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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Silver Kill Coil
A commonly recomended product among watercoolers. It is claimed to prevent organic growth in watercoolingsystems.

We are tempted to call it "trollium X-2000". Those who recomend this product usualy have faith in the effects of silver themselves, so at least they arent intentionaly fooling anyone.

The story behind is that in ancient rome, the wild west and many other cultures silver was used to controll the growth of algae and bacteria in the drinkingwater. That is correct, however silver is more intended against bacteria(ie. E. coli and salmonella) than against algae. Against algae, wich is what you want to prevent, copper is to prefer and copper is a usual material to encounter in a watercoolingsystem.

A definate difference between a cowboys drinkingwater and the water you are using in your watercoolingsystem is the purity. Silver do not disolve in pure water. The destiled water you use however wont stay pure for long. As soon as it comes in contact with air, it will start taking up CO2 and become slightly sour. Some silver will then disolve , but in wery low consentrations and likely not enough to have any effect.

Are there any documented evidence that silver prevents organic growth in a watercoolingsystem? No, absolutely nothing. On any forum you will find users that claims to have good experiences with silver and those that claims that it doesnt have any effect at all.

For organic growth to occur you have to have mocroorganisms present in your watercoolingsystem. If you use new and unused components and only destiled water you can get a watercoolingsystem that is free of organic growth. You may also use silver, but the absence of organic growth should be because of the absence of microorganisms and not the precense of silver.

What about galvanic corrosion, will silver represent a danger in any way? Those that side with silver will say that there is no danger and show to the galvanic table. The galvanic table only aplies to metals that are in contact with eachother, and will therefore be unrelevant. For 2 metals submerged in electrolysis(coolant) the danger must be evaluated from the Standard Electrode Potential. On this table silver is far away from other metals such as aluminum, chrome, nickle and copper.

Copper Sulfate
Copper is like pure poison to algae, in other words it prevents organic growth. 1-2 drops per liter should be enough. The catch is that it makes your coolant conductive and it makes the ideal circumstances for galvanic corrosion, something you definately dont want.

Corporations such as Optishield put a lot of resources into developing additives for water that prevents galvanic corrosion and organic growth in equipment used by military, hospitals, research and industry. Before you chose to use copper sulfate in your watercoolingsystem, ask yourself the question; does the company that produces this know anything Optishield or any other experts know?

EK waterblocks tested 10 different systems. In 3 of the systems they used copper sulfate, and in all 3 there was damage to the waterblock. The remaining 7 contained destiled water, and in all 7 the waterblock was described "as new".

Silver Kill Coil AND Copper Sulfate
If you want to make it extra difficult for yourself, then follow the advice given on many american online stores. "It (IandH Dead-Water Copper Sulfate) can be used alone, or as extra insurance against growth in conjunction with silver killcoils in Pure-silver or other pre-mixed coolants." In other words, first you make the coolant conductive with copper sulfate, then you put a pice of pure silver in the coolant. You might as well sit down and wait for the destruction to become a fact.

"Jožef Stefan" Institute in Slovenia got in to analysis a waterblock that was damaged from use by destiled water and silver kill coil. The recomandation was "Corrosion can be avoided by the use of a low-conducting, anti-corrosion liquid (which, in principle, is also distilled or deionized water).....The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) or the use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger the corrosion processes."

I did not write this, I just translated it(should be relevant to your interests). If you see any obvious translation errors please report back so that I can fix it.
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Which part did you translate? Also, this information has been posted several times since EK's report several months ago, which is where Jožef Stefan brought up these points.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybutcher View Post

Which part did you translate? Also, this information has been posted several times since EK's report several months ago, which is where Jožef Stefan brought up these points.
Everything, and it is not the report from EK, its the item info from a norwegian store for watercooling and components
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source 1
source2
 
So basically what EK and that site is saying is silver ions dont dissolve in distilled, hence silver doesnt work in distilled. But silver ions dissolve in distilled, hence cause corrosion.
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If EK doesnt feel they can mass produce high enough quality plating at a price we would pay to survive the tin/copper/silver ions present in our loops, and prefer us to use corrosion inhibitors to slow the inevitable, then they should just stick with that argument, and not the nonsensical claim that silver ions dont dissolve in our loops, not to mention even EK slovenia report stated they measured silver ions in our loop water they tested...and stated even at low concentration found they would be toxic to algae/bacteria. When EK/site start arguing every point, even ones they know are bull, then they sound like someone arguing on a forum....oh wait...
 
Case A: The water is so pure that silver will not disolve as ions. No algae growth is due to the fact that there was no microorganisms in the water.

If this was true the we would not be using any kind of biocide to begin with.

Case B: The water that we put in our loop do indeed have some contamination in them no mater how hard we try to avoid it. At first the silver will not disolve as ions but as algae and other microorganisms try to grow the water will contaminate further and there for more silver ions will be released killing the microorganisms that try to grow. End result silver keeps your loop free form excessive growth.

I believe in case B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoid.srg View Post

Copper Sulfate
Copper is like pure poison to algae, in other words it prevents organic growth. 1-2 drops per liter should be enough. The catch is that it makes your coolant conductive and it makes the ideal circumstances for galvanic corrosion, something you definately dont want.
Doesn't this happen anyway, since ion transfers from metal in the loop (whether it's copper, nickel, tin, brass, steel, etc...) to the water and make it more conductive? It's also worth noting that only pure water does not conduct electricity, and distilled is NOT the same as pure. Even if you obtain chemically pure water, it becomes impure as soon as it's introduced into the loop, it's almost impossibly easy for this to happen especially where water self-ionizes (though not enough on its own to carry sufficient current to actually do anything).
 
I use just distill water in my Loop and i have been fine for 2 years now.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

I use just distill water in my Loop and i have been fine for 2 years now.
How often do you change your water?
 
hahahah, about halfway through, I scrolled down and read that you translated..... when I continued reading, my mind read it in a German accent LOL
very informative though, first time I've read this.
bottom line, just go LN2
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EDIT: you know what would be totally awesome? cover a whole MB and components in this stuff http://www.liquipel.com/ and just throw it inside your fish tank! O.O

PEOPLE WITH MONEY! TRY THIS NOW! for the good of the community!
 
I read a lot about this before I started with water cooling, some said "you have ti use silver coil" and other said "i've used distiled water only for long time and no problem". I've ended up not using any coil or other additive at all. Oh well, only time will tell if i made the wrong decision.
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I run both copper sulfate and silver coil, yet my EK copper blocks still look as good as new after a year(ish) of continuous use--I check them quite often, too. Personally, I wouldn't trust a thing from EK about their Nickle blocks corroding and flaking, and them pointing the finger at something _other_ than shoddy plating. I mean, of course they aren't going to say their product was/is bad, they want to stay in business... So I can either look at my own blocks, which have had distilled treated with both Copper Sulfate and Silver coil running through them for the past year (ish), and believe the evidence they are providing, or I can believe this... hmmmm... Sorry, but I trust my blocks, and my blocks say those additives are fine.

Also, much of the 'evidence' (if you can even call it that) used for the argument in this article is either made by a company that is having a problem with corrosion on their blocks (due to crappy plating), or a company that sells products which directly compete with both silvercoil and Copper Sulfate treatments. I am sure you can see the problem with the conflict of interest... right? These cannot be reliable sources for this argument because they cannot be fully trusted and are no way near neutral.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Doesn't this happen anyway, since ion transfers from metal in the loop (whether it's copper, nickel, tin, brass, steel, etc...) to the water and make it more conductive? It's also worth noting that only pure water does not conduct electricity, and distilled is NOT the same as pure. Even if you obtain chemically pure water, it becomes impure as soon as it's introduced into the loop, it's almost impossibly easy for this to happen especially where water self-ionizes (though not enough on its own to carry sufficient current to actually do anything).
yep, distilled/deionized water will become conductive in days to weeks at most when exposed to our rads/blocks. This university study measured the rate at which DI water or propylene glycol or mix or mix plus ion scavenging nanoparticles pulled ions from their radiator/pump/tubes. See graph and the rapid increase in conductivity of pure DI water. Adding copper sulphate simply gives you a month or so jump in fluid conductivity. But it is true that corrosion inhibitors as EK wishes will slow rate down somewhat. But even the best ion scavenging nanoparticles plus triazole inhibitors, the fluid still becomes conductive in a few months. But distilled water isnt going to be safe after a week or two in our loops.

And the people using nothing and getting no growth, it is because they were lucky and made it to the first month or 2 without contamination, after that enough copper ions are probably dissolved to prevent growth.

410
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
I never said to anyone that they have to trust my information, that is for you guys to decide. I just translated this as it made so much sence and I thought that it would be relevant to this comunitys interest.
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Im not trying to start a debate, but I might have foresought one coming from posting something like this
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The company that wrote this carries this stuff to warn people, not to profit from it. Only about 3 lines in the OP is from/about EK.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoid.srg View Post

Everything, and it is not the report from EK, its the item info from a norwegian store for watercooling and components
smile.gif

source 1
source2
lol, I called them and asked if they had it a few months ago and they told me they'd look into it. Cool that they bought in some
smile.gif
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoid.srg View Post

I never said to anyone that they have to trust my information, that is for you guys to decide. I just translated this as it made so much sence and I thought that it would be relevant to this comunitys interest.
smile.gif
Im not trying to start a debate, but I might have foresought one coming from posting something like this
biggrin.gif

The company that wrote this carries this stuff to warn people, not to profit from it. Only about 3 lines in the OP is from/about EK.
That company sells EK EN nickel waterblocks, and the wording is exactly what EK is telling everyone. I seriously doubt any sales person or owner of that store somehow came up with all the exact same concepts/wording as EK, plus just happens to sell EK nickel products.

So to me that is EK doing the talking, just via a third party. Ie, that site is simply passing on EK's warning/information that no doubt EK is sending to anyone that sells their blocks.

And no one was arguing with you, glad you posted it for us to read
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If I had to use EK nickel, I would definitely follow their advice and use corrosion inhibitors, but wouldnt be surprised if had issues down the road even following their advice.

But for past 8 years, I have used copper blocks, brass rad, copper sulfate (pt nuke) and that is it, no issues and never expect any. The little bit of black oxidation on copper I clean off in 1 minute with vinegar/salt every 1-2 years.
 
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