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[Toms]Gaming In 64-Bit: Tom's Tests, Microsoft Weighs In

3581 Views 63 Replies 35 Participants Last post by  slickwilly
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Introduction

Five and a half years ago, AMD launched its Athlon 64 processor lineup, extolling the benefits of 64-bit computing and what it’d mean for the future. It didn’t take Intel long to follow suit on the desktop. From there, the infrastructureâ€"the operating systems and driversâ€"began falling into place to support more 64-bit software.

Today, 64-bit compatibility is almost a given. In fact, in the business space, where 64-bit computing has always been seen to have the most promise, applications have emerged that will only run in 64-bit. Even Small Business Server 2008, a relatively entry-level operating environment for businesses with up to 75 users, is now 64-bit-only due to its inclusion of Exchange Server 2007.

Why did Microsoft make the executive decision to launch its latest messaging platform exclusively in 64-bit trim? According to a blog post by Chris Mitchell in Microsoft’s Exchange Performance Engineering Team, the application uses 64-bit addressing to get its virtual hands on more system memory, preventing repeated trips back and forth to disk. In Chris’ example, an older version of Exchange might have access to 900 MB of a 32-bit server’s 4 GB ceiling. In a 4,000-user enterprise, that's 225 KB of RAM per userâ€"not nearly enough for all of the messages, rules, calendar entries, and contacts in a typical mailbox. Moving to 64-bit and upgrading servers to 10s of gigabytes (Chris’ recommendation in that same 4,000-user business is 24 GB) softens the load on storage.

But desktops aren’t nearly as hard-up for memory, right? We expected 64-bit computing to trickle down from the enterprise, but gamers want to know: where is the benefit from this technology today?

Zoom

Going To 64-Bit: Because You Can…

Enthusiasts running Socket AM2/AM2+ platforms commonly go with 2 GB or 4 GB memory kits. After all, even though DDR2 memory is cheap, 4 GB is still the enthusiast normâ€"8 GB is closer to workstation-class.

But when you buy a Core i7-based machine and step up to a triple-channel arrangement, it just doesn’t make sense to slide back the other direction and populate with three 1 GB modules. And so now you’re looking at 6 GB and a forced move to 64-bit computing if you want to actually use all of that memory.

…Or Because You Have To

Oh that’s rightâ€"I almost forgot. In case you've been living under a rock since AMD started preaching its 64-bit message, the fundamental limit on how much RAM a 32-bit operating system can see is 4 GB (2^32). Anything more simply won’t show up as installed memory.

Once you factor in device addressing, the magic number actually drops below 4 GB. That’s why it’s common for 32-bit systems with 4 GB to report 3 GB plus change in the Windows Device Manager. It’s not a Windows problem, though. Rather, that’s just how x86 architecture works.

Workarounds for reclaiming that lost memory have been introduced, of course. Intel’s Physical Address Extensions enabled 36-bit physical address tables, which did help in server environments by upping maximum memory size to 64 GB. However, according to a presentation given by Chuck Walbourn, software design engineer in Microsoft’s XNA Developer Connection at Gamefest 2008, PAE never really worked the way it should in with desktop operating systems, which would have needed to map the 4 GB virtual address space into the greater physical space. Drivers were the main problem, he said. They had application compatibility problems, assuming they always had 32-bits with which to work, not 36.

In addition to the 32-bit physical address lines, you’re also limited to 32-bits of virtual address space. Because one bit is reserved for shared kernel memory (used by all processes and the operating system), individual applications only have access to a maximum of 2 GB of private address space. Suddenly, you’re facing limitations that just might have a more profound impact on a desktop machine. Could taking the 64-bit plunge today actually make a significant difference in your gaming experience? That’s what we’ve set out to explore.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ming,2250.html

nice info
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!....
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That was a very good article! Thanks for posting!
and we can see that you get 0 better perfomanse with 64bit os, i think i will go back to 32bit because of these
Someone come and delete all the 4chan meme's from the first page.

t4ct1c47 Edit:

Done.
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Originally Posted by benko View Post
and we can see that you get 0 better perfomanse with 64bit os, i think i will go back to 32bit because of these
I guess you missed the part of reading the article....

And games aren't the only things you run in an OS... well, at least for most people.
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Originally Posted by benko View Post
and we can see that you get 0 better perfomanse with 64bit os, i think i will go back to 32bit because of these
Er, yeah, because almost all the games we play today were created for 32bit, so none of them were coded to take advantage of 64bit extensions and such. Even Crysis just had the 64bit thrown in there to appeal to 64bit gamers. That version of the game actually operates at a loss in most cases.

I'm surprised you didn't get the same gist that I did: that 64bit gaming hasn't taken off yet and that server 64bit is only just picking up. It'll be the next year or so before we see 64bit take hold properly and you can ALL thank Windows Vista for that, like it or not.
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Originally Posted by Kryten View Post
Someone come and delete all the 4chan meme's from the first page.
Have I ever told the story of how corn meal came to be? ~ Buzz Buzzkillington
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It's just spam. Nothing was added to the discussion.
Quote:

Originally Posted by benko View Post
and we can see that you get 0 better perfomanse with 64bit os, i think i will go back to 32bit because of these
Whenever I play Company of Heroes it uses about 2.7 GB of memory. That wouldn't be possible on a 32-bit machine.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryten View Post
Er, yeah, because almost all the games we play today were created for 32bit, so none of them were coded to take advantage of 64bit extensions and such. Even Crysis just had the 64bit thrown in there to appeal to 64bit gamers. That version of the game actually operates at a loss in most cases.
Crysis didn't just have 64-bit thrown in..... It required 64-bit for development. The developers left the 64-bit extention in for release. The 64-bit extention is needed for map making.
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Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
I guess you missed the part of reading the article....

And games aren't the only things you run in an OS... well, at least for most people.
but the article is specifically "Gaming in 64-bit"


but yah should have compared stuff like boot times, copying files, burning dvds etc.
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Tom's fails again.

64bit is useful because as of right now there are many games that use more than 2GB. For those of us with sub $1000 computers we can't use 3GB without losing dual channel: its either 2 or 4.

By testing on an i7, with triple channel memory they remove the memory limitation, since, as shown in the test, very few games use more than 3GB.

Were they to do the test with a Core 2, or even an i7 in dual channel mode, I guarantee you the results would be much different.

In Crysis warhead the difference between 2GB and 4GB for me is about 50%, since Warhead running under Vista through Steam uses over 2GB even on medium.
Quote:


Originally Posted by nathris
View Post

Tom's fails again.

64bit is useful because as of right now there are many games that use more than 2GB. For those of us with sub $1000 computers we can't use 3GB without losing dual channel: its either 2 or 4.

By testing on an i7, with triple channel memory they remove the memory limitation, since, as shown in the test, very few games use more than 3GB.

Were they to do the test with a Core 2, or even an i7 in dual channel mode, I guarantee you the results would be much different.

In Crysis warhead the difference between 2GB and 4GB for me is about 50%, since Warhead running under Vista through Steam uses over 2GB even on medium.


quite right
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Quote:


Originally Posted by DuckieHo
View Post

Crysis didn't just have 64-bit thrown in..... It required 64-bit for development. The developers left the 64-bit extention in for release. The 64-bit extention is needed for map making.

Didn't know that, myself. Why'd they make us wait for Warhead 64bit, then?

Am I right about the other stuff, though? Most games these days are only 32bit?
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8GB is not closer to work station class for the true enthusiast. Only thing i have to say.
I remeber when Crysis first came and Crytek siad you would need a Quad to play the game maxed out, then I beleave it was in Maximum PC the did a bunch of benchies and showed that Crysis was only using 2 of the 4 cores at max settings in DX10 but that what was really slowing the game down was it's high use of virtuall memory, going to a 64 bit system with 8 gig of ram and turning windows page file off the game really showed a lot of improvment in play and graphical detail but alas Crysis is still the exception rather than the norm when it comes to advanced PC gaming
IMHO 64 bit is the only way to fly when Win 7 64 bit is released I will buy it but for now I exsist in winxp32 bit using 3 of my 4 gigs of ram

(edit) dual booting win7 just for Crysis and Warhead
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Quote:


Originally Posted by slickwilly
View Post

I remeber when Crysis first came and Crytek siad you would need a Quad to play the game maxed out, then I beleave it was in Maximum PC the did a bunch of benchies and showed that Crysis was only using 2 of the 4 cores at max settings in DX10 but that what was really slowing the game down was it's high use of virtuall memory, going to a 64 bit system with 8 gig of ram and turning windows page file off the game really showed a lot of improvment in play and graphical detail but alas Crysis is still the exception rather than the norm when it comes to advanced PC gaming
IMHO 64 bit is the only way to fly when Win 7 64 bit is released I will buy it but for now I exsist in winxp32 bit using 3 of my 4 gigs of ram

(edit) dual booting win7 just for Crysis and Warhead

What a waste of that 285.
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2
Quote:


Originally Posted by slickwilly
View Post

I remeber when Crysis first came and Crytek siad you would need a Quad to play the game maxed out, then I beleave it was in Maximum PC the did a bunch of benchies and showed that Crysis was only using 2 of the 4 cores at max settings in DX10 but that what was really slowing the game down was it's high use of virtuall memory, going to a 64 bit system with 8 gig of ram and turning windows page file off the game really showed a lot of improvment in play and graphical detail but alas Crysis is still the exception rather than the norm when it comes to advanced PC gaming
IMHO 64 bit is the only way to fly when Win 7 64 bit is released I will buy it but for now I exsist in winxp32 bit using 3 of my 4 gigs of ram

(edit) dual booting win7 just for Crysis and Warhead

Ever heard of punctuation?

Geez man, you had some very valid points, but sadly no one will read them because you don't use proper grammer. It's in the TOS, just take your time and type professionally. In the end, it will make you a better person and benefit the site more.
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