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I wouldn’t say the D15 would be undoubtedly better, there are a number of coolers that do just as well if not slightly better than D15
Which ones?

What Owterspace said. While NH-D15 is one of the best it is defitively not the single 'best' cooler. It's just one of many with similar cooling ability. Cooler like Silver Arrow (all varients) Frost Spirit 140, TRUE Spirit 140 Power, Le Grand Macho, Fuma 2, PH-TC14PE, R1 Ultimate, and the list goes one.

Also keep in mind NH-D15 has 1500rpm 140mm fan while many others have 1200-1300rpm fans, and still other have 2500rpm fan/s like Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme & AM4, 1800rpm fan like Silver Arrow T8 or 38mm thick 2000rpm fan like HE01 has.
If a Mugen 5 or FS140 or TS140 with fan replacements can compete with the D15, why even consider the D15? Its more than 2x as expensive.
 

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If a Mugen 5 or FS140 or TS140 with fan replacements can compete with the D15, why even consider the D15? Its more than 2x as expensive.
I often wonder why myself. Frost Spirit 140, TRUE Spirit 140 Power, Le Grand Macho RT all compete or beat D15 with stock fans.

I agree, no reason to pay more money for same cooling. But people do.
 

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Because many people have jumped aboard the hype train. They see a D15 and look at their Arctic or their 212 or whatever and all of a sudden they realize they have been using a steaming pile this whole time. Then they notice the material they use for the fans feels so much nicer than the dog puke they were working with before, same goes for build quality of the cooler itself. Then they notice how much air it moves at the volume it produces and the epiphany is complete. Fortunately there are others that make just as nice of a product at a fair price. You might not get any LNA’s but you can use your motherboard instead. Budget coolers have their place though, I can knock them when people compare them to the big guys but I can’t knock them for their place in the market. I would love to buy that 400 dollar motherboard, but can only afford 250 right now.. same thing. Except I don’t need to build now so I will wait for the 400 dollar one 🤭
 

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I just bought a D15 used instead for 40€
but not everyone wants to go that route.
Just curious what would be the top recommendation for air cooler from you guys. Stock fans, replaced fans, whatever. The Frost Spirit is unfortunately barely available in the EU.

I have been recommending the Esports Duo as a budget option and the D15 for overclocking. The Mugen 5 as a middleground.
Maybe the True Spirit 140 for OC instead?

I am just really curious what would be the best performance/money ratio you can achieve with any of these coolers. its hard to come to a definite conclusion, reviews tend to fluctuate, have 1-2° in favour of one or the other cooler, probably case airflow and different systems playing a role there.
 

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If a Mugen 5 or FS140 or TS140 with fan replacements can compete with the D15, why even consider the D15? Its more than 2x as expensive.
That's kind of a more complicated question than it appears on the surface, and is going to be geographically affected by pricing. Using the US as an example, a Mugen 5 will run you $49, and NH-D15 will be $89, so right about 2X the cost as you stated. Now you need to get that $49 Mugen 5 to match the performance of the D15, so you need fans. The problem here being.....the included Kaze Flex is already a good fan in it's own right, so you need something markedly better with substantially more airflow and adequate SP for the job. The problem being, that isn't a small investment and the noise is going to scale up, as well.

So, you jump on the bandwagon and say "I can get Arctic P12's for $10 each!", but....unfortunately....the P12 doesn't really perform much (if any) better than the Kaze Flex, even with the additional speed, so no matching a D15's performance that way. So you grab yourself some 2150 rpm Darkside GTs, or maybe some EK Vardar F4s at $20+ a pop. You now might match the performance of the stock D15. And you have spent the same amount, have a far louder cooler, and one that is not as nicely made as a D15.

And that is why people consider the D15.
 

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Most reviews using good testing procedures show D15 and Mugen 5 Rev. B within a couple degrees and dB of each other with stock fans, so why do they need to be changed?

In America you can get TRUE Spirit 140 Power for $51. 99 on Amazon.com and it easily cools as well as D15 with stock fan. Looked at Mugen 5 rev. B and it's $46.59 on Amazon.com

What Noctua has that is as good or better than any other company is their dedication to helping their customers. I don't know of any company with better customer support .. most are not even close. Any CPU mount changes they give free updated mounts to original owner. Only coolers they won't give mounts for are ones with dedicated mounts, like NH-U14S TR4, NH-U9 TR4, etc.
 
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Motherboard/case/Ram compatibility is a bigger issue with bigger heatsinks, and most "standard" cases have about 155mm-165mm heatsink clearance. I think the p14 is a good replacement for the other 140mm fans if you want some more performance(though it's 2mm thicker so possibly compatibility problems), it seemed to perform better on the d15 than the nf A14.
 

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For the d15 I've only seen this benchmark, but a14 is an older Noctua fan not the same as af 12 so not surprising newer 140mm fans can beat it. Though in this benchmark the a14 has it's best performance relative to the other 140mm fans on the d15, the sw3 140mm doesn't do very well on the d15 heatsink but I think that fan was designed for Dark Rock heatsinks which taper strongly towards the centre and have thick anti vibration mounting strips on their heatsinks to increase clearance.
 

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For the d15 I've only seen this benchmark, but a14 is an older Noctua fan not the same as af 12 so not surprising newer 140mm fans can beat it. Though in this benchmark the a14 has it's best performance relative to the other 140mm fans on the d15, the sw3 140mm doesn't do very well on the d15 heatsink but I think that fan was designed for Dark Rock heatsinks which taper strongly towards the centre and have thick anti vibration mounting strips on their heatsinks to increase clearance.
Ah yeah I actually saw that. 2° at 34db is not too shabby for a fan that much cheaper than noctuas... man these fans sure are super. Their perfomance might have something to do with the 2mm increased thickness.
Also, not a fan of BeQuiet at all.
 

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Finally assembled everything i have.
The cooler is used on new Ryzen 5800x
The good thing - everything seems to be working.
The bad thing - the cooler is basically useless for this CPU, since it easily hits 88 in cinebench r23 which everyone tell me is absolutely normal for this CPU. The heatsink is barely warm during the test.
I've tried to check the TIM application (NT-H2), first time was fine with nice and even spread, second time i pulled CPU out of socket with the cooler - i didnt break anything for some reason. Never touching that thing again.
All i want to know is how to stop this CPU getting briefly to 70C when i open web browser.
Check the flatness of the ihs.

Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk
 

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If a Mugen 5 or FS140 or TS140 with fan replacements can compete with the D15, why even consider the D15? Its more than 2x as expensive.
I often wonder why myself. Frost Spirit 140, TRUE Spirit 140 Power, Le Grand Macho RT all compete or beat D15 with stock fans.
I agree, no reason to pay more money for same cooling. But people do.
I ended up getting D15S over any other cooler for a few reason and also what @ciarlatano mentioned

It has best front RAM, back RAM/VRM clearance (technically Le Grand Macho RT has better front RAM, but not back clearance), It has better height clearance than most others especially Spirit 140 Power (what am I gonna do with a 171mm cooler ?, when almost half of the new cases I'm looking at to get in the future are ~160mm, also horrible width for graphic card and top VRM clearance, ...)
NH-D15S is the most offset away from the GPU, the only other relatively comparable one is LGMRT, so in the end the choice came for those two as they ticked almost all the same boxes.

Another thing I was looking at is 30mm room between the towers, so I could put in a Phanteks 140mmx30mm thick liquid polymer fan when it comes out (that also took off quite a few coolers from my list). Can't do that on LGMRT in front because of RAM (explained below). Fuma 2 no room in between for 30mm, no room in front for non-slim.
While with LGMRT and Mugen 5 a front 30mm is possible with ram starting in 2nd slot, didn't wanna limit myself to a change that would require to populate all RAM slots (my gut feeling/intuition/hunch was right cause I later found out about dual rank memory setup giving decent performance boost), also wanted to have a cooler that is big enough to accommodate a 140mm Sterrox like fan.

However here comes what @ciarlatano mentioned, availability and customer support, manufacturer presence, there's none for Thermalright here, while Noctua has the best overall. Additionally, I got burned once 10 years ago by being stubborn about avoiding Noctua for color, price, wanting an underdog (Prolimatech), etc, ..., and I was getting bad vibes about where Thermalright as a company was going to be in the future, which turned out to be right, cause their presence around me has not gotten better, they even closed their main shop in Germany which always had tons of mounting brackets and other stuff, which is not a promising development for their presence outside of China/US, ...

Also the price part is a moot point, logical fallacy, If I'm going to use the cooler for a very long time 10 years, (which I did before), even a twice as expensive cooler is not expensive at all, if I have to replace the cheaper one because at some point down the road I ran into an unforeseen problem with it (Thus I made sure to choose a cooler for which there would be the least possible problems for, AKA the cooler with the best compatibility to performance. And it's 10 years, over that period of time anything ~$100 that doesn't break is worth it.
 

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Nothing the matter with NH-D15S. But there are many other coolers as good as D15, like Phanteks PH-TC14PE, Silver Arrow IB-E (offset base too), Fuma 2, Cryorig R1, LGM RT, Deepcool Assassin III and like 10 more all within a few degrees (as close as test results are accurate). Ciarlatano's "cost of changing fans" really is not valid, because all of above (and more) cool as well and as quietly as D15/D15S, many for less money.

But like I said before, Noctua customer support is the best!

Most all coolers will last 10+ years as well, but getting updated mount might be problematic . I'm still running some of Thermalright's first heatpipe tower coolers (HR 01 2004,Ultra 2005-6 & Ultima 2007)
 

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Yes I forgot to mention the Silver Arrow IB-E and Silver Arrow T8, however those have RAM clearance issues with the bottom most fins on some boards where RAM slots are closer than on average, and issues with additional RAM slots towards the end of the case. As well IB-E is >160mm.

I've thoroughly researched and considered all those you've mentioned, and they all are inferior to NH-D15/S and Le Grand Macho RT, in almost all additional aspects (aside from raw performance, consider this a second pass, choosing the best of the best in compatibility, from already highest performing coolers) I've explained in great detail in the above post what makes them inferior, and why I decided against them.

Noctua is the only option for secure longterm free/bought mount update in my country, and besides that, the issue is not whether the cooler itself will last, the issue is whether it will have compatibility issues with new and different motherboards, ram, VRM heatsinks and cases, and most importantly room to change to new technology fans down the road.

Which is why it's only logical that the coolers with the most stuff shaved off from the sides, and the most offset and twisted and complex heatpipe designs will have the biggest chance of being usable with all the new stuff.

Starting from 2017/18 and through 2027/28 my plan is to regularly change the following components as new ones drop in price a few months after launch, and offset the cost by selling my old ones before they lose too much value. For instance changing the CPUs the most often, Ryzen 1700 > Ryzen 3600 > Ryzen 5600?, then changing the ram from 2666Mhz bad Hynix M-die > Micron E-die, then motherboard Asus Prime x370-Pro ?

motherboard once per socket ideally, memory, the best cheap one the memory controller can handle when the memory is at ok price (cyclical 2-year prices), etc, and cpus like socks as soon as there's >15% performance increase.
 

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Well, I've been trying to get a reply from Thermalright over the last 3 days. Their customer service is complete sheet. Good coolers, but if you need a part or two you are fooked.

Most unimpressive. Not sure if I will buy from them again if I'm honest. At this rate they can kiss my ass.
 

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Because the market is small in my country, used recent old stuff doesn't drop in price much, and I only get the new stuff on deals and when there's a decent price drop, so I save quite a lot of money, by flipping used parts fast before the market adjusts to the new part price drop (there's a few days to few weeks delay always).

If I lived a different country I'd change my approach to however the new/used/black friday market worked there (I'd probably only by used CPUs for instance and similar)

All the other parts of the PC I buy at different cadence as to maximise how much money I save. I don't have much money, so I can't afford to buy new cooler/case/speakers/keyboard/SSD/HDD/Monitor, sooner than ~10 year intervals.

This is broad, because of course I'd change a backup HDD a bit sooner than 10 years, and i might get a new SSD sooner, if the prices dropped a lot and similar. Picking the perfect price-to-performanse-to-support-to-longevity secondary component to last me ~10 years is what enables me to change CPUs so often.

As for the GPUs, well they're the wildcard, being the most expensive part, I'm the most vigilant and patient about finding a good deal for one, and always base what I buy on the current Monitor I'm using in this decade (this is the part where I might do a bad buy and similar because of the weird market situation).

For instance I'd never in a million years by a better stronger, more expensive GPU just in case, or because I might get a better monitor in the future, or games might require it, that whole train of thought and type of thinking is a sunken cost fallacy, and well, overly-emotional (fear based) bad buying practise.

The most fiscally responsible thing is to never do that before you change monitors. When you change a monitor, sell your current GPU for any amount of money, recoup the costs even if it's $150, $100, $50, and then start looking for an appropriate GPU for your new monitor , and/or new other parts.
 

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Nothing the matter with NH-D15S. But there are many other coolers as good as D15, like Phanteks PH-TC14PE, Silver Arrow IB-E (offset base too), Fuma 2, Cryorig R1, LGM RT, Deepcool Assassin III and like 10 more all within a few degrees (as close as test results are accurate). Ciarlatano's "cost of changing fans" really is not valid, because all of above (and more) cool as well and as quietly as D15/D15S, many for less money.
My argument is valid in context, and was pointed directly at the case of the Mugen 5 (and applies to most sub $50 coolers) that was a cooler specifically in question. Bringing more $75+ coolers into the mix wasn't a part of the equation of the question or answer, and actually further validates the point I was making. You are now listing $75 coolers that will cool as well as an $89 Mugen 5 with a fan change, and do so at a much lower noise level.

I also said my example was specific to the US. The only cooler you listed that costs less than a D15 in the US is the Fuma 2. The others are comparably priced here.

And I didn't even mention how much quicker the Mugen 5 gets heat soaked than a D15 in extreme usage, which would also likely be the case with the Fuma 2. I said likely as I haven't seen that tested.
 

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Well, I've been trying to get a reply from Thermalright over the last 3 days. Their customer service is complete sheet. Good coolers, but if you need a part or two you are fooked.

Most unimpressive. Not sure if I will buy from them again if I'm honest. At this rate they can kiss my ass.
Yes, that's what I'm most afraid of, because I've experienced it with Prolimatech. Prolimatech just died as a company, and left me hanging with no AM4 mount :( They've actually showed up again in China, but started completely fresh so no support for old stuff. I'm fully expecting Cryorig to fold next.

Thermalright is still very strong in China, but they're stagnating or disappearing from the rest of the world, which makes me sad :(
 

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For the d15 I've only seen this benchmark, but a14 is an older Noctua fan not the same as af 12 so not surprising newer 140mm fans can beat it. Though in this benchmark the a14 has it's best performance relative to the other 140mm fans on the d15, the sw3 140mm doesn't do very well on the d15 heatsink but I think that fan was designed for Dark Rock heatsinks which taper strongly towards the centre and have thick anti vibration mounting strips on their heatsinks to increase clearance.
So, you've only seen a benchmark with monetized product links.....gee, I wonder if those results might be skewed. :rolleyes:
 

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Yes, that's what I'm most afraid of, because I've experienced it with Prolimatech. Prolimatech just died as a company, and left me hanging with no AM4 mount :( They've actually showed up again in China, but started completely fresh so no support for old stuff. I'm fully expecting Cryorig to fold next.

Thermalright is still very strong in China, but they're stagnating or disappearing from the rest of the world, which makes me sad :(
I'm thinking because my government arrested the daughter of the guy who started Huawei that they might be mad at Canada.

I didn't do it, she shouldn't have been so shady, don't be mad at us be mad at yourselves lol.

I will be pissed if I have to buy a Noctua lol.
 
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