The Truth about AGP

1389 Views 25 Replies 11 Participants Last post by jtypin, Oct 31, 2008

dlee7283

Discussion Starter · Oct 30, 2008

ok here is a scenerio, my friend use to dog AGP after PCI Express came out so much that I refused to use it again and I wondering If I should have listened to him.

You have a AGP 8X Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB,256 bit
Then you have a PCI-E Radeon X600 with 256 MB, 128 bit

They are both the from the same architecture core line

Would the 9800 beat the PCI Express Card? I use to think anything that was PCI Express always beat AGP

Also when did PCI Express x16 have cards that used its full bandwidth?

Does PCI Express 2.0 even use it's yet?

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murderbymodem

· #2 · Oct 30, 2008

Why not just get a better PCI-Express card than the x600?
there are many great PCI-E cards that can be had for around $30...I was very happy with my old Radeon x1650 I bought and used while I was in between cards, very good card for the price.

As for your question, I would assume the extra bandwidth of PCI-E and extra memory on the x600 help more than 128-bit compared to 256-bit on the 9800, because most of the cheaper PCI-E x16 cards I see are only 128-bit. (Like the x1650 I mentioned above.)

dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 30, 2008

Nvidia 7800 GS AGP for example will beat a PCI X600 by up to 3 times more in a game like Quake 4 I found out. My friend was acting like PCI Express always beat AGP's no matter what.

I am glad I don't rely on his knowledge anymore

murderbymodem

· #4 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlee7283

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but the x600 will beat a 8400 GS that is 64 bit even though it has a core thats like 2 generations older.

Well obviously 64-bit is trash and I would never ever buy a 64-bit videocard, but maybe the difference between 128-bit and 256-bit may not be as large? (and before anyone says anything, I know 128 is half of 256 and 64 is half of 128, I meant the difference while in use, not the actual math

)

I'm not exactly sure, but I would still have gone with PCI-E for future upgrade-ability. You can always use the x600 while you save up money, and then buy a PCI-E card that is 256-bit and has more memory than the 9800....

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darksideleader

· #5 · Oct 30, 2008

if i remember correctly, all the x600 was a 9600XT with pci-express support.
So we got a 9800PRO vs. 9600XT, obvious which one the winner is. Even though the x600 has double to slot bandwith avaible to use, it can't possible use all that bandwith so the 9800PRO AGP is the clear winner.

The whole reason why the companies went with PCI-express is more bandwith for future cards and you can have more than one PCI-express graphics card unlike AGP.

Reactions: 1

murderbymodem

· #6 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by darksideleader

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if i remember correctly, all the x600 was a 9600XT with pci-express support.
So we got a 9800PRO vs. 9600XT, obvious which one the winner is. Even though the x600 has double to slot bandwith avaible to use, it can't possible use all that bandwith so the 9800PRO AGP is the clear winner.

The whole reason why the companies went with PCI-express is more bandwith for future cards and you can have more than one PCI-express graphics card unlike AGP.

Oh?
This is good to know. I hadn't heard of the x600 at all before this post, I started getting into PCs while the x800s were around

But still, I would have listened to your friend and went with PCI-E since you can always upgrade to a much better card later. With AGP these days, your options for a really good videocard are severely limited.

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dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by darksideleader

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if i remember correctly, all the x600 was a 9600XT with pci-express support.
So we got a 9800PRO vs. 9600XT, obvious which one the winner is. Even though the x600 has double to slot bandwith avaible to use, it can't possible use all that bandwith so the 9800PRO AGP is the clear winner.

The whole reason why the companies went with PCI-express is more bandwith for future cards and you can have more than one PCI-express graphics card unlike AGP.

I'd give you rep 3 if possible.

See my friend who taught me about computers always dogged AGP after PCI Express came out and after I recieved a new 9800 PRO in a computer trade he dogged it for being AGP alone.

This angers me because I ended up using the x600 because he had me on such a highorse on PCI Express during the early days, now I wouldnt use AGP of course, but it would have been nice to use that card instead of the x600 when Doom 3 came out.

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ericeod

· #8 · Oct 30, 2008

In all honesty, when PCI-E first came out, video cards were still not able to max out AGP 8X. Once the video cards matured a little, they were able to utilize the PCI-E bandwidth. So it really comes down to the cards themselves and not whether it is AGP or PCI-E (obviously this isn't the case anymore as cards are now pushing past the PCI-E 1.1 standard).

jtypin

· #9 · Oct 30, 2008

You should not be dogged for AGP, they really all end up doing the same thing. Giving you a picture on that monitor of you'res NOW with that said, you cannot really compare a x600 vs. a 8800GTX SSC but you can compare it to a 9800PRO or a x800 is you want to be that way, AGP was just good for it's time but now with 2GB on some of the cards AGP just cannot transfer it quick enough, so therefore we use PCI-e 2.0/x16

dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 30, 2008

well my computer friend is sort of an elitist, he always has to have better than you, everytime i upgraded he would later on spend more money to outdue me. He taught me all about computers and is still my freind, but it got on my nerves after a while

My current build beats his except for the video card (he uses the 9800GT). He claims he doesnt have the money to upgrade but i use to have less money to upgrade. I have a feeling since I told him I got a Core 2 he is going to buy a Quad very soon.

My other friend Craig, who I taught actually, has the best built of us three and hates my elitist friend, he spent 1400 dollars so my elitist friend can't say anything in his computer is better unless he wants to spend that much, which he won't since he will never spend more than 700 on an upgrade since I have known him,

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lokster

· #11 · Oct 30, 2008

lol i think we all have such friends trying to 1up in terms of computer and tech knowledge.

but AGP nowadays is pretty hard and expensive to upgrade, i tried to upgrade only to find out that the voltages werent the same on the card and on the mobo lol. anyway ive come a long way really fast and im pretty proud of it. you should be proud of your kickass desktop i see on ur sig rig

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jtypin

· #12 · Oct 30, 2008

Lokster, are you planning on getting a second 4670 once the prices drop when the 4830 comes out? heh i am just asking.

dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtypin

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Lokster, are you planning on getting a second 4670 once the prices drop when the 4830 comes out? heh i am just asking.

jtypin, you poor man

your using GMA graphics?

If you have a PCI-e slot I have a 6600GT that I can send you if you pay postage.

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Reactions: 2

Mygaffer

· #14 · Oct 30, 2008

The truth about AGP? As long as you don't saturate the bandwidth available there is NO difference between an AGP card and PCI-E!!

Think about it, both buses provide a certain amount of bandwidth to your video card. If your video card is not capable of utilizing that bandwidth then it doesn't matter if you have 1Gbit/sec or 1000Gbit/sec the card will perform exactly the same.

Think about PCI-E 1.0 vs. 2.0. 2.0 provides a lot more bandwidth but only recent cards can even use that bandwidth. You can go search for articles testing different cards on the pci-e 1 and 2.0 slots and the performance difference was just not there.

Hope this helps, also make sure to tell your friend how wrong he was!

Really I wouldn't get too upset about your friend, I know people like that and usually they have some deep insecurities that motivate their behavior.

Also, you should have kept your 9800 Pro, it was much better than the x600

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Blameless

· #15 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlee7283

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They are both the from the same architecture core line

No they aren't.

The 9800Pro uses the R350, while the X600XT use the R380.

The 9800Pro has twice the pixel pipelines and shaders, and doubt the width on the memory interface.

Anyway, at the speeds of these two cards, PCI-E vs. AGP is almost totally irrelevant.

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dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #16 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

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No they aren't.

The 9800Pro uses the R350, while the X600XT use the R380.

The 9800Pro has twice the pixel pipelines and shaders, and doubt the width on the memory interface.

Anyway, at the speeds of these two cards, PCI-E vs. AGP is almost totally irrelevant.

sorry i really meant to say the R300 generation.

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S.M.

· #17 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlee7283

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Nvidia 7800 GS AGP for example will beat a PCI X600 by up to 3 times more in a game like Quake 4 I found out. My friend was acting like PCI Express always beat AGP's no matter what.

I am glad I don't rely on his knowledge anymore

That's because a 7800GS is a totally better, more technologically advanced card in general than the x600. Regardless of interface...

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dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.M.

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That's because a 7800GS is a totally better, more technologically advanced card in general than the x600. Regardless of interface...

Well i know that now because of the great people here, I just am mad I bought into the PCI Express hype way to early, especially when I had a card sitting in my closet that ran Doom 3 better than the one I was using.

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lokster

· #19 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtypin

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Lokster, are you planning on getting a second 4670 once the prices drop when the 4830 comes out? heh i am just asking.

yeah and then ima upgrade my mobo for dual pcie

or i just might get the 4830, i heard 1 card can rule them all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlee7283

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jtypin, you poor man

your using GMA graphics?

If you have a PCI-e slot I have a 6600GT that I can send you if you pay postage.

thats soo nice of u dude.
+rep

as for the AGP vs PCIE no matter how fast when it comes down to upgradability and value PCIE is the way to go, agp will eventually be phased out.

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dlee7283

Discussion Starter · #20 · Oct 30, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokster

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agp will eventually be phased out.

I have a feeling their will be a market for AGP for at least another 2 years, their are millions of computers that still have AGP and there will be a card that comes out for AGP that is good enough to run Crysis on high, but that might be a year from now.

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