[David164v8]

My usage is around 50/50 on music and gaming. I'm using a pair of Sennheiser 598's and I have no amp. I hate the control panel of my DG, and Dolby Headphone is terrible for gaming. In fact, I generally don't think the sound card improved my gaming audio. For music it sounds pretty cool, but I'm guessing it could be better? Would the Esscense fix my gaming problems? I'm on Windows 8, and the Titanium HD had recently been updated for it. I can get the Titanium HD for significantly less than the Xonar, but I don't mind if the difference is significance.

Also, I notice a lot of people seem to dislike Creative products due to driver issues. As far as I know, the card works fine now (I doubt it could be worse than my DG in the driver department) so drivers aren't an issue.

TL;DR Which has better sound quality in gaming and music? Price and drivers aren't an issue.

 

[Tjj226 Angel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David164v8

My usage is around 50/50 on music and gaming. I'm using a pair of Sennheiser 598's and I have no amp. I hate the control panel of my DG, and Dolby Headphone is terrible for gaming. In fact, I generally don't think the sound card improved my gaming audio. For music it sounds pretty cool, but I'm guessing it could be better? Would the Esscense fix my gaming problems? I'm on Windows 8, and the Titanium HD had recently been updated for it. I can get the Titanium HD for significantly less than the Xonar, but I don't mind if the difference is significance.

Also, I notice a lot of people seem to dislike Creative products due to driver issues. As far as I know, the card works fine now (I doubt it could be worse than my DG in the driver department) so drivers aren't an issue.

TL;DR Which has better sound quality in gaming and music? Price and drivers aren't an issue.

Honestly, the schiit magni and modi came out not too long ago and it sounds far better than either of those two cards. The best part is that it is plug and play. No stupid drivers.

It is a dedicated dac and amp which is nothing more than a mega sound card.

 

[David164v8]

I have already looked at those two, but they are unfortunately quite expensive in the UK.

 

[nleksan]

I was facing the same decision, and I went with the HD. It's an absolutely awesome gaming card, specificallyif you are using headphones. The Sennheiser HD598 will work well with it, and the immersion you get from the combination of the sound card + open/dynamic headphones is incredible.

 

[Tjj226 Angel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David164v8

I have already looked at those two, but they are unfortunately quite expensive in the UK.

Ahhh UK huh. Ok well I think the audio engine D1 dac/amp combo is 140 for you guys which makes it the same as the STX. They sound about the same, but the nice thing is that you won't have to fight with drivers and nonsense like that.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel

Ahhh UK huh. Ok well I think the audio engine D1 dac/amp combo is 140 for you guys which makes it the same as the STX. They sound about the same, but the nice thing is that you won't have to fight with drivers and nonsense like that.

You also lose Dolby headphone which for a gamer is a big turn off imo.

 

[linkin93]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel

Ahhh UK huh. Ok well I think the audio engine D1 dac/amp combo is 140 for you guys which makes it the same as the STX. They sound about the same, but the nice thing is that you won't have to fight with drivers and nonsense like that.

You also lose Dolby headphone which for a gamer is a big turn off imo.

Maybe if you're a clueless gamer.

I have zero issues with sound projection on my STX and DT880's with all dolby/cmss3d-like effects turned off.

What really matters is the quality of the game's sound engine and sounds. CS:S is a good example of GREAT sounds and localisation of sounds

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

You might want to go do some research on what DH and CMSS3d actually do. Also CS:S from what I hear is one of those games that benefits quite a bit from open al if I'm not mistaken. A lot of people don't like those hard right to left pans on straight stereo in most games and thats where dolby headphone can make things much more immersive.

Just because not everyone agrees with you doesn't make them "clueless" right now you sound a bit ignorant tbh.

 

[DrGroove]

http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/

You can get the DAC/amp combo or buy the separates.

 

[linkin93]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

You might want to go do some research on what DH and CMSS3d actually do. Also CS:S from what I hear is one of those games that benefits quite a bit from open al if I'm not mistaken. A lot of people don't like those hard right to left pans on straight stereo in most games and thats where dolby headphone can make things much more immersive.

Just because not everyone agrees with you doesn't make them "clueless" right now you sound a bit ignorant tbh.

Because head-fi is an extremely reliable source...

I was making a point that because most game engines aren't designed with this stuff in mind (excluding OpenAL), using third party effects can do more harm than good for games and music.

CMSS-3D attempts to create a three-dimensional soundscape, which it does okay. This works in games where you need to hear things above and below you as well as distance and direction (2D sounds) but does negatively affect the sound quality. It also has CPU overhead and is not entirely bug-free. But it's there to use nonetheless. However for music listening, you don't want any of these affects. You don't really need 3D sound for music.

CS:S in particular was released with XP and still had good hardware acceleration and built-in 3D sound: http://techreport.com/review/7243/counter-strike-source-audio-performance-explored

As you can see even with soundcard hardware acceleration there is still a performance decrease. CS:S has a fairly simple sound engine these days and modern games have more and more sounds that would cause a larger performance drop.

OpenAL does not create 3D sound, but it is a good baseline for most games to use for a sound engine. I'd be happy if more games used it.

Once again, IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, forcing 3D effects for games and especially music (which it was not really designed for, it's a "gamer" feature) destroys sound quality.

For me, sound quality and 2D sound separation is paramount. Especially in music, and in games which don't have native 3D sound.

Windows 8 presents opportunity for good 3D sound again due to another re-write of the windows audio stack, this time allowing for hardware acceleration/3D audio (unlike vista/win7)

 

[Tjj226 Angel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

You might want to go do some research on what DH and CMSS3d actually do. Also CS:S from what I hear is one of those games that benefits quite a bit from open al if I'm not mistaken. A lot of people don't like those hard right to left pans on straight stereo in most games and thats where dolby headphone can make things much more immersive.

Just because not everyone agrees with you doesn't make them "clueless" right now you sound a bit ignorant tbh.

No, it makes them clueless.

I completely agree with linkin. I think most of the audiophile members would as well.

Quite frankly the OP even said he hates the 3D software in his first post. So why you even mentioned it is kind of a mystery to me.

Furthermore, that software is only going to sound good is if you are comparing it to a sound system that is already full of distortion OR if you have headphones that pair with the software like the razer tiamat.

Aside from that, it doesn't even do anything for your game. Seriously, it amazes me just how many people on this website sink a couple hundred bucks into gaming audio. If you want to game, then get the razer carcharias on sale and use on board audio. So long as you can hear foot steps behind you, then you are set. If not, then I would like to introduce you to the thing up in your upper right hand corner. It is called a mini map. USE IT.

I say this all the time. Before some hacking douche wiped my scores, I used to be around the 250th spot on COD MW1. I did that with 0 sound. After I got some speakers, and could hear everything, I didn't move up or down. My point being is that sound won't do diddly poop in gaming PRACTICE WILL.

If you are hell bent on having better 3D sound, then get a good dac and headphones with a BIG sound stage. You will get a much more realistic experience that way than with stupid parlor trick software.

Lastly. Head-fi is a total joke half the time. There are several senior members that are great sources of knowledge, and that is the only reason the website still exists, but there are other people that come in and claim they know everything about audio and end up recommending that people should buy beats by dre. You really got to take that site with a massive grain of salt.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

No, its just the members here that disagree, disagree the loudest and act extremely condescending towards everyone that disagrees with their opinion. Your opinions seems very biased in general. I wouldn't take your advice. I'm not just talking about this thread either.
Quote:

Originally Posted by linkin93

OpenAL does not create 3D sound, but it is a good baseline for most games to use for a sound engine. I'd be happy if more games used it.

You might want to do some research as to how open al works.

Its a proprietary creative feature, btw.
Quote:

Once again, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, forcing 3D effects for games and especially music (which it was not really designed for, it's a "gamer" feature) destroys sound quality.

Fixed

 

[youra6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkin93

Because head-fi is an extremely reliable source...

Depends on the subforum on Head-fi... I don't want to a flamewar, but know that Head-Fi has paid sponsorships. They tend to safeguard them at all costs. Dyiaudio is much more credible in my eyes. Most of these guys are either engineers or experienced DYI'ers. They know their stuff.

 

[David164v8]

If I was to get a sound card, I'll just get whichever is cheaper. Would either of these sound cards be all that much worse than a Dac/Amp combo? I was thinking of buying a Sound Card, and then adding an external Amp. (Magni, O2, E12 or Epithany Acoustics amp...) I actually tried out DH yesterday on CS:S, and it wasn't quite as bad as I remember (still not great...). It was quite hard to tell front from back, but the sides worked well.

Edit: http://www.head-fi.org/t/583660/creative-titanium-hds-dac-vs-external-dac

I just read that, I think I'll just buy a sound card and an eternal Amp.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

What settings did you use with Dolby headphone?

There are different room sizes. 1 and 3 sound awful but I like room 2. Thats what most people use. I think that with the xonar drivers its labeled "livelier room" or something. Its the second option. One other thing that you have to do is set the amount of channels in the asus control panel to 6 or 8. I think that the DG only does 6. Thats how you'll get the most out of Dolby headphone.

It works better in some games than others. I don't use it in every game. Some games like Fallout New Vegas or Skyrim really seem to benefit.

I also just tried SBX on the sound blaster z and in game I don't really notice a hit in audio quality. I haven't used it enough to speak as to if I prefer it to Dolby headphone or not.

 

[Tjj226 Angel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

No, its just the members here that disagree, disagree the loudest and act extremely condescending towards everyone that disagrees with their opinion. Your opinions seems very biased in general. I wouldn't take your advice. I'm not just talking about this thread either.
You might want to do some research as to how open al works.

Its a proprietary creative feature, btw.
Fixed

No, it is just annoying to hear arguments that have been beaten to death on multiple forums over the entire internet being recreated in a thread where they don't belong to begin with especially considering the OP specifically said in the first post that he did not like that type of software.

If you aren't going to take my advice, then good for you. But then do yourself the favor and don't take any advice at all. Go out, find a decent ma/pa audio store and seriously test out audio equipment.

OR, I bet you if you go on the Head-fi website, you can go down to the meet page and find a meet in your area. You can bring all your stuff and listen to everyone else's.

I will even let you tell all the other members what an A-hole I am if you promise to listen to headphones with a proper sound stage.

 

[Tjj226 Angel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David164v8

If I was to get a sound card, I'll just get whichever is cheaper. Would either of these sound cards be all that much worse than a Dac/Amp combo? I was thinking of buying a Sound Card, and then adding an external Amp. (Magni, O2, E12 or Epithany Acoustics amp...) I actually tried out DH yesterday on CS:S, and it wasn't quite as bad as I remember (still not great...). It was quite hard to tell front from back, but the sides worked well.

Edit: http://www.head-fi.org/t/583660/creative-titanium-hds-dac-vs-external-dac

I just read that, I think I'll just buy a sound card and an eternal Amp.

The STX is the better one then. The dac it uses in particular is much better.

That being said, creative is due to release a update of the titanium HD. IDK when it will be out exactly, but if you are dead set on having a sound card, I would wait and pick up the new creative sound card.

A dac/amp would end up costing you less than if you were to use your sound card as the dac, and it will sound better because you will not have as much noise or interference from your computer as you would with a sound card.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the 598s don't really need a headphone amp. They do get some benefit from a amp, but not enough to justify the extra cost over a high end sound card.

 

[Nightingale]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel

The STX is the better one then. The dac it uses in particular is much better.

Both soundcards use the same DAC.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel

No, it is just annoying to hear arguments that have been beaten to death on multiple forums over the entire internet being recreated in a thread where they don't belong to begin with especially considering the OP specifically said in the first post that he did not like that type of software.

No, he said that he didn't like Dolby headphone when he tried it. I asked which settings that he tried to be sure that it was set up properly. The op never said anything about SBX or CMSS3d. Don't speak for other people and act all condescending when you don't have an argument. Grow up, kid. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you.

 

[Tjj226 Angel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightingale

Both soundcards use the same DAC.

No. The creative titanium HD uses the PCM 1794 and the asus essence uses the bur brown 1792A. The SNR is better on the the stx sound card. But.... http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-ZxR-PCIe-Sound/M/B00AQ5PK6I.htm this sound card will be coming out in about 9 days and it should be better than either the titanium or the stx.