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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
nvidia's RTX 4090 announcement video shows it performs at 22fps in 4K with Ray Tracing enabled and DLSS disabled.
However,
The RTX 3090 performs 23fps under the same conditions, as you can see here:-
It seems that the performance increase of the RTX 4090 is due to the improvement of DLSS 3, not raster performance.
Therefore will there be an improvement in non DLSS games?
Personally I do not enable DLSS as it softens and blurs images at 4K.
What do you guyz think?
 
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They did show some benchmarks from raster games like Valhalla, Village and etc and gains vs 3090 Ti are 50-70%, so there definitely are gains, though the average is not going to be as high as 2x like it was rumored. Though it is important to mention that the rumors were against 3090, not Ti, so the gain vs 3090 vanilla is like 80%. Close enough I guess. This is what I was predicting personally, 2x was a bit too optimistic, but 80% over 3090 sounds about right all things considered.

The video that you posted is an old build and completely different place and time, so it is not comparable really. It is a bit odd that the non-DLSS performance was so low, but it is from yet unreleased game build, so maybe there are some changes and additions to the ray tracing in that build. Other settings could differ as well. You cannot compare it like that.

Current expectation is about 66% average raster gain over 3090 Ti, so around 80% over 3090, and ray tracing slightly over 2x.
 

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That build of cyberpunk has way more path tracing, which means it's not comparable to older builds.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think whatever was running at 24fps was not a 4090.
The caption under the video "*Captured with GeForce RTX 4090 at 3840 x 2160, New Ray Tracing: Overdrive Mode, DLSS 3, pre-release build. " clearly states it's a 4090
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
They did show some benchmarks from raster games like Valhalla, Village and etc and gains vs 3090 Ti are 50-70%, so there definitely are gains, though the average is not going to be as high as 2x like it was rumored. Though it is important to mention that the rumors were against 3090, not Ti, so the gain vs 3090 vanilla is like 80%. Close enough I guess. This is what I was predicting personally, 2x was a bit too optimistic, but 80% over 3090 sounds about right all things considered.

The video that you posted is an old build and completely different place and time, so it is not comparable really. It is a bit odd that the non-DLSS performance was so low, but it is from yet unreleased game build, so maybe there are some changes and additions to the ray tracing in that build. Other settings could differ as well. You cannot compare it like that.

Current expectation is about 66% average raster gain over 3090 Ti, so around 80% over 3090, and ray tracing slightly over 2x.
Yes they did show a comparison but it was with DLSS enabled.
I want to know what is the difference with DLSS disabled as I do not like the softened and sometimes blurry image DLSS causes.
 

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Cant compare because this is a different game build with more RT.
 
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DLSS3 really is interesting, i hope AMD has something comparable to show off. I personally always use DLSS or FSR when available since i play at native 4k and ultra quality dlss looks as good if not better than native with better fps so its a win win. DLSS3 having frame interpolation for essentially free frames will be super nice for titles that are cpu bound like flight sim which they showed to get much higher framerates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
DLSS3 really is interesting, i hope AMD has something comparable to show off. I personally always use DLSS or FSR when available since i play at native 4k and ultra quality dlss looks as good if not better than native with better fps so its a win win. DLSS3 having frame interpolation for essentially free frames will be super nice for titles that are cpu bound like flight sim which they showed to get much higher framerates.
I find that DLSS makes softens the images in the foreground and blurs the background images as I have discussed at length here:
By using nvidia's own publication you can clearly see the blurriness.

As you have stated "free frames", may I add that these are actually false frames as they are not computed by the game engine. I like real leather not that faux leather rubbish!

As for AMD's FSR, I have never used it, but if AMD's new cards have better game engine performance without FSR if its not blurry like DLSS then I will switch to AMD
 

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I find that DLSS makes softens the images in the foreground and blurs the background images as I have discussed at length here:
By using nvidia's own publication you can clearly see the blurriness.

As you have stated "free frames", may I add that these are actually false frames as they are not computed by the game engine. I like real leather not that faux leather rubbish!

As for AMD's FSR, I have never used it, but if AMD's new cards have better game engine performance without FSR if its not blurry like DLSS then I will switch to AMD
Jury is still out for how well DLSS3 intermediate frames will play out in action, however ****ting on DLSS 1.0 from BFV and how bad it looked then isn't really fair now is it?
 

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DLSS has improved a lot through it's various incarnations. I still prefer native, because DLSS still costs detail in areas it doesn't specifically preserve/enhance, but the better modern DLSS implementations are often worth the trade offs, if performance isn't quite there without it. Same goes for FSR; 1.x was extremely situational, but FSR 2.1 is actually worth using in a lot of cases.

I expect DLSS 3.x to have major teething issues, and for it to be even more situational, but I do expect it, or something very much like it, to be worth using, eventually.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
DLSS3 really is interesting, i hope AMD has something comparable to show off. I personally always use DLSS or FSR when available since i play at native 4k and ultra quality dlss looks as good if not better than native with better fps so its a win win. DLSS3 having frame interpolation for essentially free frames will be super nice for titles that are cpu bound like flight sim which they showed to get much higher framerates.
Interpolation softens the picture quality and can introduce blur, that is why an upscaled image can never be as sharp as the original and if it does have more detail then that detail is noise.
Nothing beats the original image!
 
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DLSS3 really is interesting, i hope AMD has something comparable to show off. I personally always use DLSS or FSR when available since i play at native 4k and ultra quality dlss looks as good if not better than native with better fps so its a win win. DLSS3 having frame interpolation for essentially free frames will be super nice for titles that are cpu bound like flight sim which they showed to get much higher framerates.
I'm mixed on DLSS. Tried it in Control the other day and it definitely made some stuff worse and others better. It seems highly variable.
 

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Nvidia will never have actual raw performance, they lean way too much towards weird vaseline like filters that look awful for the sake of more fps. I completely understand though if a 4090 cannot even archive 30+ fps when it's off. It's actually hilariously bad.
 

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I'm mixed on DLSS. Tried it in Control the other day and it definitely made some stuff worse and others better. It seems highly variable.
I feel like NVidia Image Sharpening gave me a tremendous advantage from 2020 until DLSS 2.0 became mainstream. My Modern Warfare KD tanked after DLSS 2.0 became an easy toggle for everyone and their grandma.
 

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It certainly seems like the 3090 is an enticing buy compared to the 4080s. More RAM that's faster, and more CUDA cores.

The only reason I'm not pulling the trigger on a 3090 is because I'm interested in seeing what AMD can bring to the table, especially in ray tracing tech.

I eventually went to get something for my 4k living room setup for Cyberpunk.
 

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I'm mixed on DLSS. Tried it in Control the other day and it definitely made some stuff worse and others better. It seems highly variable.
It's definitely hit or miss, and depends on how old the game is and what version of DLSS its using. You can replace the DLSS .dll for most games with the latest version and likely see improvements
 

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It's definitely hit or miss, and depends on how old the game is and what version of DLSS its using. You can replace the DLSS .dll for most games with the latest version and likely see improvements
You do not need to do this anymore. Nvidia themselves said it on Reddit with newer drivers they do the update of the corresponding DLSS accordingly.

Megathread - From NVIDIA DLSS 2.3 To NVIDIA Image Scaling: NVIDIA’s Full Stack Of Scaling Solutions For Gamers : nvidia (reddit.com)
 
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