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Discussion Starter #1
I wasn't sure whether to come here, or to TPU about this. I know I couldn't use Tom's Hardware, due to most of the members being from America, and Thermalright's small presence here; their products are hard to come by, unfortunately.
I have both of the coolers in the title, but what I'm finding from my particular setup is that the Silver Arrow is performing on average, a few degrees worse or within a margin of error difference, which is rather disappointing. So here I am trying to get to the bottom of this.
I'll try to provide as much info as possible.

Cpu: i7-7820X
Delidded by Silicon Lottery, and overclocked by myself to 4.5ghz at 1.18Vcore. Cache was left at 2.7ghz, but manually set to 0.82v.

Motherboard: Asus Prime X299 Deluxe
Current limit set to 200% - the next lowest option, 140%, causes shutdowns.
Power limits and power duration limits are maxed out, LLC set to level 5, and ram manually set to 3600mhz(1.35v) with primary timings of 16-19-19-39 and 1T.

Ram: G. Skill Ripjaws V 3600 quad channel, 4x 8GBs

Storage: 3 Samsung SSDs

Gpu: Gigabyte 1080Ti Gaming OC
Just last month, I mounted a NZXT Kraken G12 + Fractal Design Celsius S36 on it. The stock fans were replaced with an NF-A9 and 3x NF-S12As.

Power supply: Seasonic Prime Titanium 750w

Chassis: Cooler Master H500P Mesh
I DIY'ed a mesh panel for the top, but it doesn't appear to affect thermals much, if at all. But I can switch between them at will. The mesh mod was used for the cooler testing.

Fan setup
Front intake, push-pull: 3x NF-A14s > Celsius S36 > 3x NF-S12As
Rear exhaust: NF-A14
Top: alternated between intake, exhaust, intake + exhaust, and nothing.
https://imgur.com/iDzV0t7

https://imgur.com/9iGP6sV

https://imgur.com/YjrQUu5

Testing was done using only Cinebench R20(30 mins), and NT-H2 thermal paste was used - I think I went through an entire small tube of this trying to get this to work...
Room ambient was around 25C. I don't know the temp of the intake air, but I imagine it wasn't much higher than that since R20 doesn't work the gpu at all.
All fans were being run at max.

What I've tried with the above fan setup:
A)Ok, so the Silver Arrow's fans to move quite a bit more air, so perhaps I need stronger exhaust fans?
2x NF-A14 top exhaust - later changed to a single top exhaust, as the first fan was discovered to not really do anything.
NF-IPPC 3000 rear exhaust... this should be able to keep up, right? Wrong, it did worse than the original config.

B)Maybe it's not getting enough fresh air?
2x NF-A14 top intake.
Result: nope, try again.

C)1 top intake + 1 top exhaust.
Result: negative.

C)Ok, perhaps the top and rear installed NF-A14s just aren't doing this cooler any favors?
Removed - let the cooler do it's thing.
Result: nada.

D)Maybe, just maybe... I'm not installing this cooler correctly? That little plate that has to be aligned on top of the cooler's base plate is a little tricky...
Result: I think I saw more of a difference from this than moving/changing the top and rear fans out. The results still weren't impressive though.
Forgot to mention that I used the 5 dot paste method for the cpu.

E)ALRIGHT. Maybe my chassis airflow sucks.
Removed the front, side, and top panels. Top panel: a single exhaust.
Result: Well bud, it isn't your airflow... so if even that failed, that means the problem is the cooler itself?
 

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I initially was thinking you were using the same fans on both, and that would have made sense. But, with the TY-143 on the IB-E, it should be outperforming the D15S albeit with significantly more noise. After reading all you tried, the only thing I could think of would be a contact issue. Maybe @doyll has some thoughts as his use of the IB-E is far more recent than mine, and I have little to no recollection of any mounting/contact hiccups with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's what I expected would happen too - I don't mind the added noise if the extra 'umph' is needed.
The lack of contact would make sense; the slight height loss from the delid hurt the IB-E Extreme, but not the NH-D15S w/2x NF-A15s?
 

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Well, first things first, I have Silver Arrow SB-E and NH-D15 at home. I did test both with same fans on cooler and case, same thermal compound. Room has aircondition so temp. was stable more or less.
As my CPU is ryzen 3600, it was not as challenging as 7820x is to cool.

I did test both and there was not as much of a difference. Maby dh-u15 was a bit better (2-3c) on normal load like gaming but SA SB-E was a bit better at hard load like blender, or cb20 loop ect. Ended up with noctua because I have it black and it looks better and because there was no real difference.

But what I learned in the process is paying attention to SilverArrow mounting pressure.
Because of 8 heatpipes it cold plate is big, and I mean big. 53 x39mm compared to 40 x 38 mm of NH-D15. Next thing is that Your mounting bracket goes thru the longer dimension. I was used to Noctua mounting mechanism which is so good, You do not need to think about how hard to screw it down. You just go all the way until screw is not turning any more.

I was also used to TRUE 120, Archon. Cold Plate it this is convex in this ones, You need to screw them a bit more to force it to flatness.

So I've put a bit of mounting force on Silver Arrow. Thermal results were bad, like 212 evo bad. So I started looking for cause. First of all Silver Arrow coldplate is flat, absolutely. If You put too much mounting pressure on it i will get to concave and the middle of cold plate will have no contact with IHS. I've had same issue with TRUE 140 Power as the coldplate is identical to one on Silver Arrow.
Screwing SilverArrow hard and then backing it up 3/4 of a turn made it work perfectly. To add to that, as 7820x IHS is smaller than the one on 3600 I think that this is even more important.

Yes, I'm not normal and I love air cooling
 
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Fix it till its broke
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Just wanted to say you have a sweet set up, love it. Real bummer about the contact issue. I own Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power and both are great. But my TS140P has poorer contact than LGMRT does, and I see less grip on temps and maybe 3-5c difference in cooling. I should have sent it back, but figured I’d just lap it later. Can you send it back? I know it’s a beast of a cpu to cool, but you have all that case flow and a couple of 143s.. if you have some tim left maybe draw a line with it over the cores and plant the cooler on. But before you clamp it down give it a little titty twister before you do.
 

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Good air coolers are not leaving my house, aspecialy Thermalright ones, they stay here :D I'm in a process of building some nice exposition cabin for them.
 

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Fix it till its broke
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Good air coolers are not leaving my house, aspecialy Thermalright ones, they stay here :D I'm in a process of building some nice exposition cabin for them.
Oh I hear you there! I thought you just received it in the mail heheh. I also own an Ultra 120 Extreme, XP-90, and the one for a GTX 285, cant remember the name off hand. Next up is FS 140, or maybe a Silver Arrow because I need more 143s lol :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well, first things first, I have Silver Arrow SB-E and NH-D15 at home. I did test both with same fans on cooler and case, same thermal compound. Room has aircondition so temp. was stable more or less.
But what I learned in the process is paying attention to SilverArrow mounting pressure.
Because of 8 heatpipes it cold plate is big, and I mean big. 53 x39mm compared to 40 x 38 mm of NH-D15. Next thing is that Your mounting bracket goes thru the longer dimension. I was used to Noctua mounting mechanism which is so good, You do not need to think about how hard to screw it down. You just go all the way until screw is not turning any more.

I was also used to TRUE 120, Archon. Cold Plate it this is convex in this ones, You need to screw them a bit more to force it to flatness.

So I've put a bit of mounting force on Silver Arrow. Thermal results were bad, like 212 evo bad. So I started looking for cause. First of all Silver Arrow coldplate is flat, absolutely. If You put too much mounting pressure on it i will get to concave and the middle of cold plate will have no contact with IHS. I've had same issue with TRUE 140 Power as the coldplate is identical to one on Silver Arrow.
Screwing SilverArrow hard and then backing it up 3/4 of a turn made it work perfectly. To add to that, as 7820x IHS is smaller than the one on 3600 I think that this is even more important.
This makes a lot of sense!
I too, am too used to Noctua's mounting bracket; I used their L-wrench to screw both of those screws until they stopped.
Thermalright's manual wasn't very helpful - it doesn't mention anything about how much torque to use.
I will give it a go tomorrow morning as I will have more time to play around with it.





Just wanted to say you have a sweet set up, love it. Real bummer about the contact issue. I own Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power and both are great. But my TS140P has poorer contact than LGMRT does, and I see less grip on temps and maybe 3-5c difference in cooling. I should have sent it back, but figured I’d just lap it later. Can you send it back? I know it’s a beast of a cpu to cool, but you have all that case flow and a couple of 143s.. if you have some tim left maybe draw a line with it over the cores and plant the cooler on. But before you clamp it down give it a little titty twister before you do.
Thanks!


No, I can't send it back as I've already owned it for more than a few months.
 

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Screw everything down all the way. Until the screw stops. Do both sides evenly a few turns at a time. If it feels tight it’s because it is, the high mounting pressure is by design 🙂
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, that's what I've been doing, even going so far as to do back and forth, single full turns on both screws.
 

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I have to take what I said back about TS140P. I just rotated it 180 from the way I normally use it, and I am now seeing a 3-4c spread and temps that are equal with LGMRT. As a side note I am also getting lower motherboard and VRM temps as well. About 3c on average.
 

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I have to take what I said back about TS140P. I just rotated it 180 from the way I normally use it, and I am now seeing a 3-4c spread and temps that are equal with LGMRT. As a side note I am also getting lower motherboard and VRM temps as well. About 3c on average.
Guessing it's not cooler but cooler set to IHS. One way TS140P is mating up better than other. ;)

Both are among the best of the best. :D
 

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Fix it till its broke
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I have to take what I said back about TS140P. I just rotated it 180 from the way I normally use it, and I am now seeing a 3-4c spread and temps that are equal with LGMRT. As a side note I am also getting lower motherboard and VRM temps as well. About 3c on average.
Guessing it's not cooler but cooler set to IHS. One way TS140P is mating up better than other. /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

Both are among the best of the best. /forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
That would be my guess too. I had to take LGMRT off because I wanted to see if my mobo would fit in my Meshify C. It does not.. I would have cut about an inch out. E-ATX problems 😂
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok, so I swapped it back in and tried applying different levels of torque.
Just for reference, here's the best I got from both coolers so far through R20:
IB-E Extreme Rev. B:
82, 81, 88, 87, 89, 88, 85, 80


NH-D15S w/2 NF-A15:
80, 79, 85, 86, 87, 86, 85, 81




I tried the line in the middle paste application, and then went right back to the 5 dot method:
88, 84, 94, 91, 95, 93, 89, 84



After tightening the screws and letting off about a full turn, I got this:
85, 84, 90, 90, 94, 91, 88, 83


Ok... then I did it over, and let off half a turn:
84, 83, 90, 90, 91, 91, 88, 82


Then I got the idea to 'just screw it', and apply some pressure while I'm turning the L-wrench until it stops:
83, 81, 88, 88, 90, 88, 85, 80




Since the delid lowers the height of the IHS, it looks like I need to tighten the crap out of the IB-E Extreme's mounting bar now...
 

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Ok, so I swapped it back in and tried applying different levels of torque.
Just for reference, here's the best I got from both coolers so far through R20:
IB-E Extreme Rev. B:
82, 81, 88, 87, 89, 88, 85, 80


NH-D15S w/2 NF-A15:
80, 79, 85, 86, 87, 86, 85, 81




I tried the line in the middle paste application, and then went right back to the 5 dot method:
88, 84, 94, 91, 95, 93, 89, 84



After tightening the screws and letting off about a full turn, I got this:
85, 84, 90, 90, 94, 91, 88, 83


Ok... then I did it over, and let off half a turn:
84, 83, 90, 90, 91, 91, 88, 82


Then I got the idea to 'just screw it', and apply some pressure while I'm turning the L-wrench until it stops:
83, 81, 88, 88, 90, 88, 85, 80




Since the delid lowers the height of the IHS, it looks like I need to tighten the crap out of the IB-E Extreme's mounting bar now...

Silver Arrow with TY-143 extreme fans at 2500rpm cools 5-8c better than D15 NF-A15 1500rpm fans largely because it's moving almost twice as much air thorugh cooler. But that is assuming you have case fans with similar extreme case airflow supplying TY-143 the extreme amount of cool air it needs. If case does not flow enough cool air to cooler than cooler reuses it's own heated exhasut air and cannot cool properly and resulting temps will be about the same as with fans at 1300-1500rpm like most other coolers. See attached results of Sivler Arrow IBE Extreme on Threadripper 2990WX PBO.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Silver Arrow with TY-143 extreme fans at 2500rpm cools 5-8c better than D15 NF-A15 1500rpm fans largely because it's moving almost twice as much air thorugh cooler. But that is assuming you have case fans with similar extreme case airflow supplying TY-143 the extreme amount of cool air it needs. If case does not flow enough cool air to cooler than cooler reuses it's own heated exhasut air and cannot cool properly and resulting temps will be about the same as with fans at 1300-1500rpm like most other coolers. See attached results of Sivler Arrow IBE Extreme on Threadripper 2990WX PBO.
No problem remedying that.
[Replaced all 120 and 140mm with IPPC 3000 fans. Only a single 140mm in the top panel positioned over the heatsink as exhaust.]

Ambient temp still 25C.



81, 78, 86, 87, 89, 86, 83, 78


Then I mounted the cooler again and gave those 2 screws a little more elbow grease:
80, 78, 86, 86, 89, 86, 85, 79


Disregarding the noise, now it's on par with the NH-D15S w/2 NF-A15. Bummer.


Perhaps 2x 120 top exhausts would be more effective than just the single 140mm? Gonna go test that real quick.
I know 2x 140s doesn't work, because the first fan draws air away from the cooler.
EDIT: No real change there.
 

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No problem remedying that.
[Replaced all 120 and 140mm with IPPC 3000 fans. Only a single 140mm in the top panel positioned over the heatsink as exhaust.]

Ambient temp still 25C.

81, 78, 86, 87, 89, 86, 83, 78

Then I mounted the cooler again and gave those 2 screws a little more elbow grease:
80, 78, 86, 86, 89, 86, 85, 79

Disregarding the noise, now it's on par with the NH-D15S w/2 NF-A15. Bummer.

Perhaps 2x 120 top exhausts would be more effective than just the single 140mm? Gonna go test that real quick.
I know 2x 140s doesn't work, because the first fan draws air away from the cooler.
EDIT: No real change there.
What case and case fan setup? I've had very good results using no exhaust fans, only good pressure rated intakes in front and sometimes bottom with all opening in case not being used by them blocked so air they push into case has to move on through case and out, not leak around fans and go in circles.



I know a fair few who use / used Noctua iPPC fans and most were not happy with them. While the do move plenty of air their sound is not as nice as other (like TY-143 / TY-143 SQ). How do you find their sound profile? I think stock NF-A15 has decent sound profile, but the industrials don't seem to. Very intersted you your thoughts here.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
What case and case fan setup? I've had very good results using no exhaust fans, only good pressure rated intakes in front and sometimes bottom with all opening in case not being used by them blocked so air they push into case has to move on through case and out, not leak around fans and go in circles.
Cooler Master H500P Mesh
https://imgur.com/9iGP6sV


https://imgur.com/PecrXb1
Custom mesh mod on the top panel. I can switch between it and the original acrylic panel as needed.

Take the 1st image and:
-replace the 2x 140mm with a single 140mm IPPC 3000 positioned above the heatsink
-rear, also a 140mm IPPC 3000
-the 3 radiator pull fans, 120mm IPPC 3000
-the front push fans, while not visible, are 140mm IPPC 3000





I know a fair few who use / used Noctua iPPC fans and most were not happy with them. While the do move plenty of air their sound is not as nice as other (like TY-143 / TY-143 SQ). How do you find their sound profile? I think stock NF-A15 has decent sound profile, but the industrials don't seem to. Very intersted you your thoughts here.
I've never had an issue with them, except at full blast, but at that point, I'm running a stress test or other anyway, so it's expected. I ran them as if they were the originals.

At similar rpm, the IPPCs sound about the same, but the pitch is different - because of the motor, obviously. This may be more pleasant on the ears of those who find the pitch of the originals to be unbearable.
 

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Cooler Master H500P Mesh
https://imgur.com/9iGP6sV

https://imgur.com/PecrXb1
Custom mesh mod on the top panel. I can switch between it and the original acrylic panel as needed.

Take the 1st image and:
-replace the 2x 140mm with a single 140mm IPPC 3000 positioned above the heatsink
-rear, also a 140mm IPPC 3000
-the 3 radiator pull fans, 120mm IPPC 3000
-the front push fans, while not visible, are 140mm IPPC 3000

I've never had an issue with them, except at full blast, but at that point, I'm running a stress test or other anyway, so it's expected. I ran them as if they were the originals.

At similar rpm, the IPPCs sound about the same, but the pitch is different - because of the motor, obviously. This may be more pleasant on the ears of those who find the pitch of the originals to be unbearable.
Thanks for the images. Looks like Silver Arrow IB-E but can't see for sure. If top fin of cooler is full size (& fin packs of offset away from PCIe sockets it's IB-E and those TY-143 fans only come on Extreme models.
 
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