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Discussion Starter #1
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The U.S. House surprised everyone when it voted the Email Privacy Act (EPA) bill unanimously on Wednesday. The bill has been stalled in Congress for many years, mainly due to lobbying from law enforcement and other civil agencies such as the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). The EPA bill ought to modernize the three-decades-old Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) by requiring a warrant for all data requests for private communications.
Quote:
There are also 25 Senators who have already cosponsored a similar bill in the Senate, written by by Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Mike Lee (R-UT). They said in an official statement:

"Today's 419-0 House vote for the Email Privacy Act is an historic step toward updating our privacy laws for the digital age. It should go without saying that law enforcement agents should have to get a warrant to read Americans' emails or retrieve their sensitive information from the cloud - yet that is not what our statutes currently require. It is long past time to reassure the American people that their online communications are protected from warrantless searches.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/us-house-passes-epa-unanimously,31699.html

Not hopeful that this will make it through the Senate (at least not in it's current form) but it will be interesting to see how this and the recent Microsoft lawsuit against the US government turns out.
 

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If anyone is still using an American or free email provider they're doing it wrong.
 

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This won't do anything, the warrants will just be rubber stamped by the secret FISA court.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
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Originally Posted by Diffident View Post

This won't do anything, the warrants will just be rubber stamped by the secret FISA court.
Which is partly why Microsoft's lawsuit is still important and shows the one flaw with this bill: the fact that the person whose data is being collected never has to be notified by the government. When they use a warrant to search your home or business you have the right to see the warrant (and obviously their presence lets you know they are executing the warrant). If your electronic info is being collected due to a warrant then you should have to notified, at least after a certain amount of time has expired (with an extension of that time only grantable by a judge's orders because of valid, provable reasons). Transparency is obviously needed.
 

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The FISA Court is not used for your run of the mill investigations. FISA warrants are issued at behest of the US Attorney General on matters of national security, foreign intelligence gathering and other emergencies. It is not used to circumvent due process during normal investigations. Now I do feel that it has been abused since 9/11 and the subsequent passing of the Patriot Act and other such pieces of legislation.

As a interesting point to this discussion I would highly recommend reading the copy of the USSID 18 document or United States Signals Intelligence Directive 18. This document lays how the intelligence community handles SIGINT inadvertently gathered on US citizens without a warrant. This document is issued by the NSA and is used by itself and any other agencies collecting SIGINT. You break this directive you will end up in jail, period. My dad, a 29 year navy veteran, was up to his eye balls in this sort of stuff for his entire navy career.
 

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I'm certain that this will be squashed as it moves upward, but I hope people don't take that as a total defeat.

This is a major step in the right direction and it proves that there is still some semblance of hope for individual rights going forward.

The members who wrote and passed this bill, despite all other misgivings you may perceive from them, just did you a monumental service. I hope the public still has the faculties necessary to reward and encourage each and every one of them to continue doing something for the benefit of the future of the country.

It might be long overdue. It will probably get squashed. Each and every one of them might have played a hand in letting the situation get so out of control in the first place. Nevertheless, they need to be encouraged to turn this new leaf.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffident View Post

This won't do anything, the warrants will just be rubber stamped by the secret FISA court.
It's a step in the right direction but it's also true that warrants mean nothing nowadays. There's many judges being bribed to sign warrants (usually with tax payer money which is downright frustrating).

If the system wants you it's going to get you. Innocent or not. I mean look at Making a Murderer. So much evidence that points towards him being framed, yet the system still took him and repeatably broke laws to do so.
 

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This bill has zero chance to pass the Senate.

Most people in the house are honest people, the opposite is true when it comes to senators.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
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Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post

This bill has zero chance to pass the Senate.

Most people in the house are honest people, the opposite is true when it comes to senators.
True. Hilarious how it will probably be squashed in the Senate when it passed in the House 419-0, LOL.
 

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i'll leave this here:
https://act.eff.org/action/don-t-let-privacy-law-get-stuck-in-1986
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Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

I mean look at Making a Murderer. So much evidence that points towards him being framed, yet the system still took him and repeatably broke laws to do so.
please don't use that as an example - totally horrid movie; imho, a complete farce.

BUT point taken; the "system" is full of people who were railroaded for the sake of convenience to relieve public/political pressure than to find who was actually guilty.
 

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Originally Posted by madpossum View Post

Which is partly why Microsoft's lawsuit is still important and shows the one flaw with this bill: the fact that the person whose data is being collected never has to be notified by the government. When they use a warrant to search your home or business you have the right to see the warrant (and obviously their presence lets you know they are executing the warrant). If your electronic info is being collected due to a warrant then you should have to notified, at least after a certain amount of time has expired (with an extension of that time only grantable by a judge's orders because of valid, provable reasons). Transparency is obviously needed.
Except you have no defense against that warrant. They will give it to you seconds before they completely demolish your property. The warrant system in general is flawed and needs updating.

In regards to the OP, I'm still waiting for the "but" in this bill.
 

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Originally Posted by madpossum View Post

True. Hilarious how it will probably be squashed in the Senate when it passed in the House 419-0, LOL.
Sends a clear message to the Senate, the Administrative branch, and especially the public, though.

That's what we need right now, unequivocally. I'd love to see this as a topic to be discussed at the election debates for a period greater than 30 seconds. It'd be a great alternative to the love fests and mud slinging we've been seeing.

Unfortunately, the broadcasters probably don't care much for facilitating such a conversation. I'm not even sure if the public understands the gravity, there, either. And even if they did, it's even more questionable if they're be moved sufficiently to take more than 30 seconds worth of interest.

We're at a point in time where the public is like the embodiment of Nero himself, and the government seems to be encouraging and reveling in it.

It's refreshing to come to places like OCN where some semblance of priority and critical thinking still exists.
 

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IDK why rights activists are so worried..

The politicians themselves have the most to hide if digital scrutiny is continuously tightened, and regardless of policies, the NSA already knows all the pr0no you're looking at.. so ... hahahahhahahaha
 

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Not sure this is going to get squashed in Senate unless Snitch McConnell decides he wants to tow the party lines for another power grab. A unanimous vote is rare for the house, especially when they continue to craft so many crony bills to push.

I have a feeling that this might get heated if more than half of the Senate blocks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post

IDK why rights activists are so worried..

The politicians themselves have the most to hide if digital scrutiny is continuously tightened, and regardless of policies, the NSA already knows all the pr0no you're looking at.. so ... hahahahhahahaha
Worrying about the historically proven inevitable abuses of the powerful against the many is not "right wing activism".

It's not exclusively or even evidently a value of right wing politics. And if it were merely an political point of view that could be boiled down to a single group, you could not discredit the historical relevancy of tyranny by discrediting said group. Pick of a history book, please.

When did individual rights and the balance of power become such a trivial concept to people?

It doesn't matter how naive you are. You should be able to see the problem with allowing the people who write law and direct the enforcement of that law to exercise that power without meaningful, substantive restraints. "Having the most to hide" is not a problem when you're the one writing and enforcing laws that prevent regular people from conducting a normal life without having their most trivial activities recorded and potentially quantified by high-society groups and their hounds.
 

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Originally Posted by Omega X View Post

Not sure this is going to get squashed in Senate unless Snitch McConnell decides he wants to tow the party lines for another power grab. A unanimous vote is rare for the house, especially when they continue to craft so many crony bills to push.

I have a feeling that this might get heated if more than half of the Senate blocks.
Unless there's something else at work here ..... Get out your tin foil hats.
 

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I agree with this. As for additional red tape, more likely they were going to get a warrant to their house anyways. Might as well get both while your there. They could even be on the same form, just 2 checkboxes. IMO the warrant is there because it forces them to have a legitimate reason to invade your privacy. This is no different from your electronic communications. I personally am a big government supported (dont hate me) , but since we have our rights within our property, this should have been already tied with it.

I wonder how this affects court cases and stuff where the lawyers have you print out all your emails over the past year.
 

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so now I am able to search up bombs, talk about bombs make a bomb all at the same time without having to worry about the FBI tracking me.. whooo lucky me
rolleyes.gif
 

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One thing that will always trump this, national security. If a Federal agency determines that whatever they're investigating is outside the normal bounds of investigative priority and can be escalated to a 'national security' situation, they'll just do it anyways. Most of those situations 99.9% of the population will never encounter even if they tried. And maybe half of the remaining 0.1% deserve to get what's coming to them anyways. It's not as simple as 'everyone gets equal rights, in every circumstance, period'. It looks nice on paper, sounds nice in practice, but there is always situations that will arise that will abuse that mantra to suit their own admittedly evil path. There is a difference between 'rights', and 'justice'. More often then not anymore.. justice is left by the wayside while some whiny piece of human waste complains about their 'rights'.
 
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