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Moreover- there were many examples of much lower 1% FPS numbers on RTX 2080 while Radeon VII was closer to RTX 2080TI 1% FPS numbers, also some games had small stuttering with 2080, so AVG FPS it's not all the story and choosing factor.
if RTX 2080 had 11GB like 1080TI- yes it would be better choice over Radeon VII.
There is no clear answer- it's depends on the games U prefer and other usage.
 

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Performance is the bible
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A 5870 was still the obvious choice even though the GTX 480 outperformed the 5870 and crushed it in DirectX 11 titles.
The 5870 cost 100$ less than the 480, but the 480 was 10% faster.
So the comparison between them is irrelevant to this case.

We are comparing two cards that cost the same.

It has been awhile since we had that "option" of equal price cards. Every time, either AMD or nvidia, when they got a faster card, they bumped the price up, or put their pricing / performance just between cards, so they weren't really a full on direct comparison.

He is saying that with a 5% difference you and noone won't feel any difference in the two seats.....simple as that.
But isn't it more than 5%? TPU showed 10% average difference, same as HOCP and TH. Anand showed 7%, G3D showed 11%, KG showed 4%.
 

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Smug, Jaded, Enervated.
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I called it a perfect affordable multithread CPU. Because that is what it is. Its better than Intel in terms of MT Performance/Price while achiving around the same efficiency. So in this usecase its better than Intel (considering the price).

Now we know what ryzen is good at (shoudnt you know it before?).

Now tell me what is Vega 2 good at? I mean beside turning energy into heat.
How about you read my post just above this one you've made, that should answer your question.

Moreover- there were many examples of much lower 1% FPS numbers on RTX 2080 while Radeon VII was closer to RTX 2080TI 1% FPS numbers, also some games had small stuttering with 2080, so AVG FPS it's not all the story and choosing factor.
if RTX 2080 had 11GB like 1080TI- yes it would be better choice over Radeon VII.
There is no clear answer- it's depends on the games U prefer and other usage.
Or in any Australians case, like me, it depends if you feel like spending $1000 more for marginally better performance at 4K with a 2080ti over an RVII.

Mind you, I am pretty sure that is an FE in those charts, but even so, to have a water cooled 2080Ti, that's even more cost involved, the price of pre-waterblocked custom third party vendor 2080Ti's in Oz is $2.5K...the price of a RVII, a waterblock, and the 4K monitor to accompany it combined, value for money!!! Stop kvetching and just buy it goyim! Nvidia can make the most energy efficient GPU whenever they please!..(but they can't make a card that actually convincingly beats the competition and isn't twice the price).
 

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Moreover- there were many examples of much lower 1% FPS numbers on RTX 2080 while Radeon VII was closer to RTX 2080TI 1% FPS numbers, also some games had small stuttering with 2080, so AVG FPS it's not all the story and choosing factor.
if RTX 2080 had 11GB like 1080TI- yes it would be better choice over Radeon VII.
There is no clear answer- it's depends on the games U prefer and other usage.
wonder why fcat tests disappeared from the scene.....
 

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Tank destroyer and a god
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wonder why fcat tests disappeared from the scene.....
Interest of Nvidia in Gsync got much lower, and most of players still follow the simplest number = FPS.
 

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PC Evangelist
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:rolleyes:

That's the kind of bold statement that should be reserved for a card that beats its rival by a LOT more than just 5% overall (or less, depending on what review you are reading).

1. It has less features - The only feature of note that the 2080 has over the RVII is Nvidia's very limited ray-tracing functionality, a feature that is about as useful on the 2080 as the 16GB of HBM2 on the RVII (which in and of itself is a feature the RVII has over the 2080)
2. It cost the same as a RTX 2080 - A quick perusal of Amazon shows that the vast majority of 2080's for sale are far more expensive than the RVII's (generally around $800 vs $700). MSRP is not the same as actual retail pricing.
3. It runs hot - The RVII only really runs "hot" when overclocked. Out of the box it runs at perfectly acceptable temps.
4. it's loud - It is loud (though the fan curve issues early on have mitigated this issue somewhat). If noise levels are your primary concern then the 2080 is a better choice, but most people don't care that much about noise (and the RVII is a great WC candidate).
5. It uses too much power - RVII uses more power than the 2080 does, but where do you get the idea that it uses "too much" power? Its not like its sucking down 600W or anything...
6. It's overall 5% slower than a RTX 2080 - To be honest, +/- 5% is nearly within margin of error territory and is in no way so much of an advantage as to make one product un-purchasable.

The Radeon VII is absolutely close enough to the 2080 in pure gaming performance to warrant consideration from non-fanboys, and anyone who makes the claim that the 2080 is just so much better than the RVII that it renders the AMD card irrelevant is just a fanboy themselves.
I am actually excited about VII because since 290X I have not had the need to WC and the benefit from Nvidia GPUs and AMDs AIO GPUs was almost 0 going water.
 

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wonder why fcat tests disappeared from the scene.....

For a while Nvidia completely broke it from working on their GPUs. Also I believe it was incompatible with DX12 at least initially.
 

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sudo apt install sl
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100w in oc as a spike it is more than ok, with overclock I mean (I don't get why oc a 1000mhz hbm2 with plenty of bandwidth though).....so...... I don't see any real shame.....pick a 2080 and oc it and you won't be very fall from that numbers.....

110 tjunction at stock? well, seems a bit high, you have a loosen cooler or a terrible thermal pad installation or you play in a oven

A single card is not a line up (otherwise turing cards are faulty and will be a terrible value on used market, all of them, ALL....this is a faulty logic).... nowadays people wc cards just to don't have 15-30 mhz of thermal trottling so, what you complain about?
Because overclocking HBM gives a decent performance increase. With a RTX 2080 I can control the memory voltage. I never touch memory voltage when overclocking my GPU memory so if I did get a RTX 2080 power wouldn't increase but I wouldn't be able to anyway since nVidia isn't allowed to release nVidia drivers for Mojave.

110 tjunction at stock is normal and you can check every review site including gamernexus that shows tjunction. I'm not going to modify the stock cooler since the plan was to always purchase a water block which I'm picking up today. I love the excuses that people come up with. Why should a consumer have to modify the stock cooler of a $700 GPU?

People water cool for many different reasons. I water cool for silence, I have my fans at 600 RPM and the only thing I heard was the coil whine from my Vega 64. Now all I hear is a loud obnoxious fan from the Radeon VII. Who would of thought that their triple fan design would be as loud as their blower? I guess that's what happens when you use Cooler Master as the manufacturer.
 

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Because overclocking HBM gives a decent performance increase. With a RTX 2080 I can control the memory voltage. I never touch memory voltage when overclocking my GPU memory so if I did get a RTX 2080 power wouldn't increase but I wouldn't be able to anyway since nVidia isn't allowed to release nVidia drivers for Mojave.

110 tjunction at stock is normal and you can check every review site including gamernexus that shows tjunction. I'm not going to modify the stock cooler since the plan was to always purchase a water block which I'm picking up today. I love the excuses that people come up with. Why should a consumer have to modify the stock cooler of a $700 GPU?

People water cool for many different reasons. I water cool for silence, I have my fans at 600 RPM and the only thing I heard was the coil whine from my Vega 64. Now all I hear is a loud obnoxious fan from the Radeon VII. Who would of thought that their triple fan design would be as loud as their blower? I guess that's what happens when you use Cooler Master as the manufacturer.
owners thread of VII shows very different tj from card to card, from 90 to 110........... i agree with you though that a 700$ gpu would deserve more love from the manufacturer but we all know why this gpu costs this amount (and turing prices allowed it to be there too) and it is not for the cooler....

If you want power and silence wc is the only way, or are you saying that nvidia has air cooled card that perform silently even at 100% gpu load and maxed out PL without thermal throttling? they are nice at stock, but when you oc I see at least 70% fan to avoid severe throttling and it is anything from silent

Anyway a simple re-paste and tightening the screws do a good job, the issue here is if you void the warranty doing so

cheers

For a while Nvidia completely broke it from working on their GPUs. Also I believe it was incompatible with DX12 at least initially.
yeah but it's got electrolytes and rt fancy effects!
 

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OG AMD
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I feel like PCPer stopped pushing Fcat tests and people forgot about it.

I think AMD started getting better FCAT results than Nvidia. That's when the importance disappeared. ;)
 

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PCper is hardly any more than a shell of its former self with ryan, allyn and ken going to intel; they don't have an office(s) or studio anymore.

but fear not guru3d still uses FCAT and many other sites present the 95th and 99th percentile(s), ~same thing.

though with SLI/Xfire being less and less of a thing . . where any stutter was really exaggerated.
 

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owners thread of VII shows very different tj from card to card, from 90 to 110........... i agree with you though that a 700$ gpu would deserve more love from the manufacturer but we all know why this gpu costs this amount (and turing prices allowed it to be there too) and it is not for the cooler....

If you want power and silence wc is the only way, or are you saying that nvidia has air cooled card that perform silently even at 100% gpu load and maxed out PL without thermal throttling? they are nice at stock, but when you oc I see at least 70% fan to avoid severe throttling and it is anything from silent

Anyway a simple re-paste and tightening the screws do a good job, the issue here is if you void the warranty doing so

cheers



yeah but it's got electrolytes and rt fancy effects!
I am aware of what I was getting myself into before purchasing a Radeon VII. The plan was to purchase a waterblock just like my previous Vega 64 since AMD is unable to make a Cool n Quiet(see what I did there) high end GPU ever since the r9 290x. I am easily able to reach 85C but that requires the fan to run at 3850RPM. I'm not going to play around with the screws and lapping the base of the liquid chamber when I was planning to get a heatsink from the beginning. I do not care for the warranty because I received a trash warranty since i purchased the card directly from AMD(1 year). If I did I would of purchased a XFX card since they honor third party cooling.

Most RTX 2080 cards are in the 36dBA(40dBA for FE or 59.4dBA) range while the stock Radeon VII is 54dBA when gaming and 62dBA at 3850 RPM. When gaming the card usually is around 2950 RPM which is a bit over 75%. The RTX 2080 FE hovers around 70c @ 1850 RPM at stock and frequency drops down from 1965MHz to 1895MHz. While the Radeon VII at stock thermal throttles down to 1670MHz to 1520MHz. I can easily get it back to 1750Mhz(1800Mhz stock) or 1900Mhz(1950) with a 1070mV undervolt sustained the entire time when setting the fan to 3850 RPM which is another reason I bought a block. So compared to a FE the thermal throttling of a Radeon VII is much worse.
 

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MegaTechPC
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"Close enough" would only tip the scale if you are "AMD fanboy".

If you are unbiased, you should choose the 2080.
When presented with two chairs, you sit on the one that is most comfortable for you, not the one that is "just not as good, but almost" just in the name of principle, and sometimes feel a little bit off when sitting, knowing, that you could be so much more comfortable on the chair you should have chosen in the first place.

If the games you play are not tipping the scale to AMD, but play a verity of games, then "close enough" is not good enough.

Simple as that.

Any other choice is based on preferability. You like brand A or brand B. haagen daz or b&j. You like AMD or Nvidia.
If that is a legitimate choice, than the claims of "fanboy" targeted at one brand while reseting it about another, are absolutely stupid.
But those are subjective choices. If you want to be objective, then it is simple. Choose the one that is first place, not second best.
Not everything is about absolute FPS, or did you just ignore all the other points I made in RVII's favor? Price can be a BIG determining factor and as I said, on balance, the RVII's can be had for cheaper than the 2080's. But even if you decide to only look at the few $700 2080's available, then there are other factors at play such as the doubling of the VRAM over the 2080 (and not just twice the memory, but much faster memory as well), the advantage of having the newest available technology (first 7nm gaming GPU, HBM2, etc), and the higher build quality (GN did an in-depth video regarding the high-quality and consequently high-cost mosfets used in the RVII).

Look, I have said multiple times that I personally recommend the 2080 over the RVII to most people that are comparing the two cards, but the point I was making in the above post was that it is asinine to claim the 2080 is just so far and away superior to the RVII in every way that you'd have to be a fanboy to even consider the Radeon card. We are talking about 5 measly percent here, not 25% (or even 15%). Put another way, if the 2080 gets you 100 FPS in your favorite game then the RVII will get you a wholly "catastrophic" 95 FPS on average. There is also the fact that game performance varies from title to title and there are plenty of games that the RVII not only beats the 2080 in but also comes uncomfortably close to the 2080Ti (and vice versa of course; there are games where the RVII is closer to the 2060 than the 2080).

Overall, I personally give the edge to the 2080 as the better gaming card (right now anyway), but make no mistake it is by a very thin margin, and any number of factors outside of pure FPS consideration can easily swing that balance the other way round.
 
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