Overclock.net banner
21 - 36 of 36 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
884 Posts
So...i narrowed it down to two options.

Option A: Elac Debut DBR62 + Denon HEOS AMP HS2 SRE2
Overall for about 1200 dollars. Stereo with support for subwoofer, aux, TOSLINK network, USB inputs...

Option B: pair of active speakers - Magnat Active 2000 for under 300 dollars.
I sure you'd enjoy either setup, whether it's worth 4x as much for option A, I can't say.

I'm sure you could save some money on the amp if you wanted to though.
 

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I sure you'd enjoy either setup, whether it's worth 4x as much for option A, I can't say.

I'm sure you could save some money on the amp if you wanted to though.
In the end, speakers went down to 350 Euro (about 430 dollars, new were about 600). I took a different more simple amp, NAD d3020 v2 and in the end it was 850 euro.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: T.Sharp

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Nice, sounds like you got a pretty sweet kit. That's a good deal for the Elac speakers! Interesting little amp too.

I think you'll be set for a long while (y)
In the end it sounds really great. Later i found out that getting Yamaha WXA-50 could be slightly better deal in terms of functionality and sound clarity (mainly treble) at cost of THD, but it was too late to change my mind afterwards.

So now... Imagine new bluray movie, with DTS-HD MA sound, which is lossless 48KHz/24bit for 6 channels, SW processed with LAV audio filter downmix to stereo. Output is in 48KHz/32bit float (eg 24 bit, but with higher range and no clipping) lossless at 3072kbps. SPDIF cannot put it through so i use AUX. Luckily for me, onboard ALC1220 and other electronics around is quite decent.

Although i really enjoy CDs and FLACs, the configuration above was reason decided for the upgrade and it was absolutely worth it.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: T.Sharp

· Registered
Joined
·
884 Posts
In the end it sounds really great. Later i found out that getting Yamaha WXA-50 could be slightly better deal in terms of functionality and sound clarity (mainly treble) at cost of THD, but it was too late to change my mind afterwards.
Glad you like it, man! Were you able to find any good measurement reports for the NAD D3020 V2? This is the only one I came across : NAD D 3020 V2 amplifier Lab Report

Not much for measurements, but it's strange that distortion increases linearly with output. Not something you typically see.
So now... Imagine new bluray movie, with DTS-HD MA sound, which is lossless 48KHz/24bit for 6 channels, SW processed with LAV audio filter downmix to stereo. Output is in 48KHz/32bit float (eg 24 bit, but with higher range and no clipping) lossless at 3072kbps. SPDIF cannot put it through so i use AUX. Luckily for me, onboard ALC1220 and other electronics around is quite decent.
Hard for me to imagine 😄 I usually watch Amazon prime or compressed movies from torrents. Never played a bluray on my PC. Any movie recommendations?

When you say onboard ALC1220, you mean the motherboard?
EDIT: ahh, yeah the X399M Taichi

Looks like it could be a pretty solid DAC if it performs as well in that board as this Asrock Z390
 

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Glad you like it, man! Were you able to find any good measurement reports for the NAD D3020 V2? This is the only one I came across : NAD D 3020 V2 amplifier Lab Report

Not much for measurements, but it's strange that distortion increases linearly with output. Not something you typically see.
The amplifier part is Hypex UcD (Universal Class D). Even when I am into computers, classic electronics is beyond me. I checked that review and was told that this kind of behavior is very good at that price range and segment.

DAC is Cirrus Logic's CS42528. It has 8 outputs which get mixed down to 2 channels. I can sent compressed AC3 7,1 through toslink and DAC will do the mixing in the hardware or 4+4 for better quality:

It has bluetooth and input for gramophone, but i am not gonna use them in the foreseeable future.


Hard for me to imagine 😄 I usually watch Amazon prime or compressed movies from torrents. Never played a bluray on my PC. Any movie recommendations?
Depends, new Blade Runner 2049 has uncompressed audio, while it was recorded and mastered recently (so no remaster from 1995). But I am really curious about live concert BluRays with this format.

When you say onboard ALC1220, you mean the motherboard?
EDIT: ahh, yeah the X399M Taichi

Looks like it could be a pretty solid DAC if it performs as well in that board as this Asrock Z390
Yes. For most of time, onboard soundcard was just there, never to be used. Anything, including cheap cards was better than that. Last few years at least AsRock started to use Nichicon caps, gold plated connectors, old but good headphone amplifiers, separated PCB layers for L/R, separated power source for audio...

I would guess that those values change when PC is under heavy load, but its really good for what it is.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: T.Sharp

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
This is just a question out of curiosity...

I might add an active subwoofer, but I am not sure whether its worth it.

So far I only found out (based on Metallica CDs from 1988/89 which are mastered similar to vinyl) that bass guitar and drums are not sounding as well as they might... There is a bass setting on amp which boosts 80Hz by 7db, and it makes it sound just right.

I really dont know what to expect from a good subwoofer (i already have 3 bad ones at home. One old cheap Philips, Creative T2900 and Genius 5,1). Is there anything what has 80db at 20-80Hz and will not sound too loudly when overlapping with 80-200Hz range where the Elac are quite well covered?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
884 Posts
I don't have much experience with subs. This is what I used to have hooked up to my JBL 305's : Amazon.com: Monoprice Stage Right 10-Inch Powered Studio Multimedia Subwoofer - (605999) Black: Home Audio & Theater

I always had trouble crossing it over smoothly though. I set the crossover at 80Hz and turned the gain on the sub to the minimum and then tried to match the level using the gain adjustment on the back of the JBLs, but it never sounded right to me. I think placement had a lot to do with it, but getting the gain matched wasn't easy because anything other than minimum gain on the sub would overpower the monitors. It did have an issue with port "chuffing" too, even at moderate levels. Nice thing is that it has a jack for a footswitch so you can easily bypass it on the fly. It's all balanced line level I/O, so not a good fit in your case. I think you'd need something with speaker level pass through I/O if you want to use it with your rig.

Anyway, I moved into a studio apt and ended up giving it to my composer / producer buddy who has a home studio. I'm happy with 2.0 for my current space.

Sorry I can't be more help there.
 

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I don't have much experience with subs. This is what I used to have hooked up to my JBL 305's : Amazon.com: Monoprice Stage Right 10-Inch Powered Studio Multimedia Subwoofer - (605999) Black: Home Audio & Theater
This actually helped me a bit.

1. Subwoofers I have, do not have ability to set crossover frequency, while they cover almost no range. No way they can improve the sound, even when they might increase the bass.
2. The one you posted would be too loud in most situations. I have now 30+30 watts RMS... And the subs i found on Elac... the weakest one has 60w RMS.

And here come "If" and "maybe" part.
a)The woofers might need some burn-in time.
I have them for less than a week so the bass might slightly improve with usage. (no i am not going to play music 24/7 on max sound)

b)Few reviewers even said that those speakers have bass presence of their own and subwoofer is not needed. for reference:


If its true that bass guitar and kick drum go down to 60Hz, they should be like 1,5-3db below the red line. At 40Hz its 10db lower... All this is within reach of available SW equalizers.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: T.Sharp

· Registered
Joined
·
884 Posts
The one you posted would be too loud in most situations. I have now 30+30 watts RMS... And the subs i found on Elac... the weakest one has 60w RMS.
That's not really an issue if you have more headroom than you need, you just turn down the sub. The range of adjustment on mine just wasn't great for my speaker combination because if I turned up the monitors to match it better, I could only use about 1/3 of the range of the volume knob on my audio interface. I would hope that a sub made for speaker level I/O would be easier to match. 🤷‍♂️

Of course there's also the phase issues you get when you add another sound source. It will take some experimentation to get a sub to sit right in the mix without causing nulls and peaks. 2.0 stereo has it's benefits for sure.
And here come "If" and "maybe" part.
a)The woofers might need some burn-in time.
I have them for less than a week so the bass might slightly improve with usage. (no i am not going to play music 24/7 on max sound)
They will probably change slightly, but not to the extent that's it's really noticeable.
b)Few reviewers even said that those speakers have bass presence of their own and subwoofer is not needed. for reference:

If its true that bass guitar and kick drum go down to 60Hz, they should be like 1,5-3db below the red line. At 40Hz its 10db lower... All this is within reach of available SW equalizers.
Yeah the bass extension looks pretty solid as is, no harm in adding some EQ though. Just don't try to extend it too far because it will start to severely distort the woofer at some point.

This is a nifty little tool that's helpful for EQing speakers and finding comb filtering issues.
I use AudioTools for iOS and the FFT spectrum analyzer. Play pink noise through the system and try to get it relatively flat with EQ. You can also go full hog and make an automatically generated custom profile with REW (Room EQ Wizard).
 

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
This is a nifty little tool that's helpful for EQing speakers and finding comb filtering issues.
I use AudioTools for iOS and the FFT spectrum analyzer. Play pink noise through the system and try to get it relatively flat with EQ. You can also go full hog and make an automatically generated custom profile with REW (Room EQ Wizard).
Even when I invested into display calibration sensor, it was because I am a photographer and having calibrated display is definitely helping when I am doing color grading (its also awesome when watching movies). This is bit different because one cannot become an audiophile while using custom desktop computer with 14 fans, regardless of how silent they can run.

So after reading dozens of specs, SNRs, THDs and such stuff, i will probably not change anything on the current setup. A subwoofer might add some kick, but so far, the burn-in of the speakers (over two weeks) helped the bass, and I placed them in a way where the table helps to pronounce the bass sound.

It is still bit of a surprise that Analog input has slightly better sound than Toslink, but after some further read its not so uncommon - the internal DAC should be flat. Also, according to the NAD support, the analog sources are going directly to amplifier, bypassing internal DSP/DAC. Does it opens a way for an upgrade? Probably not because my current soundcard and AUX input both have SNR at 93db, and about same THD.

I would probably like to see more reviews of NAD d3020 v2, but thats about it.
 

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
2513770
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: T.Sharp

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Those Elacs are lookin good!

I recommend picking up a set of foam isolation pads to put under those bad boys 👌
I am almost sure the table changed the sound, but to me it sound like it enhanced bass in a similar way how a large cabinet speaker would. I might pad them with something just to test it, but so far i like the sound (movies, death metal).
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,242 Posts
Yo, nice setup!!

Man, I can’t wait to get out of this apartment so I can try to justify having some nice speakers.
 

· Tank destroyer and a god
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Yo, nice setup!!

Man, I can’t wait to get out of this apartment so I can try to justify having some nice speakers.
I highly recommend those Elac DBR-62. They were even cheaper than my older (and wayy worse) Bose Computer Monitor, not counting the amplifier... Also the only justification i needed was my rather large collection of DVDs, Blurays and CDs.

Amplifier is a choice based on my needs. Small footprint, low power consumption - only 16 watts, nothing way too fancy). SNR 105db, THD 81,5 which is more than enough for my needs.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: Jedi Mind Trick
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top