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128 PCIE lanes? That's just banana's.

Guess I won't have to look for which USB port is 3.1 anymore and can finally throw away all those dirty SATA drives.

Now if only I used some type of software that would actually see benefits from 8-channel memory...
 
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Just living in a van...
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Why would AMD want people to buy Threadripper instead of Epyc? If they buy AMD at all, AMD is happy.
I think the bigger problem is some folks (like myself) simply won't buy Threadripper until motherboards offer all the features I'm actually looking for. The chips themselves are great, but the board solutions have been gaming-centric and are, in my mind, incomplete without official ECC support. I suspect this will not be an issue this coming generation and I'm particularly curious about the WRX80.
 

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I think the bigger problem is some folks (like myself) simply won't buy Threadripper until motherboards offer all the features I'm actually looking for. The chips themselves are great, but the board solutions have been gaming-centric and are, in my mind, incomplete without official ECC support. I suspect this will not be an issue this coming generation and I'm particularly curious about the WRX80.
https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X399-DESIGNARE-EX-rev-10/support#support-doc

Official ECC support since April 2018. Done.

Not that it matters. Epyc and SP3 boards do not cost much more than Threadripper/X399, and then you get to use cheaper buffered ECC, and much more of it.
 

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I think the bigger problem is some folks (like myself) simply won't buy Threadripper until motherboards offer all the features I'm actually looking for. The chips themselves are great, but the board solutions have been gaming-centric and are, in my mind, incomplete without official ECC support. I suspect this will not be an issue this coming generation and I'm particularly curious about the WRX80.
Why would you go TR over Epyc in an application where ECC is necessary?

(actually asking, I have no clue)
 

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Just living in a van...
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https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X399-DESIGNARE-EX-rev-10/support#support-doc

Official ECC support since April 2018. Done.

Not that it matters. Epyc and SP3 boards do not cost much more than Threadripper/X399, and then you get to use cheaper buffered ECC, and much more of it.
Why would you go TR over Epyc in an application where ECC is necessary?

(actually asking, I have no clue)
I apologize, my post was not complete.

Clock speed and cost would be the two primary factors. While Epyc motherboards are priced reasonably well, equivalent (or near-equivalent) 1P chips are notably more expensive than their (faster) TR counterparts. Additionally, the need for ECC compatibility is not necessarily (for me, at least) an immediate concern. A few years down the line as I inevitably replace this hypothetical computer it would probably become my home server. Of course, plans change and all that, but I like having the flexibility - especially at the price point we're talking about.

The Designare has actually been in my watch list for a while now, but I'm 'hoping' to find a board with 10g and a somewhat less ostentatious design. With the exception of Asus, I'm concerned about the ability to shut off all the RGB lighting on these boards without needing to install proprietary software. I know Asus lets you manage it within the BIOS and AsRock seemingly does not (at least I haven't found it yet), but I don't know about other brands.
 

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I apologize, my post was not complete.

Clock speed and cost would be the two primary factors. While Epyc motherboards are priced reasonably well, equivalent (or near-equivalent) 1P chips are notably more expensive than their (faster) TR counterparts. Additionally, the need for ECC compatibility is not necessarily (for me, at least) an immediate concern. A few years down the line as I inevitably replace this hypothetical computer it would probably become my home server. Of course, plans change and all that, but I like having the flexibility - especially at the price point we're talking about.

The Designare has actually been in my watch list for a while now, but I'm 'hoping' to find a board with 10g and a somewhat less ostentatious design. With the exception of Asus, I'm concerned about the ability to shut off all the RGB lighting on these boards without needing to install proprietary software. I know Asus lets you manage it within the BIOS and AsRock seemingly does not (at least I haven't found it yet), but I don't know about other brands.
The Designare has a whole one RGB, on the SB, and can be disabled/changed in BIOS without software.

Forget 10G as a board feature entirely. 10GBase-T (the only 10g they put onboard on consumer boards) is a bad and expensive path to go down with no future. What you want (provided you have not already paid into CAT6) is SFP+, as there is a lot of SFP+ gear for cheap on ebay, as well as QSFP+ (40g) because businesses are upgrading from 10g/40g to 25g/100g. You can pick up a Intel X520-DA1 (or DA2) for like $40-50, fibre itself is actually cheap, and so are 10g transceivers. ...Or if you're like 10ft from your switch you can just buy a $10 DAC and not deal with any of that.
 
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What you want (provided you have not already paid into CAT6) is SFP+, as there is a lot of SFP+ gear for cheap on ebay, as well as QSFP+ (40g) because businesses are upgrading from 10g/40g to 25g/100g.
Good advice! I really like my 40GbE LAN using Ebay hardware. :)

We need to drop CAT to get > ~5GbE in a practical way, this is why 10GbE is still not really standard, we want to keep CAT and it is not really good enough for 10GbE even today. If I were to get on-board 10GbE I would want it to use SFP+.
 

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Thanks for the input you two, that is certainly something worth considering.
 

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Why would AMD want people to buy Threadripper instead of Epyc? If they buy AMD at all, AMD is happy.
EPYC is primarily aimed at the server market where performance-per-watt is king. In the desktop market, efficiency is sacrificed for outright performance - which tends to suit desktop-class applications where workloads (such as rendering, software compilation) benefit from the increased clock speeds on offer. If AMD only wanted EPYC in high-end desktop and professional workstations, Threadripper simply would not exist.
 

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EPYC is primarily aimed at the server market where performance-per-watt is king. In the desktop market, efficiency is sacrificed for outright performance - which tends to suit desktop-class applications where workloads (such as rendering, software compilation) benefit from the increased clock speeds on offer. If AMD only wanted EPYC in high-end desktop and professional workstations, Threadripper simply would not exist.
Know whats faster than a 3.0Ghz 32-core in an application that can make use of 32 cores? Two 2.25ghz 32 cores. Threadripper does not hold the performance crown over Epyc.

Threadripper exists as a medium ground between people who need more, but don't need everything, just like Intel's HEDT. Also just like Intel's HEDT, it does not have some features that are considered important to workstations, such as buffered ECC. AMD has no reason to allow Threadripper to directly encroach upon Epyc's space when you can buy Epyc for just that little bit more.

Why would AMD shoot Epyc in the foot when they have no reason to do so?

Thanks for the input you two, that is certainly something worth considering.
To put it in context and clarify, I got;
  • An IBM Blade G8000 with 2xSFP+ expansion card for $100
  • An IBM Blade G8124 for $400
  • Two 75ft cyan multimode fibre cables for $25
  • Four Arista transceivers for $40
  • Four X520-DA2s for $130
  • Six 3ft Dell DACs for $30
This allows my two desktops to be connected at 10g, my gameserver connected at 10g, my main server to be connected at 40g (4x10gs, it's ESXi so servers are split between the NICs), and my PFSense box connected at 10g, with everything else including wifi connected at 1g (which connects to the G8124 via 10g).

Enterprise hardware does come with compatibility concerns to keep in mind, but the potential for upgradeability is far higher if that is a route you want to go. Most people do not need a 24-port 10g switch, but if you can work with a 24/48 1g that has a SFP+ uplink or two for your server, that can be had really cheap.
 

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Threadripper exists as a medium ground between people who need more, but don't need everything, just like Intel's HEDT. Also just like Intel's HEDT, it does not have some features that are considered important to workstations, such as buffered ECC. AMD has no reason to allow Threadripper to directly encroach upon Epyc's space when you can buy Epyc for just that little bit more.

It will be interesting to see if the 32+ core threadrippers of this new 3rd gen allow all those features or not, especially on the top end chipset. I would imagine with the 8 channel memory it has, that it is simply using parts straight from Epyc now
 

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It will be interesting to see if the 32+ core threadrippers of this new 3rd gen allow all those features or not, especially on the top end chipset. I would imagine with the 8 channel memory it has, that it is simply using parts straight from Epyc now
Threadripper (Gen 1 anyway) already was Epyc parts, they just didn't run all the pins. :p
 

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wh0ever is selling the most lanes for the least $ come re-up time gets my money, & it seems AMD knows that. :D

you're gonna be hard pressed to find me running an AMD card though, at least until they've got at least a 2080ti contender.
 

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I really hope there are at least a few 3rd gen threadripper chips for existing X399 boards. Would leave a pretty sour taste in my mouth for AMD to abandon first-gen Threadripper buyers.
 

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Know whats faster than a 3.0Ghz 32-core in an application that can make use of 32 cores? Two 2.25ghz 32 cores. Threadripper does not hold the performance crown over Epyc.

Threadripper exists as a medium ground between people who need more, but don't need everything, just like Intel's HEDT. Also just like Intel's HEDT, it does not have some features that are considered important to workstations, such as buffered ECC. AMD has no reason to allow Threadripper to directly encroach upon Epyc's space when you can buy Epyc for just that little bit more.

Why would AMD shoot Epyc in the foot when they have no reason to do so?
It's a matter of marketing not technology. System builders are offering EPYC workstations and Threadripper servers today, so the crossovers are already happening. Clearly however, AMD's own marketing has EPYC fairly and squarely in the server space (which makes the most amount of sense - workstation parts are not best suited to 24/7 workloads). Additionally, the performance crown you allude to is highly dependent upon the workload - will a EPYC 7xx2P outrun a Zen 2 Threadripper with the same core count at stock settings? Obviously not, given that the Threadripper part will (presumably) come with higher clock speeds out-of-the-box.

Additionally, not every HEDT or Professional workload is that heavily multi-threaded - many simply are not, but still require a large amount of system memory to process the data sets; from what I have read, CAD/CAM applications are like this. Having said that, I am sure that those same said workloads can demand more system memory than what a Threadripper-based system can support, so EPYC would be the correct choice.

I can see no reason to actively castrate Threadripper re: ECC memory and keep it in the "prosumer" space - if someone really needs an EPYC-based workstation (for the workload you mentioned), I'm sure Velocity Micro will build one for them. Conversely, I can't see the big three OEMs offering Threadripper servers, even with ECC memory support - not when they can make much more money selling EPYC-based servers instead (which in turn are better suited to 24/7 server workloads anyway).

I think it would be better if AMD worked with their partners to create a clearer marketing message - Ryzen for mainstream (which is very clear), Threadripper for HEDT and Professional Workstation, EPYC for servers and (more demanding - memory, memory bandwidth or threads) Professional Workstation.
 

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It's a matter of marketing not technology. System builders are offering EPYC workstations and Threadripper servers today, so the crossovers are already happening. Clearly however, AMD's own marketing has EPYC fairly and squarely in the server space (which makes the most amount of sense - workstation parts are not best suited to 24/7 workloads). Additionally, the performance crown you allude to is highly dependent upon the workload - will a EPYC 7xx2P outrun a Zen 2 Threadripper with the same core count at stock settings? Obviously not, given that the Threadripper part will (presumably) come with higher clock speeds out-of-the-box.

Additionally, not every HEDT or Professional workload is that heavily multi-threaded - many simply are not, but still require a large amount of system memory to process the data sets; from what I have read, CAD/CAM applications are like this. Having said that, I am sure that those same said workloads can demand more system memory than what a Threadripper-based system can support, so EPYC would be the correct choice.

I can see no reason to actively castrate Threadripper re: ECC memory and keep it in the "prosumer" space - if someone really needs an EPYC-based workstation (for the workload you mentioned), I'm sure Velocity Micro will build one for them. Conversely, I can't see the big three OEMs offering Threadripper servers, even with ECC memory support - not when they can make much more money selling EPYC-based servers instead (which in turn are better suited to 24/7 server workloads anyway).

I think it would be better if AMD worked with their partners to create a clearer marketing message - Ryzen for mainstream (which is very clear), Threadripper for HEDT and Professional Workstation, EPYC for servers and (more demanding - memory, memory bandwidth or threads) Professional Workstation.
Yes. AMD created market segmentation in order to make more money. This is normal.

Of course there are workstations that use Epyc. A workstation is just a professional PC that sits under a desk instead of a datacenter.

No one is buying a Threadripper chip for actual server duty. People make stupid products all the time. Some of LTTs best videos are about the dumb things they find online, you should watch some.

AMD's own marketing has Epyc as wherever system builders want Epyc to be.

The EPYC 7371 kept up with Threadripper 1st gen fine, as well as have the ability to go 2P. AMD has not yet announced a higher clock speed chip for Epyc 2, but it is not abnormal for AMD or Intel to do something similar. On that topic, were you aware that you could configure Epyc's TDP above stock values?


If your workload is not that heavily multi-threaded, then you do not need Threadripper. Buy a normal Ryzen chip, they support unbuffered ECC as well. If you need single thread and a lot of ram, then buy Intel (who is still better at single thread anyway), a 7371, or wait until an equivalent is released for Epyc 2.

Threadripper and Ryzen do support ECC. Specifically, unbuffered ECC.

Product separation is and will always be a thing. AMD chooses to separate their HEDT and Professional lineups by limiting IO and a few features, but compared to Intel, this separation is nothing.

Why would the big three be making extra money selling a more expensive chip that they need to buy? CPUs are not where they make money, they make money on support and ram/storage upgrades.

Product lines are already very clear;


  • Ryzen is mainstream, the same as Z370/Z390
  • Threadripper is prosumer HEDT, the same as X299
  • Epyc is professional workstation and servers, the same as Xeon.
Your own last sentence is more confusing than their current layout due to product overlap. AMD does not want Threadripper to step on Epyc's toes, so they have separated the segments. They will eventually offer higher clocked lower core count Epyc 2 chips like the 7371, I am certain.
 

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Now if only I used some type of software that would actually see benefits from 8-channel memory...
Yes indeed, that is at the heart of whether or not gamers upgrade to this new platform. But I suppose hardware vendors like AMD have to put the gear out there first before game devs can take advantage of it.
 

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On that topic, were you aware that you could configure Epyc's TDP above stock values?
Actually no, I wasn't.

If your workload is not that heavily multi-threaded, then you do not need Threadripper. Buy a normal Ryzen chip, they support unbuffered ECC as well.
Not enough of it though. Threadripper supports much more system RAM (but you already know that :)).

  • Ryzen is mainstream, the same as Z370/Z390
  • Threadripper is prosumer HEDT, the same as X299
  • Epyc is professional workstation and servers, the same as Xeon.
Your own last sentence is more confusing than their current layout due to product overlap. AMD does not want Threadripper to step on Epyc's toes, so they have separated the segments. They will eventually offer higher clocked lower core count Epyc 2 chips like the 7371, I am certain.
Since EPYC is very clearly aimed at the server market and Threadripper very clearly is not, where is the overlap? Additionally, AMD does not need to mirror everything that Intel does (which is why Ryzen is leading the desktop CPU market, at least in terms of core count).

The server market is where AMD is making their money; from my perspective, having Threadripper certified/validated for professional workstation use gives them a leg up on Intel by offering a lower-cost option in that market and in the HEDT market and at the same time, if someone really needs a 2P, 128-core, 2TB RAM workstation the EPYC option is there.

In other words
  • Ryzen (mainstream PC)
  • Threadripper (HEDT & Professional workstation)
  • EPYC (ultra-high end Professional workstation)
Either way, AMD needs to work to move Threadripper away from all of that gaming crap. That Alienware tie-up was terrible move IMO.
 

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AMd TRX/WRX 80 workstation exiting

Well i am really wondering what the wrx80 will be
But to me looks like AMD is going to compete with intel even at its best products ever, and to be honest it looks darn impressive.
Got the feeling Lisa Su have made intel to feel comfortable, and they had nothing to fear from the smaller competition
And now has proven to be a force to recon with, because these newer models are so darn impressive.
For sure not all out there are going to be happy with these multi core monsters, but whatever they yell AMD has impressed even Intel themselfs
Still AMD has a small part of the pie,but its clear they made a superb product for most people out there.
I still admit for certain games Intel still has the best product, but what must be painful for Intel is that their dominance on the multi core HEDT/WKS market is being targeted by AMD as well.
And more amazing is that AMD got a super product beating every current cpu of them in the HEDT by a large margin.
I have great respect towards AMD that they where able to keep all of these things to darn secret and that the employees has been so darn tight lipped that almost nothing has been leaked.
Actually even a close friend which works for AMD germany did not reveal much more than wait and see, we will surprise you all ... we have more in store.....
Now i know what he meant by these words and am stunned indeed, because in the paste i have seen some of these products tested by him ...little did i know those where the test examples i see now being released much more matured and improved.
What stuns me is that i thought that these very fast cpu was an overclocked one and was only tested to see how far they could get the clocks stable. lol now i never will trust the words he says if he tests something, and will think 10 times about what he actually said :D
However i am one of those people which will not leak this info ever, until the person/company in question has giving me permission on paper todo so.
All the things i have seen have never been revealed, other than that i saw some test products being pushed to its limits, also without revealing what the i saw in real.
Even though i never signed an NDA from AMD, however i always worked in similar situations where leaking info could damage or be harmful for companies or governments where i often had to sign a NDA, which where part of my contracts with them.
Very impressive is all i can say for the whole AMD workforce getting this on the market and give us a opportunity to buy such powerful products for much fairer prices.
Intel should learn a lesson from this for ever, do not rest and keep the same product for ages before coming with something new and impressive.
So i really hope that those will sport those things i like to see for the things i have in mind and can test further on the w10 workstation with ReFS.
However it would be nice if i could do some gaming, during the wait for results from the monster cpu xD.
We now know that their probably are almost always enough core free to have at least 4 to 16 thread available to do so with the coming super cpu models
 

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Well i am really wondering what the wrx80 will be
But to me looks like AMD is going to compete with intel even at its best products ever, and to be honest it looks darn impressive.
Got the feeling Lisa Su have made intel to feel comfortable, and they had nothing to fear from the smaller competition
And now has proven to be a force to recon with, because these newer models are so darn impressive.
For sure not all out there are going to be happy with these multi core monsters, but whatever they yell AMD has impressed even Intel themselfs
Still AMD has a small part of the pie,but its clear they made a superb product for most people out there.
I still admit for certain games Intel still has the best product, but what must be painful for Intel is that their dominance on the multi core HEDT/WKS market is being targeted by AMD as well.
And more amazing is that AMD got a super product beating every current cpu of them in the HEDT by a large margin.
I have great respect towards AMD that they where able to keep all of these things to darn secret and that the employees has been so darn tight lipped that almost nothing has been leaked.
Actually even a close friend which works for AMD germany did not reveal much more than wait and see, we will surprise you all ... we have more in store.....
Now i know what he meant by these words and am stunned indeed, because in the paste i have seen some of these products tested by him ...little did i know those where the test examples i see now being released much more matured and improved.
What stuns me is that i thought that these very fast cpu was an overclocked one and was only tested to see how far they could get the clocks stable. lol now i never will trust the words he says if he tests something, and will think 10 times about what he actually said :D
However i am one of those people which will not leak this info ever, until the person/company in question has giving me permission on paper todo so.
All the things i have seen have never been revealed, other than that i saw some test products being pushed to its limits, also without revealing what the i saw in real.
Even though i never signed an NDA from AMD, however i always worked in similar situations where leaking info could damage or be harmful for companies or governments where i often had to sign a NDA, which where part of my contracts with them.
Very impressive is all i can say for the whole AMD workforce getting this on the market and give us a opportunity to buy such powerful products for much fairer prices.
Intel should learn a lesson from this for ever, do not rest and keep the same product for ages before coming with something new and impressive.
So i really hope that those will sport those things i like to see for the things i have in mind and can test further on the w10 workstation with ReFS.
However it would be nice if i could do some gaming, during the wait for results from the monster cpu xD.
We now know that their probably are almost always enough core free to have at least 4 to 16 thread available to do so with the coming super cpu models

You don't need to leak anything, it's pretty clear that AMD can and will go for the only thing that Intel has left (besides AVX 512) in the prosumer/workstation market: outlandish mindshare quota, aka 6 channel memory socket FCLGA3647, and they're going to do it with WX 48 and 64 core CPU models with 8 channel memory (notice how the new 24 and 32 core models no longer sport the WX moniker, they're reserved for what's to come). If Intel can charge $3k for a CPU, so can and will AMD (and then some more).
 
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