at max RPM, the Redux fans are more soothing than anything. lol
Like one of those white noise machines placed 20-30 feet away. It sounds much quieter than the Arctic P12 at max RPM, and moves considerably more air from what I can tell just by putting my hand over the vents. Also had an issue with the Arctic fans causing an obnoxious resonance with my case fan bracket. I'm sure this depends on the particular case and use, but the Noctua fans are definitely more balanced than the Arctic.

IMO the Redux is definitely worth the 2x price premium over the Arctic, unless you're on a tight budget. I don't think I could justify A12x25's though 😄
 

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Made an indisputable video for those who disagree. It’s very scientific and qualitative. Purely objective!

And before you complain, I can’t set the RPM to EXACTLY 1200 RPM with PWM I can only get to ~1130 RPM.

There is also a D5 pump in this setup.

My fiancée is another room, 8 meters away and you can here her talking to the dog over the fans.

They’re quiet. Nuff said. Or wuff said.

If that's quiet, I'm batman. That's 33-35dba at 50cm.
That's not quiet, that's acceptable, and it's still a subjective mather.

Quiet for me it's 27-29dba. When the noise of the PC blends so well with background noise that's hard to distinguish, unless you are at your desk, within 60-70cm of your PC.

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk
 

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From the NF-P12 Redux review :
View attachment 2488567

After switching from Arctic P12 to NF-P12 Redux, I can definitely vouch for this. dB meters don't tell you anything about how annoying the noise is. Even at max RPM, the Redux fans are more soothing than anything. lol
Like one of those white noise machines placed 20-30 feet away. It sounds much quieter than the Arctic P12 at max RPM, and moves considerably more air from what I can tell just by putting my hand over the vents. Also had an issue with the Arctic fans causing an obnoxious resonance with my case fan bracket. I'm sure this depends on the particular case and use, but the Noctua fans are definitely more balanced than the Arctic.

IMO the Redux is definitely worth the 2x price premium over the Arctic, unless you're on a tight budget. I don't think I could justify A12x25's though
Arctic p12 when working well, they're pretty much on par with nf a12x25.

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Discussion Starter · #148 · (Edited)
From the NF-P12 Redux review :
View attachment 2488567

After switching from Arctic P12 to NF-P12 Redux, I can definitely vouch for this. dB meters don't tell you anything about how annoying the noise is. Even at max RPM, the Redux fans are more soothing than anything. lol
Like one of those white noise machines placed 20-30 feet away. It sounds much quieter than the Arctic P12 at max RPM, and moves considerably more air from what I can tell just by putting my hand over the vents. Also had an issue with the Arctic fans causing an obnoxious resonance with my case fan bracket. I'm sure this depends on the particular case and use, but the Noctua fans are definitely more balanced than the Arctic.

IMO the Redux is definitely worth the 2x price premium over the Arctic, unless you're on a tight budget. I don't think I could justify A12x25's though 😄
Sounds a lot like a nonsense. If you can hear it, then you can measure it. Come, on, people made microscopes to see way beyond what eyes see and various electromagntic meters to perceive things that humans don't sense. If there's such noise in those fans, I guess it's just some particular pitch and if you analyze whole audible spectrum (20-20k hz) for loudness, you will find what is that noise. A simple dB meters might not measure whole audible spectrum and that's why it's "not what you can measure". Considering, that Arctic fans are almost cheapest of the heap, they certainly cut corners to make them cheap and it would be rather odd if they performed close to premium fans (or not odd at all, if there's nothing that you can meaningfully change). All in all, Arctic fans shouldn't really be any different from similar fans, meaning that they have fluid bearing and generic 7 blade design. In theory, there shouldn't be too much difference between fluid bearing fans and sleeve bearing fans as they work virtually the same, except that you can refill sleeve bearing and potentially make it quieter.

In terms of quality, I don't think that Noctua longevity is particularly outstanding. I haven't had sleeve bearing fan fail in my computer ever before and I specifically use 17 year old Scythe fan just to see if it ever dies. General consensus is, if you change oil or top it up, sleeve bearing fans will last a long time. It seem that over time oil evaporates slowly and existing oil may have a lot of microscopic metal shavings in it after many years, so that would make shaft wear out a lot faster in the end of fan's lifespan. Anyway, fan lifespan is generally isn't an issue that anybody would really need to care about much as even the basic sleeve bearing fans apparently last 17 years or so. I also have ATi X800 Pro and X800 XT PE both with sleeve fans and they both work, they are also about as old as that old ass 120mm fan. The only difference is that I replaced oil in them and likely put more than they ever had.
 

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If that's quiet, I'm batman. That's 33-35dba at 50cm.
That's not quiet, that's acceptable, and it's still a subjective mather.

Quiet for me it's 27-29dba. When the noise of the PC blends so well with background noise that's hard to distinguish, unless you are at your desk, within 60-70cm of your PC.

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk
LOL how did you come up with a decibel reading from a video I shot from my 8 second iPhone 6S video?

All I can hear is the static / buzz sound of the gain on the mic. The video was intended to be a joke if that wasn’t clear :)

Here is another pointless video of me recording the ambient noise when waking up in the morning and reading your comment. No electronics are on except my phone...

 

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Sounds a lot like a nonsense. If you can hear it, then you can measure it. Come, on, people made microscopes to see way beyond what eyes see and various electromagntic meters to perceive things that humans don't sense. If there's such noise in those fans, I guess it's just some particular pitch and if you analyze whole audible spectrum (20-20k hz) for loudness, you will find what is that noise. A simple dB meters might not measure whole audible spectrum and that's why it's "not what you can measure". Considering, that Arctic fans are almost cheapest of the heap, they certainly cut corners to make them cheap and it would be rather odd if they performed close to premium fans (or not odd at all, if there's nothing that you can meaningfully change). All in all, Arctic fans shouldn't really be any different from similar fans, meaning that they have fluid bearing and generic 7 blade design. In theory, there shouldn't be too much difference between fluid bearing fans and sleeve bearing fans as they work virtually the same, except that you can refill sleeve bearing and potentially make it quieter.

In terms of quality, I don't think that Noctua longevity is particularly outstanding. I haven't had sleeve bearing fan fail in my computer ever before and I specifically use 17 year old Scythe fan just to see if it ever dies. General consensus is, if you change oil or top it up, sleeve bearing fans will last a long time. It seem that over time oil evaporates slowly and existing oil may have a lot of microscopic metal shavings in it after many years, so that would make shaft wear out a lot faster in the end of fan's lifespan. Anyway, fan lifespan is generally isn't an issue that anybody would really need to care about much as even the basic sleeve bearing fans apparently last 17 years or so. I also have ATi X800 Pro and X800 XT PE both with sleeve fans and they both work, they are also about as old as that old ass 120mm fan. The only difference is that I replaced oil in them and likely put more than they ever had.
Only nonsense is your acting like you know so much without even being able to understand simple basic concepts here.

All even the best DB meters measure is an SPL reading (Sound Pressure Level). Our individual perception of what that sound pressure level sounds like is just that, our own perception. So if we use a meter and measure the noise level of 5 fans all having same 30dB(A), we could easily have some that sound very pleasant to our ears while others sound quite obnoxious. Because sounds are subjective a tonal quality you may like the rest of us might find obnoxious.

It's not at all odd that some very low priced fans have much nicer sound profile and performance than some very expensive fans do.

Which Scythe fan have you used 17 years? Is it a Gentle Typhoon? GTs have ball bearings. ;)
 
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I have fond memories of the Lanparty boards. And look at those Thermalright chipset coolers on the board. Remember lapping Thermalright cooling towers? glass and wet sandpaper..
Remember? I just did two of those over the winter.

Next?.. lapping a Macho.
 

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LOL how did you come up with a decibel reading from a video I shot from my 8 second iPhone 6S video?

All I can hear is the static / buzz sound of the gain on the mic. The video was intended to be a joke if that wasn’t clear :)

Here is another pointless video of me recording the ambient noise when waking up in the morning and reading your comment. No electronics are on except my phone...

Open back headphones tuned for fps gaming. There's a glaring difference between the 2.

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk
 

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Sounds a lot like a nonsense. If you can hear it, then you can measure it.
You can, just not with dBA. It's like measuring only brightness or luminance of an image and trying to guess what color is there.
 
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Open back headphones tuned for fps gaming. There's a glaring difference between the 2.

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk
If you want something more scientific, you can check this video out. The microphone is 5" away (~13cm) away from the fan. It's simply one of the quietest and well performing fans on the market. And in any real world scenario, it's nearly impossible to distinguish the sounds amid other ambient sounds at ~1200 rpm. In my honest opinion. It is subjective so I understand if we agree to disagree... :)


You can find a plethora of reviews validating it's acoustics and its performance if this is still unsuitable.


Edit: Question... how did you discern what was fan noise from the a12x25's in my case vs the corsair 140mm fan, my RTX 3060 Ti, my D5 pump, and my PSU?

Factor in all that noise vs. the static noise of the iphone and it's really not all that different. And to save face... in my opinion :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #155 · (Edited)
Only nonsense is your acting like you know so much without even being able to understand simple basic concepts here.
Sorry for that.

All even the best DB meters measure is an SPL reading (Sound Pressure Level). Our individual perception of what that sound pressure level sounds like is just that, our own perception. So if we use a meter and measure the noise level of 5 fans all having same 30dB(A), we could easily have some that sound very pleasant to our ears while others sound quite obnoxious. Because sounds are subjective a tonal quality you may like the rest of us might find obnoxious.
I see no reason why you couldn't measure loudness in whole spectrum or enough specific points and then make a spectrum from that. Then you could measure hearing of each person. And just like that get a good rough idea of what will sound the loudest that person. You can't measure properly psychological preferences of each person, but perhaps you can make a decent psychometric quiz for that, which will be 80% spot on. And that's how you do it. Obviously this requires a lot of equipment and time to do.

It's not at all odd that some very low priced fans have much nicer sound profile and performance than some very expensive fans do.
It is odd due to certain reasons. First of all, manufacturer of such fans will want to save costs and will use less oil, if it's a sleeve fan. For cheap fan, plastic may be saved too, so you can end up with cheaper, more bendy rattly fan. You will never get any kind of vibration dampening. Cheap fans usually come at higher than low rpms (1200-1500 rpm range). Often you don't get any PWM control and their starting voltage may be higher. Due to cheapness, finish of fan may be rough and that will create noise. It's very unlikely that you will get anything other than generic 7 blade design and if it's different, then it may not be tested if it works or doesn't. Therefore cheap fans have a lot of factors contributing against them being quiet or pleasant to ears.


Which Scythe fan have you used 17 years? Is it a Gentle Typhoon? GTs have ball bearings. ;)
It's nothing that fancy. It's just a fan that came with Scythe Andy Samurai Master (non ZZ version) downdraft cooler. My specific fan model is Scythe DFS122512L. I have looked online and it seems that it's called Scythe Kama PWM, but mine only has 3 pin connector, so there's no real PWM. Specs seem to be similar, but for piece of mind I will post them from review of that cooler:
1200 rpm
49.58 cfm
20.94 dB
sleeve bearing
25 width
0.18 amps


Here are some review of that heatsink with fan:

It seems that reviews are both from 2007, but I remember I found out about this cooler from even older Pentium 4 cooler round up, which was posted in 2003-2005. Perhaps cooler is from 2007, so fan is 14 years old. Scythe website has info about it anymore, but before modernization Scythe website had all their cooler data. Also all regional websites are different, so US, European and Japanese websites don't match (Japanese version for some reason has work out video, Noctua ad and Roccat ad in the bottom of spec list :D. Just some random Akiba things. And they have JDM only products like wonder snail and magisterial fans, their own PSUs, cases, RGB strips. Those ads aren't weird, they have their own shop that sells a lot of their own stuff as well as other brand stuff, but they don't sell anything Noctua and workout video is probably a good marketing material.). After digging further, Japanese (I can get by in it with my limited knowledge) website has certain legacy cooler data, but there isn't Andy Samurai Master there, only ZZ version (and it's called Samurai ZZ and cooler is smaller). Perhaps original Andy was EU and US release. Anyway, I found old scythe website on wayback machine, here's a link:
 

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If you've ever done recording or studio work, you'll probably be familiar with Fletcher Munson curves or Equal-loudness contour. It illustrates how humans perceive loudness across the audible spectrum at different volume levels. The red lines represent the SPL required at different frequencies and volume levels, to produce a perceived flat response / equal loudness.

2488628


Compare that to a measurement mic with a flat frequency response and you can understand why an SPL meter is not very useful for classifying perceived sound.

EDIT: I need to correct this statement ^
SPL meters typically use "A-weighting" to represent how humans perceive loudness, so they do not read flat, but A-Weighting is still flawed when it comes to noise measurements vs. perception.

You can read more about that in the "Relevance to sound level and noise measurements" heading on the wiki page.
 

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I think what T.Sharp and I are trying to say is the SPL of a sound is quite different from what we hear. For example a high pitched while (like coil whine) even at low dB(A) will be much more noticeable / aggravating than an nice smooth hum at same dB(A) reading .. in fact a smooth hum is probably less noticfable even at twice the dB(A) reading as a high pitched whine is.
 

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That hardly changes anything as AIO will still absorb that same heat or you will make AIO blow heat on everything else. You really can't solve this issue without some heat shielding, which nobody does as it isn't a big problem. And RX 580 while not a hot GPU, in terms of realistic thermals it was identical to GTX 1080. Read review:

I only use D15 as popular reference. I personally prefer Ninja 5 and yes it is big. Then again, you can find the air cooler for your specific needs and with different layouts. 120mm AIO is just awful in comparison it is beaten by 212 Evo and possibly even by 92mm towers. 120mm AIOs are costly (those cost two times more than 120mm towers), have all disadvantages of water cooling without performance advantage. It's truly the worst AIO type, unless nothing beefier fits.
I defiantly disagree on both statements.
In a closed case a AIO has a much smaller footprint around the GPU which allows airflow to pass with less restrictions through the GPU body, allowing better thermals and less heat bleed.
With a large tower, it will sit next to the GPU. There is 100% chance of heat bleed to reach from the GPU to the CPU cooler in a larger mass, so the fans on the tower will also need to dispense air from the GPU.

And no, your statement is not correct regarding 120mm AIOs. If you look at the H80I v2 reviews and compared it for the likes of 212 evo, the H80I does a better cooling job. It match for the most part the D15 which is just slightly cheaper.
So while yes, AIOs will cost more, they also do in many cases better job than regular towers or even high end cases.
This is similar to buying a GPU. Sometimes to get those 10 extra FPS, the price hicks up. And sometimes to get the more silent and better cooling, or better handling on a high OC without resorting to watercooling, AIOs can be a good choice.
Cost increase diminish in performance as you go higher. This isn't a surprise. But it is not a "worst AIO type". Reviews and case use disagree with that statement.
 

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And no, your statement is not correct regarding 120mm AIOs. If you look at the H80I v2 reviews and compared it for the likes of 212 evo, the H80I does a better cooling job. It match for the most part the D15 which is just slightly cheaper.
Yeah.....I'm going to go ahead and say that something that needs to be 25 dB louder (25....that is not a typo, and I did not forget a decimal point) to produce similar results does not "match for the most part the D15". Not to mention that it gets heatsoaked long before a D15.
 

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Did I just see someone compare an H80 to a D15?

Can I have some of what your smoking? I'll trade you some of mine ;)
 
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