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Discussion Starter #1
Guru3D review of the GTX1080 painted an interesting picture of the old kings

See here

Its personally relevant to me, as I only upgrade many years apart.

Most likely irrelevant to those who upgrade every year. But here it is:



Lets see how the 900 series stacks up 3 years from now

cheers
 

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Nope. The stock 290X was a mess due to stock cooling throttling the card. Aftermarket to aftermarket was more apt comparison and there the 290X was within margin of error
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage101 View Post

Wasn't the 780Ti 10-15% faster than the 290X on launch?
yeah Around 10% compared to reference cooled card, when Maxwell was released Nvidia just crippled the card drivers on purpose to make a bigger gap and force kepler owners to upgrade

now a R9 280x is as fast as a 780 and the r9 290 is almostas fast or faster than a 780ti
 

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Sad for the 780Ti, is it really about "bad" drivers ? Also Nvidia, why "only" 3 Gigs of RAM on such a beast ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

stock 780 ti benchmarked?

yup... therefore irrelevant results
all OC are different thus he did not OC the card. Stock are use as a reference since all cards are capable of reaching it.

but this is nice to see that these cards are still doing pretty good even if its at 1080p
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by clao View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

stock 780 ti benchmarked?

yup... therefore irrelevant results
all OC are different thus he did not OC the card. Stock are use as a reference since all cards are capable of reaching it.

but this is nice to see that these cards are still doing pretty good even if its at 1080p
you buy a card that does what 920 mhz at stock..... yet when pushed a little gets to 1400-1500 mhz 0.o you don't run it at stock...

when you are dealing with Kepler -> maxwell, and a launch clock of 1300+ and boosting to 1600+ not getting much more beyond that, Nvidia has already done much of the overclock already.

if the 780 ti was launched as close to its limit as the 970 was, the 780 ti number would be alot higher. Hence the reason these results are irrelevant.

not hard to poll 3d mark for the most popular OC ranges for these cards. but then it would defeat the point of the article because depending on the situation all three will be within %'s of each other in single digits and at higher resolutions with proper overclocks the 970 does fall behind.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

you buy a card that does what 920 mhz at stock..... yet when pushed a little gets to 1400-1500 mhz 0.o you don't run it at stock...

when you are dealing with Kepler -> maxwell, and a launch clock of 1300+ and boosting to 1600+ not getting much more beyond that, Nvidia has already done much of the overclock already.

if the 780 ti was launched as close to its limit as the 970 was, the 780 ti number would be alot higher. Hence the reason these results are irrelevant.

not hard to poll 3d mark for the most popular OC ranges for these cards. but then it would defeat the point of the article because depending on the situation all three will be within %'s of each other in single digits and at higher resolutions with proper overclocks the 970 does fall behind.
Are you saying a 780ti gets to 1400-1500 when "pushed" or have I misunderstood? I may have a faulty memory but I recall is was more like upper 1200's on air and upper 1300's on water at best.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanners View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

you buy a card that does what 920 mhz at stock..... yet when pushed a little gets to 1400-1500 mhz 0.o you don't run it at stock...

when you are dealing with Kepler -> maxwell, and a launch clock of 1300+ and boosting to 1600+ not getting much more beyond that, Nvidia has already done much of the overclock already.

if the 780 ti was launched as close to its limit as the 970 was, the 780 ti number would be alot higher. Hence the reason these results are irrelevant.

not hard to poll 3d mark for the most popular OC ranges for these cards. but then it would defeat the point of the article because depending on the situation all three will be within %'s of each other in single digits and at higher resolutions with proper overclocks the 970 does fall behind.
Are you saying a 780ti gets to 1400-1500 when "pushed" or have a misunderstood? I may have a faulty memory but I recall is was more like upper 1200's on air and upper 1300's on water at best.
most cards from AIB partners with a 1ghz+ base clock boosted to almost 1200 out of the box...

1300mhz was possible as a daily clock under an NZXT G10 + h110 in push with under volted fans. (on a lowly Zotac factory OC on a reference pcb)

http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/gpu/fs/P/908/500000?minScore=0&gpuName=NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti


atleast half the page is 1300mhz+ with more than one card. quite a few are at 1400+
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The point was to compare the performance you get from old stock cards on recent games.

But now that you bring overcloking into the table, the 290X can be overclocked also. And bios modded.

If you slap a modded bios on the 290X and run it @ 1050mhz, check those charts for the 390X and thats the position you would get.

If you raise the clocks a bit more to only 1150 mhz you get 14346 graphics score http://www.3dmark.com/fs/7825736 Between the Fury and Fury X. Its 3 years old in October.

Its just very curious to see how stagnant the 780ti got with time compared to when it was released. The 780 ti @ 1300mhz would still be behind mine in a good portion of those charts today.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

Sad for the 780Ti, is it really about "bad" drivers ? Also Nvidia, why "only" 3 Gigs of RAM on such a beast ?
about driver which hasnt been improved or reduced its performance
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

stock 780 ti benchmarked?

yup... therefore irrelevant results
So uhhh.. what about the fact that all those cards can overclock and every card is different? Even a huge OC on a 780ti isn't going to make up for the clear difference on many of those results. I'd be upset too like you if I bought a 780ti especially at the price they were.

**looks at my cheaper more vram having launch day 290x w/ battlefield 4 bundled card and grins**
tongue.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Introducing overclocked cards into benchmarks may be the single biggest Nvidia accomplishment up until 2010/2011 (it managed to convince anandtech to do it when their products where being stomped by amd, and it propagated throughout the industry. Every one complained, but time took care of the rest, and people got numb to it).

Overclocked cards should be compared with overclocked cards, with the clear and visible disclaimer that MILEAGE WILL VARY.

Up until 6 months ago, you would see many reviews with the 980ti designation when in fact its was very highly overclocked model. It was unethical and today "some" websites are indeed labeling the cards correctly into their reviews (i.e gigabyte G1 extreme super clocked whatever). Still, the reference model should always exist in every review.
 

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Nvidia cards are only good while they are the latest. once a new architecture comes Nvidia neglects driver optimizations for the old cards. The same story happened to Fermi and Kepler and soon it will happen to Maxwell. The newer the game the higher the gap between the 970 and the 780 Ti .
This is why I don't recommend any Nvidia cards to anybody if they plan to keep the cards for a few years. If you switch every generation you are gonna be okay.
 

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Do Nvidia even realize money don't come from trees ? i mean for many people, a high end card is one month salary, duh !
 

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If your salary is worth one high end card, you shouldn't be getting that card. This is how market works. They aren't catering to people who only earn XXX. Some people have that disposable income and do like to splurge on things that average joe would / will / can not
 

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Sometimes people say that this is Nvidia gimping their cards, but the actual studies of drivers over time seem to show the opposite, the drivers marginally improve over time. On the other hand on average AMD's cards seem to gain quite a lot of performance over time and in certain (normally AAA well benchmarked games) they gain dramatically.

This phenomenon is often referred to as the "bad" AMD drivers. For as long as I can remember AMD has on paper been putting out cards that are substantially better at the same price point in raw specs, but on day 1 of a games release its almost always sitting there below Nvidia and seriously underperforming its raw specs. 6 months later however that game will be running better on AMD hardware sometimes by a substantial margin. As we come to the end of the life of the cards the AMD advantage is more in line with the specs of the card. New games still often cause AMD grief but the end of life of their cards is substantially higher performance than the beginning. I have been seeing this for near on a decade it in many ways is really quite weird.

While many forums can't have a discussion about the impact of drivers and certainly over time it does seem to be a major difference between the two vendors. Nvidia seems to get the most out of their hardware right away and it stays that way and their cards just perform well in all scenarios, if you go play and old game it'll run like it ought to on a modern super fast GPU almost like Nvidia had optimsied that game. On AMD however you'll struggle early on with performance, games on day 1 will underperform where they should be and fixes will roll out over the months. Eventually AMD will end up performing better and often considerably. The two approaches seem to favour different types of gamers. If you play games much after they are released, buying them on sales and such then AMD is going to be much better performance/$. If you play games day 1 then Nvidia is going to do better.

What I suspect is also now happening is that DX12 is showing to be a little different. AMD is getting more out of their hardware upfront and as a result might perform closer to their raw apparent specs than with DX11. Its far too early to tell if this is how it'll work in practice but the suggestion is there. It might change the market completely and hand a substantial advantage to AMD simply by delivering their hardware performance from day 1 and changing the market for drivers utterly.

I think its an interesting topic with only small sporadic reviews chipping into this area, its not all that well investigated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzug View Post

If your salary is worth one high end card, you shouldn't be getting that card. This is how market works. They aren't catering to people who only earn XXX. Some people have that disposable income and do like to splurge on things that average joe would / will / can not
I would have no problem paying that much money, only if a reasonable part of it goes to the workers in factories that actually build these for us. I'm asking, where all that money goes ? what is the price Nvidia is paying for a card out of factory? My thought is shareholders are dam hungry...
 

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Yes but then at that point you could fill any company with the blanks and not just Nvidia. If you really want to make a difference, associating yourself with group that cater to such issues. Raising them here on OCN is an fruitless venture where people appreciate and come to enjoy new tech.
 
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