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NH-D15 is easily as good, usually better as well as quieter than any of the 120x240mm radiators CLCs. H-80 is several degrees warmer. The fact H80 single 120mm fan sized rad is 49mm thick while 2x 120mm fan size rads are only 27-30mm thick is reason does as well as it does, but still not as good as 240mm rads.
All of above is about CLC rad, not custom loop component rads.

Now if we get into AIOs that are not CLC like Swiftech Drive X3 lineup and Alphacool Eisbaer / Eisbaer LT / Eisbaer Extreme lineup are basically entry level custom loops pre-assembled and filled. All have pumps moving several times more coolant than CLCs do, all connections use threaded fittings, all have copper radiators, all have fill ports, etc. While not near as good as custom loops they cost much less (often competing with CLCs) when much quieter & better cooling than most CLCs. Big advantage is owner can top up coolant as needed, even replace components (like pump) if needed, and of course drain flush and refill ever year or so.
 

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Did I just see someone compare an H80 to a D15?

Can I have some of what your smoking? I'll trade you some of mine ;)
You did. And here's the real kicker....that was not the first poster to do it in this thread (that has absolutely nothing to do with CLCs, but people needed to drag them in anyway).
 

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I used to compare my D14 to H100 all the time.. I get it.

They don't flash copper anymore because it clashes with RGB. Seriously. I love a sexy set of copper pipes and fins as much as the next guy.. but that's old school now..

But hey if you get a chance check out that new Frost Commander 140. Its a really good cooler. The fans on it are pretty good too. I noticed Phanteks had a dual stack 5x 8mm HSF too. Similar to FS140 upon a quick glance.. looked interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #164 ·
In a closed case a AIO has a much smaller footprint around the GPU which allows airflow to pass with less restrictions through the GPU body, allowing better thermals and less heat bleed.
Hot air goes through exhaust fans too and AIO uses those for cooling (unless you use AIO as intake and dump all that heat on everything, which is disaster for whole system thermals)


With a large tower, it will sit next to the GPU. There is 100% chance of heat bleed to reach from the GPU to the CPU cooler in a larger mass, so the fans on the tower will also need to dispense air from the GPU.
Just like an AIO.


And no, your statement is not correct regarding 120mm AIOs. If you look at the H80I v2 reviews and compared it for the likes of 212 evo, the H80I does a better cooling job. It match for the most part the D15 which is just slightly cheaper.
So while yes, AIOs will cost more, they also do in many cases better job than regular towers or even high end cases.
While you are correct that it's a good performing 120 mm AIO, where you aren't correct is that it's somehow good value.

It pretty much gets whopped by Scythe Mugen 4 (but matches D15 in value, which is unsurprising, because Noctua sells heavily overpriced coolers). Even when compared too cooler like Dark Rock 3, H80i doesn't look that good in terms of value. AIO costs almost two times more. And finally, we have noise. The fan tops out at 2500 rpms, that is super loud. Anything over 1500 rpms is obviously very audible and noisy, but at 2500 noise is just brutal. Mugen 4 tops out at just 1200 rpms and achieves similar performance, Dark Rock 3 tops out at 1413 rpm. Then you also have pump noise, which will add up to noise. So AIO matches air coolers only if it screams like a banshee while doing so.

And I'm not sure how it does a better job than most towers, it performs at D15 level. Any big tower cooler with fan as fast on H80 will whop it, there's no competition there. Even 212 Evo might get close to H80 with fan as fast. That review was with pretty much no GPU heat being reabsorbed and once AIO water heats up, it won't have nearly as much radiator dissipation are as big tower cooler so it will perform worse if that review used loaded GPU too and also not in test bench, but in actual case.

So here you have no value for your money, adequate performance, awful acoustics and all AIO risks. AIO is not worth it, but in just performance alone it beats 212 Evo. But overall 212 Evo is a better cooler due to providing value for your money, being less noisy, being upgradable (you can put a second fan), not having AIO failure points and not having pump noise. Without fan replacement, H80 has no place in any HTPC due that insane amount of noise. For some reason H80 is not the only one AIO with fans so loud, but big tower coolers just simply don't have fans as fast. 2500 rpm fans in this day and age are an embarrassment, that's literally server like loud. Not only that, but you get two of those fans and pump noise on top.


This is similar to buying a GPU. Sometimes to get those 10 extra FPS, the price hicks up. And sometimes to get the more silent and better cooling, or better handling on a high OC without resorting to watercooling, AIOs can be a good choice.
Cost increase diminish in performance as you go higher. This isn't a surprise. But it is not a "worst AIO type". Reviews and case use disagree with that statement.
It really is the worst type of AIO. It has all typical AIO maladies, unexceptional performance, lots of noise. If you want a good AIO, you buy 360 or 280mm AIO not 120mm nonsense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #166 ·
They don't flash copper anymore because it clashes with RGB. Seriously. I love a sexy set of copper pipes and fins as much as the next guy.. but that's old school now..
Nothing old school about beefy cooling system.


But hey if you get a chance check out that new Frost Commander 140. Its a really good cooler. The fans on it are pretty good too. I noticed Phanteks had a dual stack 5x 8mm HSF too. Similar to FS140 upon a quick glance.. looked interesting.
I'm pretty sure that Scythe Fuma 2 is a better cooler than FS140. For real, check it out it has some cool aerodynamic design going on.
 

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Yeah.. I don’t think so.
 

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Also some reviews use test benches and very weak GPUs, so effect of GPU heat being dumped on cooler isn't being tested.
This has absolutely no relation to what I said. None. It's not even the same subject. It's a completely random comment.

Yeah.. I don’t think so.
Yeah....having used the Fuma 2...I don't think so, either.
 

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Also some reviews use test benches and very weak GPUs, so effect of GPU heat being dumped on cooler isn't being tested.
How do you propose we test cooler with "GPU heat being dumped onto cooler" and be able to judge cooler performance accurately?

Pure and simple; the best way to test and compare coolers is on open bench while monitoring air temp entering cooler to be sure all coolers are using same temp air.

All other ways of testing is adding variables that make it harder to determine coolers' actual performance.

Nothing old school about beefy cooling system.

I'm pretty sure that Scythe Fuma 2 is a better cooler than FS140. For real, check it out it has some cool aerodynamic design going on.
What Outerspace said.
Thermalright's new Frost Commander 140 (not Frost Spirit 140) looks to be better than all but a very few coolers out there.
Frost Commander 140 has 5x 8mm heatpipes (Frost Spirit has 4x 8mm heatpipes)
Fuma 2 has 6x 6mm heatpipes = 18.84sqmm surface area & 28.26sqmm volume per mm length of each heatpipe. That =113.04sqmm per mm heatpipe in base & 339.12sqmm/mm in finpack.
FC140 has 5x 8mm heatpipes = 25.12sqmm surface area & 50.24sqmm volume per mm length of each heatpipe. That = 126.6sqmm per mm heatpipe in base & 502.4sqmm/mm in finpack

Still think Fuma 2 is better?
 
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If you were my neighbor I would bring you over a beverage.
 

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Hadn't seen that one before, thanks for pointing it out. Looks interesting, would like to see some tests.

Don't get me wrong, the Fuma is a great smaller cooler, but it doesn't compare to the likes of the FC.
Indeed, Pearless Assassin looks to be very good performer.
It comes in 4 flavors;
Peerless Assassin plain silver w/ black fans​
Peerless Assassin Black w/ black fins & fans.​
Peerless Assassin White w/ white fins & fans​
Peerless Assassin White ARGB with ARGB, white fins & fans​

2489054
 

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Nothing old school about beefy cooling system.



I'm pretty sure that Scythe Fuma 2 is a better cooler than FS140. For real, check it out it has some cool aerodynamic design going on.
I know, I love it.. RGB though.. not so much.

I own Le Grand Macho RT, True Spirit 140 Power, and Ultra 120 Extreme. Frost Commander 140 is easily better than those coolers, by more than a couple of C's..

I don't put the Fuma 2 in the same class as any of those coolers, maybe the Ultra 120.. but I dunno.. I haven't used one.

I am a massive Thermalright Fanboy. Like the Noctua variant..
 

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Really wish Thermalright had dealers in western world like they did in early days of heatpipe cooling.
 

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Me too.. it would make things a little cheaper.. maybe.. but I think I got a good price shipped, considering how far it travelled. The box was a little beaten, but inside was still good. I was shocked the cooler was available as soon as it was announced lol.. That is when I saw the PA120.. it was available before its announcement lol. Not gonna lie I do kinda like the white.. :D

I know that one guy here had a crap sample.. and I really don't know what to say about that.. that was more than a little ****ed up, the operator didn't catch it, QA didn't catch it, like *** happened there? That's not normal, you know that..

What is normal is the same quality the Noctua guys know..
 

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I know that one guy here had a crap sample.. and I really don't know what to say about that.. that was more than a little **ed up, the operator didn't catch it, QA didn't catch it, like * happened there? That's not normal, you know that..
That was a LGMRT, wasn't it? They got him squared away.
 

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Yessir it was. Haven't heard back from him so I guess it works ok?
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 ·
How do you propose we test cooler with "GPU heat being dumped onto cooler" and be able to judge cooler performance accurately?

Pure and simple; the best way to test and compare coolers is on open bench while monitoring air temp entering cooler to be sure all coolers are using same temp air.

All other ways of testing is adding variables that make it harder to determine coolers' actual performance.
That's very unrealistic scenario as temperatures will be lower than in any case and therefore some potentially overheating hardware doesn't look as bad as on open air test bench. Intel stock coolers are sometimes tested in test bench and seem to be able to cope with stock CPU loads, but it fails in many cases just due to how close it is to overheating.

I personally wouldn't see any problem with using some nice and beefy ATX case like Fractal Design Define 7 with two intake fans and single exhaust fan. For GPU use something hot and something that doesn't have boost and many power saving features. So, it could be GTX 480 (not blower version). It should work fine if you change nothing, but coolers and only do thermal tests. For acoustics test you will need open bench and sound dampened room (and for that matter, a passively cooled PSU). I don't see why that wouldn't work well, especially in this era, when "gamer" GPU dumps a lot of heat into case and some of it will inevitably end up in cooler. That's quite a big deal in mid tower ATX cases and anything smaller than that. Besides something over the top like CM HAF series, I haven't seen a case that somehow could effectively deal with exhausted heat from GPU. (Although it wouldn't be impossible to fix. You can use blower card or some case manufacturer could design an adjustable air duct for side panel and mount 140/120mm exhaust fan on side, as well as air intake on the bottom of side panel with adjustable duct for GPU cooling. The reason why I don't like most side fan holes is because they are awkwardly placed. There's always a side panel mounting in place, where GPU both intakes and exhausts air, so it's impossible to know if it's better put fan as intake or exhaust. Even HAF X had this problem, but at least that fan seemingly helped GPUs to stay cool.).


What Outerspace said.
Thermalright's new Frost Commander 140 (not Frost Spirit 140) looks to be better than all but a very few coolers out there.
Frost Commander 140 has 5x 8mm heatpipes (Frost Spirit has 4x 8mm heatpipes)
Fuma 2 has 6x 6mm heatpipes = 18.84sqmm surface area & 28.26sqmm volume per mm length of each heatpipe. That =113.04sqmm per mm heatpipe in base & 339.12sqmm/mm in finpack.
FC140 has 5x 8mm heatpipes = 25.12sqmm surface area & 50.24sqmm volume per mm length of each heatpipe. That = 126.6sqmm per mm heatpipe in base & 502.4sqmm/mm in finpack

Still think Fuma 2 is better?
Oh, not anymore. It seems that Thermalright is still doing some fine engineering. However, I think that Fuma 2's concept of using opposing fans is really cool and seems to work quite well. Now I would like to see how Frost Commander 140's heatsink would work with FUMA 2's fan setup. It could be really quiet and exceptionally well performing cooler. The only problem is that there are no fans sold that have blades spinning in opposing direction. And it would be even better, if blades would be from Noiseblocker eLoop fans. Knowing how legal system works, it would be easiest for Noiseblocker to enter cooler manufacturing. That or for Thermalright to collab with Noiseblocker and use Scythe's fan idea for their own product (it's not even Scythe's idea, it seems rather generic). It would be really cool and they could name that cooler "Thermalright True Airflow 140". If they made it right size and perhaps added third fan, this monstrosity could finally dethrone D15 for being "money no object" air cooling solution. Hell, it may even give some big AIOs a run for their money (for that it would also need to have shroud, so all airflow would go through fins, not be lost in case somewhere). And on top of it all, it wouldn't require any expensive materials or much additional manufacturing tools, so it could be sold for lower or comparable price to D15.
 

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Discussion Starter · #180 ·
I know, I love it.. RGB though.. not so much.

I own Le Grand Macho RT, True Spirit 140 Power, and Ultra 120 Extreme. Frost Commander 140 is easily better than those coolers, by more than a couple of C's..

I don't put the Fuma 2 in the same class as any of those coolers, maybe the Ultra 120.. but I dunno.. I haven't used one.
Sorry, I made a mistake. It looks like Fuma isn't in same tier. But I'm not sure why would you mention RGB. Fuma 2 doesn't have any and for that matter Scythe doesn't really make RGB coolers, unless it's collab with Asus TUF.
 
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