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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys, I've bought the parts and mounted a new PC for work, and after starting it I set the Boost Ratio of all cores to 5.1 GHz and it worked ok (I'll put hardware above text), I tested stress tests on Intel XTU. But when I installed Revit 2021 (uses AVX) and started rendering on it, the computer started crashing (blue screens). Finally I did get a voltage to Vcore which doesn't blue screen the PC: VCC: 1,34V with LLC 1 (it increases voltage with heavy works) and gets 1,37V when on heavy works.

But my problem is: temps are getting too high!! I be tried use AVX Offset -1 on BIOS and even though it didn't help (see the image attached).

What should I do?

PC Specs:

  • Core i7 10700k
  • Cooler Master ML240L V2
  • MSI Z490-A PRO
  • 2x 8GB PNY XLR8 3200MHz CL16
  • Asus GTX 970 Strix @ 1.5GHz
  • Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

Temps:

2490064
 

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Does the system still blue screen during that work load at Default bios settings?
 

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What kind of CPU cooler and thermal paste are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Does the system still blue screen during that work load at Default bios settings?
No, it doesn't, if I run it at default it doesn't crash.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What kind of CPU cooler and thermal paste are you using?
I'm using the Cooler Master Masterliquid ML240L V2 and the paste is Cooler Master MasterGel Maker
 

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Everything looks right. I don't see any issues. Your 240mm AIO is reaching its limit with a CPU package power of 221w. I think you are limited by silicon quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Everything looks right. I don't see any issues. Your 240mm AIO is reaching its limit with a CPU package power of 221w. I think you are limited by silicon quality.
That's sad to know. Do you think can I damage the motherboard running the CPU at this temperature? Or damage the CPU itself?
 

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I think the thermal limit is 120c or 125c. The cores will throttle at 100C. 90F is fine for benching. My guess is your CPu won’t see more than 80C during normal use anyway. For reference, I used to bench my 10700K at 95C in Prime95 with AVX2 on at 5.4ghz with a CPU package power of 330w. That didn’t damage my CPU. However, it randomly degraded from 5.4 to 5.1 overnight in December during normal use. This is most likely from me the PCB flexing from removing the heat spreader and running it direct-die. The CPU has continued to run direct die 24/7 since it degraded to 5.1 with no further issues or degradation. As long as you keep the heat spreader on the CPU you shouldn’t have any issues. You definitely won’t damage the motherboard since it’s designed to handle a 10 core CPU and you have an 8 core.

My 10700k has been through all kinds of abuse and it still runs.
2490079
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think the thermal limit is 120c or 125c. The cores will throttle at 100C. 90F is fine for benching. My guess is your CPu won’t see more than 80C during normal use anyway. For reference, I used to bench my 10700K at 95C in Prime95 with AVX2 on at 5.4ghz with a CPU package power of 330w. That didn’t damage my CPU. However, it randomly degraded from 5.4 to 5.1 overnight in December during normal use. This is most likely from me the PCB flexing from removing the heat spreader and running it direct-die. The CPU has continued to run direct die 24/7 since it degraded to 5.1 with no further issues or degradation. As long as you keep the heat spreader on the CPU you shouldn’t have any issues. You definitely won’t damage the motherboard since it’s designed to handle a 10 core CPU and you have an 8 core.
Thanks for this answer. Allow me ask you one more question, please: do you think this 10700k may degrade and I might not be reaching the 5.1GHz anymore with time?

And in normal use the CPU reaches at maximum 75°C. It only passes it when running AVX, and I'll do it when rendering on Revit. Revit is a softwares used for making 3D designs of buildings by Arquitects and Engeneers, in that cases it reaches 95°C or more depending on the ambient temperature here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think the thermal limit is 120c or 125c. The cores will throttle at 100C. 90F is fine for benching. My guess is your CPu won’t see more than 80C during normal use anyway. For reference, I used to bench my 10700K at 95C in Prime95 with AVX2 on at 5.4ghz with a CPU package power of 330w. That didn’t damage my CPU. However, it randomly degraded from 5.4 to 5.1 overnight in December during normal use. This is most likely from me the PCB flexing from removing the heat spreader and running it direct-die. The CPU has continued to run direct die 24/7 since it degraded to 5.1 with no further issues or degradation. As long as you keep the heat spreader on the CPU you shouldn’t have any issues. You definitely won’t damage the motherboard since it’s designed to handle a 10 core CPU and you have an 8 core.

My 10700k has been through all kinds of abuse and it still runs.
View attachment 2490079
That temperatures I show at the beginning wasn't from benchs, it was a render on Revit running (it's very heavy, it heats the same as Cinebench R20).
 

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Thanks for this answer. Allow me ask you one more question, please: do you think this 10700k may degrade and I might not be reaching the 5.1GHz anymore with time?

And in normal use the CPU reaches at maximum 75°C. It only passes it when running AVX, and I'll do it when rendering on Revit. Revit is a softwares used for making 3D designs of buildings by Arquitects and Engeneers, in that cases it reaches 95°C or more depending on the ambient temperature here.
That temperatures I show at the beginning wasn't from benchs, it was a render on Revit running (it's very heavy, it heats the same as Cinebench R20).
I personally would not feel comfortable running a CPU (that I cared about) above 80C for long periods of time. I am comfortable with 70-80 for extended use, 80-90 for up to 1-2 hours a week or 90-100C for short term benching. That said, I have not heard of anyone except myself degrading a Comet Lake CPU. And it was not from thermal stress, it was from either the mounting pressure of direct die, the constant removal and replacement of the heat spreader, and/or from sanding the die until nearly reaching the core.
 

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Finally I did get a voltage to Vcore which doesn't blue screen the PC: VCC: 1,34V with LLC 1 (it increases voltage with heavy works) and gets 1,37V when on heavy works.
This is almost certainly going to result in more load voltage required and more heat than what can be stabilized with a higher VID setting and less agressive LLC. Generally, you want a modest amount of vdroop.

Regardless, 5.1GHz all-core is a tall order without better cooling.
 

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Optimal Pessimist
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That seems about right for your,voltage (which is pretty high), frequency and AVX and the resulting power draw. You will need to either reduce your voltage if you can, lower your frequency expectations, get a better cooling solution, delid, or some combination of these. I would first try and see if you can get it stable at a lower voltage, A better AIO will give you marginal gains, a custom loop more. deliding will get you a few degrees, maybe 3 to 5c. I would use AVX offset of 0, and AVX offset doesn't really benefit you as it will almost always activate. Better off just lowering your maximum frequency. Also, if your board BIOS supports it, you can lower your effective Tmax from 100 to, say, 80 or 85. Throttling at TJmax works well - that way, if say you have TjMax set 80., when a core passes80, the processor will lower the frequency to keep the temperature below 80.

Running at those temperatures with a high duty cycle will degrade your cpu and it will eventually die, but not for a while, can't tell you how long but it would take some time that may be acceptable.

This is what you get on an 8 core, hyper-threaded, 14nm CPU running AVX loads.
 

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That temperatures I show at the beginning wasn't from benchs, it was a render on Revit running (it's very heavy, it heats the same as Cinebench R20).
I think that you would be best off to lower voltages and expectations, AVX2 workloads are heavy and since you are using the CPU for production purposes, stability and longevity is far more important than some max OC at 5.1Ghz. Realistically, lowering the clocks and voltage isn't going to slow you down in a meaningful way, bluescreen's while rendering do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I personally would not feel comfortable running a CPU (that I cared about) above 80C for long periods of time. I am comfortable with 70-80 for extended use, 80-90 for up to 1-2 hours a week or 90-100C for short term benching. That said, I have not heard of anyone except myself degrading a Comet Lake CPU. And it was not from thermal stress, it was from either the mounting pressure of direct die, the constant removal and replacement of the heat spreader, and/or from sanding the die until nearly reaching the core.
I think you're right. When rendering with room's AC turned on the temps are like 70-80°C with pikes on 90°C. Do you think that's ok for longevity oh the CPU or should I lower the clock?

On activities which doesn't require AVX the CPU always is under 80°C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is almost certainly going to result in more load voltage required and more heat than what can be stabilized with a higher VID setting and less agressive LLC. Generally, you want a modest amount of vdroop.

Regardless, 5.1GHz all-core is a tall order without better cooling.
If I use a LLC with a curve higher the 1 I get blue screen. Do you have a suggestion for me, please?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That seems about right for your,voltage (which is pretty high), frequency and AVX and the resulting power draw. You will need to either reduce your voltage if you can, lower your frequency expectations, get a better cooling solution, delid, or some combination of these. I would first try and see if you can get it stable at a lower voltage, A better AIO will give you marginal gains, a custom loop more. deliding will get you a few degrees, maybe 3 to 5c. I would use AVX offset of 0, and AVX offset doesn't really benefit you as it will almost always activate. Better off just lowering your maximum frequency. Also, if your board BIOS supports it, you can lower your effective Tmax from 100 to, say, 80 or 85. Throttling at TJmax works well - that way, if say you have TjMax set 80., when a core passes80, the processor will lower the frequency to keep the temperature below 80.

Running at those temperatures with a high duty cycle will degrade your cpu and it will eventually die, but not for a while, can't tell you how long but it would take some time that may be acceptable.

This is what you get on an 8 core, hyper-threaded, 14nm CPU running AVX loads.
I've tried lowering Vcore, but it didn't get stable. I'll try your idea of lowering Tjmax when I come home from work.
 

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I think you're right. When rendering with room's AC turned on the temps are like 70-80°C with pikes on 90°C. Do you think that's ok for longevity oh the CPU or should I lower the clock?

On activities which doesn't require AVX the CPU always is under 80°C.
5.1 all avx workloads is asking a lot for a 10700k/9900k.

I would drop down to 5.0ghz all core avx 0 and see what you get or 5.1 with an offset at a minimum and see where you land. It's one thing if your CPU is primarily being used for gaming and medium to light loads daily, but your workflow is avx all core heavy so you will need to adjust your expectations accordingly.

If you're sticking with a 240 AIO (assuming no room for a 280), I would switch to an Arctic.

Maybe bump up your thermal paste solution.

And there's always a mix of the silicon lottery too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That seems about right for your,voltage (which is pretty high), frequency and AVX and the resulting power draw. You will need to either reduce your voltage if you can, lower your frequency expectations, get a better cooling solution, delid, or some combination of these. I would first try and see if you can get it stable at a lower voltage, A better AIO will give you marginal gains, a custom loop more. deliding will get you a few degrees, maybe 3 to 5c. I would use AVX offset of 0, and AVX offset doesn't really benefit you as it will almost always activate. Better off just lowering your maximum frequency. Also, if your board BIOS supports it, you can lower your effective Tmax from 100 to, say, 80 or 85. Throttling at TJmax works well - that way, if say you have TjMax set 80., when a core passes80, the processor will lower the frequency to keep the temperature below 80.

Running at those temperatures with a high duty cycle will degrade your cpu and it will eventually die, but not for a while, can't tell you how long but it would take some time that may be acceptable.

This is what you get on an 8 core, hyper-threaded, 14nm CPU running AVX loads.
My motherboard does have an option for lowering Tjmax, but just 90ºC and above. I'll set it to 90ºC then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
5.1 all avx workloads is asking a lot for a 10700k/9900k.

I would drop down to 5.0ghz all core avx 0 and see what you get or 5.1 with an offset at a minimum and see where you land. It's one thing if your CPU is primarily being used for gaming and medium to light loads daily, but your workflow is avx all core heavy so you will need to adjust your expectations accordingly.

If you're sticking with a 240 AIO (assuming no room for a 280), I would switch to an Arctic.

Maybe bump up your thermal paste solution.

And there's always a mix of the silicon lottery too.
Maybe I'll do it. Today I was here using the Revit 2021 one more time and testing some rendering, then I got blue screen, and I've being testing configuration for working with this software and the only configuration I could get it didn't blue screen was setting Vcore to 1,365V and using LLC 3 on BIOS. That's what I got:

2490207


For some reason temps got better since yesterday. My concern is: will the CPU be damaged for running with this Vcore? Or is it okay? I remember that the default Vcore this mobo set was 1,378V, and I don't know why it was so high.
 
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