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Well i bought a x25-m 80gb intel ssd wich i love problem is its not very big to hold 1 or 2 games i want plus all my apps so i was considering on buying another 80gb and raiding them. My question is though i dont know much about this trim ive heard about can someone enlighten me as to what trim does and how it will effect me if i raid my ssd's. I want to raid so i can have more room and abit more of a performance boost from my ssd's but im unsure if the raid will degraid my ssd's faster without trim. Any suggestions or info would be appreciated thanks.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by georgep001 View Post
Well i bought a x25-m 80gb intel ssd wich i love problem is its not very big to hold 1 or 2 games i want plus all my apps so i was considering on buying another 80gb and raiding them. My question is though i dont know much about this trim ive heard about can someone enlighten me as to what trim does and how it will effect me if i raid my ssd's. I want to raid so i can have more room and abit more of a performance boost from my ssd's but im unsure if the raid will degraid my ssd's faster without trim. Any suggestions or info would be appreciated thanks.
You will not have Trim!
"Trim" is a command that Windows 7 sends to the SSD to tell it to delete files that you have deleted!
On a HDD.When you delete a file, the OS just marks it deleted! Then data is just written over it!
But with a SSD, the data has to be deleted first. Before that part of the drive can have data written to it again! So the "trim" command!

Without Trim, once all the blocks on the SSD have been written to once. Any more writes would be slower because the drive would have to delete then write from now on!
But with "Trim" the blocks would already be clean

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgep001 View Post
anyone?
You're allowed to bump once every 24 hours, not 2 minutes


Quote:

Originally Posted by godofdeath View Post
running raid wont get you more room on the drives, you either get faster performance or safer performance where it is internally back up of your files
Yes it will!
faster performance Raid0
Two drives making twice the space
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Quote:

Originally Posted by godofdeath View Post
running raid wont get you more room on the drives, you either get faster performance or safer performance where it is internally back up of your files
That doesnt make sense i havent raided in years but im sure it hasnt changed that much taking a 80gb and raiding it with another 80gb gives me 160gb with so that does give me more room.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by godofdeath View Post
running raid wont get you more room on the drives, you either get faster performance or safer performance where it is internally back up of your files
What??
Out of all possible RAIDs, you're talking about RAID1 when the OP was probably thinking RAID0.

When you write and delete data from an SSD, the cell that contained the information is not wiped, it's just marked as "available". However when later you want to write back to that memory cell, instead of writing to it right away, the SSD is going to have to clean it and then it'll be able to write to it. The cleaning part kills performance badly. So overtime as you install & uninstall applications, move files around etc, those "dirty" cells add up to the point that whenever you're writing to your SSD, you're writing to a dirty cell which has to be cleaned before you can use it.
So TRIM addresses that problem by cleaning previously used cells seamlessly so that you always maintain high performance.

So currently, TRIM is not supported for RAIDed SSDs; I am personally running two SSDs in RAID0 and I do my best to limit useless writes, such as moving paging file, temp folder etc to a hard drive. I am pretty sure that Intel will be the first one to find a way to enable TRIM for RAID SSDs on the Intel chipset so the problem might be solved even before it starts to be noticeable.

In the long run, what you do is clone your array (make an image), clean your SSDs one by one with secure erase and then re-image your array. That way, you lost no data and out of the box performance is restored.

PS: and indeed in RAID0 you'll get 160GB.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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Originally Posted by ACHILEE5 View Post
You will not have Trim!
"Trim" is a command that Windows 7 sends to the SSD to tell it to delete files that you have deleted!
On a HDD.When you delete a file, the OS just marks it deleted! Then data is just written over it!
But with a SSD, the data has to be deleted first. Before that part of the drive can have data written to it again! So the "trim" command!

Without Trim, once all the blocks on the SSD have been written to once. Any more writes would be slower because the drive would have to delete then write from now on!
But with "Trim" the blocks would already be clean

You're allowed to bump once every 24 hours, not 2 minutes

so your telling me then raiding would not be a good idea? im confused
 

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Discussion Starter #9
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Originally Posted by Emmanuel View Post
What??
Out of all possible RAIDs, you're talking about RAID1 when the OP probably was thinking RAID0.

When you write and delete data from an SSD, the cell that contained the information is not wiped, it's just marked as "available". However when later you want to write back to that memory cell, instead of writing to it right away, the SSD is going to have to clean it and then it'll be able to write to it. The cleaning part kills performance badly. So overtime as you install & uninstall applications, move files around etc, those "dirty" cells add up to the point that whenever you're writing to your SSD, you're writing to a dirty cell which has to be cleaned before you can use it.
So TRIM addresses that problem by cleaning previously used cells seamlessly so that you always maintain high performance.
ok so trim addresses the cleaning issue of the ssd but my question is will it be more beneficial to raid another 80gb or just buy a bigger ssd if i want more space?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by godofdeath View Post
running raid wont get you more room on the drives, you either get faster performance or safer performance where it is internally back up of your files
with RAID-0 you get the number of drives x the smallest drive so 2 80GB SSD = 160GB storage
 

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Discussion Starter #13
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Originally Posted by Bitemarks and bloodstains View Post
get a bigger drive as you can TRIM it with SSDs in RAID you can not TRIM so performance will decrease over time
ok what should i do with my 80gb? i currently have the 80gb as my c drive a 250gb seagate and a 1tb seagate as backups but there not ssd only the c drive is.

Im a heavy gamer wich is why i want a bigger harddrive my mmo alone takes up 15gb of the drive lol. but i just dont know what ill do with my 80gb
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by georgep001 View Post
so your telling me then raiding would not be a good idea? im confused
I'd run the second SSD as a Gameing Drive


Quote:

Originally Posted by georgep001 View Post
ok so trim addresses the cleaning issue of the ssd but my question is will it be more beneficial to raid another 80gb or just buy a bigger ssd if i want more space?
Read my sig bud

Multi-Quote is well easy


As for the SSDs!
I have two 80GB Intels and I'd love to raid them, but as I do lots of writes to my SSD. I would have to pull down the Raid Array once a week to sort the drives


I have done it, but it's a pain in the but


The worst it got was write speeds of 9MB/Sec

And like that, it took 40 minutes to install Windows


So I have my OS and Apps on one. And my games on the other

And the second they sort Trim for Raid. (If ever) I'll be on it
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ACHILEE5 View Post
I'd run the second SSD as a Gameing Drive


Read my sig bud

Multi-Quote is well easy


As for the SSDs!
I have two 80GB Intels and I'd love to raid them, but as I do lots of writes to my SSD. I would have to pull down the Raid Array once a week to sort the drives


I have done it, but it's a pain in the but


The worst it got was write speeds of 9MB/Sec

And like that, it took 40 minutes to install Windows


So I have my OS and Apps on one. And my games on the other

And the second they sort Trim for Raid. (If ever) I'll be on it

reminds of every time I have installed XP on an older computer
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Quote:

Originally Posted by ACHILEE5 View Post
I'd run the second SSD as a Gameing Drive


Read my sig bud

Multi-Quote is well easy


As for the SSDs!
I have two 80GB Intels and I'd love to raid them, but as I do lots of writes to my SSD. I would have to pull down the Raid Array once a week to sort the drives


I have done it, but it's a pain in the but


The worst it got was write speeds of 9MB/Sec

And like that, it took 40 minutes to install Windows


So I have my OS and Apps on one. And my games on the other

And the second they sort Trim for Raid. (If ever) I'll be on it

heh sry not used to that multiquote thing and ya ill keep my 80gb as my c drive and use the 160gb as a gaming drive seeing as i need the bigger drive for my games that makes sense thx alot man i appreciate the feedback raid sounded nice but i dont want my drives degraiding especially since there not cheap either lol.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by georgep001 View Post
heh sry not used to that multiquote thing and ya ill keep my 80gb as my c drive and use the 160gb as a gaming drive seeing as i need the bigger drive for my games that makes sense thx alot man i appreciate the feedback raid sounded nice but i dont want my drives degraiding especially since there not cheap either lol.
once the drives a degraded you just take them out of RAID and run TRIM on them seperately but to do this you need another drive with windows on
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bitemarks and bloodstains View Post
once the drives a degraded you just take them out of RAID and run TRIM on them seperately but to do this you need another drive with windows on
Ya that sounds like more of a pain then its worth id rather just fork out the extra 200 bucks and get a bigger drive and no that i dont haft to do that every couple weeks.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by georgep001 View Post
ok so trim addresses the cleaning issue of the ssd but my question is will it be more beneficial to raid another 80gb or just buy a bigger ssd if i want more space?
I read something recently that the Intel ICH10R has beta drivers that allow the TRIM command to pass through a RAID setup. You may want to look into that.

Otherwise, because your SSD doesn't support native Garbage Collection I wouldn't recommend setting up a RAID array with another drive. You will see performance degradation over time, though there may be a separate tool (piece of software) to help with that.

You could just buy a larger SSD, or if you're set on RAID go with 2x smaller drives that have native GC. Any of the newer Sandforce 1200 drives would work well. I would recommend the OCZ Vertex 2 series.

My
 
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