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Yeah i have a custom loop.... Thanks Fx-9590 I am just thinking praying I pick the board that might get some EKWB Love.
 

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While looking around for folks opinions on vrms I came across this which is not something I can understand but I hope others can help tell us what a 4C10N or ISL95712 are and how they helps us choose a motherboard.
tongue.gif


Tabelle:

primäre VCC
sekundäre VCC
Modell
Controller
echte
Phasen Anzahl
Doppler highside
MOSFET lowside
MOSFET
Controller
echte
Phasen Anzahl
Doppler highside
MOSFET lowside
MOSFET Quelle(n)
ASRock
AB350M-HDV ISL95712 (4+3) 4 - 2x siehe primär 3 - 2x B1
AB350M ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
AB350M Pro4 ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
AB350 Pro4 ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4 ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
X370 Killer SLI IR 4 - SM4337 SM4336 siehe primär 2 - SM4337 SM4336
Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 IR 4 - SM4337 SM4336 siehe primär 2 - SM4337 SM4336 Y1
X370 Taichi IR
Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming IR
ASUS
Prime B350M-A ASP1106GGQW (4+2) 4 - 4C09B 2x 4C06B siehe primär 2 - 2x 4C09B 2x 4C06B B1
Prime B350M-A/CSM ASP1106GGQW (4+2) 4 - 4C09B 2x 4C06B siehe primär 2 - 2x 4C09B 2x 4C06B
Prime 350-Plus ASP1106GGQW (4+2) 4 - 4C09B 2x 4C06B siehe primär 2 - 2x 4C09B 2x 4C06B R1 B1
Prime X370-Pro ASP
ROG Crosshair VI Hero ASP1405I (4+2) 4 4x
CSD 87350
siehe primär 2 2x
CSD 87350
Y1

Copied and pasted some but source is here.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html

Also I sold my main rig so on mobile and as such I'm too lazy to format better, apologies.
 

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I would love to see some info on Titanium VRM's. After cancelling my CH6 pre-order (because given my luck, I would def. get a board that would commit seppuku with my USB stick when flashing to the latest bios), I am trying to figure out whether I want Titanium or Fatal1ty Pro Gaming.
rolleyes.gif


It is sad though, that I had to part with CH6 that was just about to be shipped today =\. Oh well. At least I got my 1800x sitting on my shelf already.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

While looking around for folks opinions on vrms I came across this which is not something I can understand but I hope others can help tell us what a 4C10N or ISL95712 are and how they helps us choose a motherboard.
tongue.gif

Tabelle:

primäre VCC
sekundäre VCC
Modell
Controller
echte
Phasen Anzahl
Doppler highside
MOSFET lowside
MOSFET
Controller
echte
Phasen Anzahl
Doppler highside
MOSFET lowside
MOSFET Quelle(n)
ASRock
AB350M-HDV ISL95712 (4+3) 4 - 2x siehe primär 3 - 2x B1
AB350M ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
AB350M Pro4 ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
AB350 Pro4 ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4 ISL95712 (3+3) 3 3x siehe primär 3 - B1
X370 Killer SLI IR 4 - SM4337 SM4336 siehe primär 2 - SM4337 SM4336
Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 IR 4 - SM4337 SM4336 siehe primär 2 - SM4337 SM4336 Y1
X370 Taichi IR
Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming IR
ASUS
Prime B350M-A ASP1106GGQW (4+2) 4 - 4C09B 2x 4C06B siehe primär 2 - 2x 4C09B 2x 4C06B B1
Prime B350M-A/CSM ASP1106GGQW (4+2) 4 - 4C09B 2x 4C06B siehe primär 2 - 2x 4C09B 2x 4C06B
Prime 350-Plus ASP1106GGQW (4+2) 4 - 4C09B 2x 4C06B siehe primär 2 - 2x 4C09B 2x 4C06B R1 B1
Prime X370-Pro ASP
ROG Crosshair VI Hero ASP1405I (4+2) 4 4x
CSD 87350
siehe primär 2 2x
CSD 87350
Y1
Copied and pasted some but source is here.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html

Also I sold my main rig so on mobile and as such I'm too lazy to format better, apologies.
Thank you!
smile.gif


I can explain it succinctly to you: ISL controller means it generally is not a fully digital VRM (hardwareluxx mentions they do not have SVI2 support).

4C09B or other such numbers are model numbers for the mosfets, you can look up datasheets to draw conclusions on thermal limits and current limits at normal VRM temperatures of 40-60°C.

For example this is the datasheet for the 4C10N:
www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NTMFS4C10N-D.PDF
and this is the 4C06N:
www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NTMFS4C06N-D.PDF

"echte Phasen" = true phases
"Anzahl Doppler " = number of doublers
"primäre VCC" = primary VCC , so the CPU phases
"sekundäre VCC" = secondary VCC , so the SOC phases

Translation of their conclusion:
Quote:
Rating / Speculation:

In the table itself, I would just like to enter correct information, with the timing of their appearances.
For speculation and for the gathering of information is in the course course enough space.

- With ASRock already the same designs can be identified on different boards, IMHO applies with regard to the VRMs:
X370 Taichi = Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming
X370 Killer SLI = Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4
On all these boards, IR controllers (IR3565A and / or IR3565B?) Are located, which can already be recognized by the high-resolution images of geizhals.

X370 Taichi and Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming look very interesting for overclockers, if the IR controller is an IR35201, it could be used in the 6 + 2 mode and provide for the only native six phases on an AM4 board using doubler to be made twelve. The same would then happen with the two phases for the secondary VCC.
The IR35201 is considered a top-class reference (for example, on Z170M OCF) and it is rumored that the ASUS ASP1400BT label (e.g., Maximus IX Apex) is nothing else.

Budget-oriented, the ASUS X370-Pro and ASRock X370 Killer SLI and Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 have the potential for the OC tip, all with probably four doubled phases for the primary VCC and a digital IR controller.

It is interesting how MSI and ASUS are switching two FETs in parallel with both the lowside FET and the highside FET, if the secondary voltage is controlled only over two phases. In the future iGP will probably need a lot of power.
 

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Do you think going Taichi + 1700 and OC is better than a cheaper board and a 1800x OC? I feel when OC they hit right around the same and I'm guessing the 1700 is just a lowered binned 1800x
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karagra View Post

Do you think going Taichi + 1700 and OC is better than a cheaper board and a 1800x OC? I feel when OC they hit right around the same and I'm guessing the 1700 is just a lowered binned 1800x
Techspot used the R7 1700x on a Taichi. http://www.techspot.com/review/1345-amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x/page2.html

also AMD Ryzen 7 1800X @ 4249.01 MHz http://valid.x86.fr/m2amqe , 4199.02 MHz http://valid.x86.fr/u5xhc7

I feel getting the Ryzen 7 1700 with the X370 motherboard that has features you want (i.e. don't buy Asrock B350 boards or the Asrock X370 Killer without USB 3.1 or the cheapo ASUS Prime ATX boards with 4+3 phase) is your best bet

Biggest issues for all the X370 boards by browsing around:
  • Asrock x370 Fatal1ty Professional: 5GB LAN is the biggest difference to Taichi, expensive for that feature difference
  • Asrock X370 Taichi: only 2 USB 3.1 ports , can't find anywhere but Newegg
  • ASUS Crosshair VI Hero: buggy BIOs so far leading to some boards bricking (expected to be fixed or just RMA)
  • Gigabyte X370 gaming 5: unknown PowIRStage amperage , but decent results from reviewers
  • Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7: expensive and nowhere to be found , no real reviews
  • Biostar GT7: Great VRM design with PowIRStages but apparently the BIOS lacks refinement , at MSRP is a bit pricey
  • ASUS Prime X370 Pro: uses NexFETs similar to ASUS CH VI Hero but no rampant reports of bricking, reasonable pricing but no LED debug and OC features & such ( clear CMOS jumper (no button))
  • MSI X370 Xpower: noone knows what is under the heatsinks , price is high given it has no base clock generator (Microcenter has it at $250 USD which is more reasonable... I feel $220 would what this should be priced as per Z170/Z270)
  • MSI X370 Pro Carbon : no one knows what is under the heatsinks , price is not the greatest (this should be analogous to a $140-150 Intel board) , clear CMOS jumper (no button), no debug LED
  • Asrock X370 Fatal1ty Gaming K4 : VRM can get toasty under overclocks (60°C) but nothing ridiculous , would buy only to overclock up to 3.8-3.9GHz , clear CMOS jumper (no button)
  • Asrock Killer SLI (and Killer SLI /AC) : supposedly the same VRM as Fatal1ty K4 ... NO USB 3.1 (USB 3.1 is part of the X370 chipset, how could Asrock omit this?
    mad.gif
    ), audio is ALC892, clear CMOS jumper (no button), and no debug LED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriant View Post

Not sure if it was posted here before, but, per gamernexus (and per MSI) MSI Titanium has a 6+4 phase.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2749-msi-am4-motherboards-x370-xpower-b350-tomahawk

Now, if we can only figure out what components MSI uses =)
Unless it can push 50-60A per phase it will be worse than the Gigabyte X370 boards and definitely worse than Asrock Taichi/Fatal1ty Professional and Asus CH VI Hero. It lacks a base clock generator also : something the ASUS CH VI Hero, Asrock Taichi / Fatal1ty Pro , Gigabyte X370 K7 have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karagra View Post

Also what do you guys think the VRMS on the Aorus K7 will be like?
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128997&ignorebbr=1
same as Gaming 5 but with base clock generator
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickshih View Post

Hi Guys

just saw this article accidentally .

I have no plan to build X370 OC formula for AM4 so far , AMD's binary source code limited lots possibility of overclocking .

But X370 Taichi is good for cpu clocking and 24/7 for sure .

X299 Oc formula will be next target .
Thanks for the confirmation.

Quick question, do you know if there will be an X370 Supercarrier (ex: similar to the Z270 Supercarrier, a flagship board)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickshih View Post

 
X370 Taichi 12+4 phases
VRM controller : IR35201
Driver : IR3598.
Mosfet : Ti87350_40A
Choke : 0.22uH 60A

yes this is 6+2 doubled by IR3598 .
Agree. Seems to be the best of the AMD X370 boards so far, VRM wise. Thanks +Rep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Techspot used the R7 1700x on a Taichi. http://www.techspot.com/review/1345-amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x/page2.html

also AMD Ryzen 7 1800X @ 4249.01 MHz http://valid.x86.fr/m2amqe , 4199.02 MHz http://valid.x86.fr/u5xhc7

I feel getting the Ryzen 7 1700 with the X370 motherboard that has features you want (i.e. don't buy Asrock B350 boards or the Asrock X370 Killer without USB 3.1 or the cheapo ASUS Prime ATX boards with 4+3 phase) is your best bet

Biggest issues for all the X370 boards by browsing around:
  • Asrock x370 Fatal1ty Professional: 5GB LAN is the biggest difference to Taichi, expensive for that feature difference
  • Asrock X370 Taichi: only 2 USB 3.1 ports , can't find anywhere but Newegg
  • ASUS Crosshair VI Hero: buggy BIOs so far leading to some boards bricking (expected to be fixed or just RMA)
  • Gigabyte X370 gaming 5: unknown PowIRStage amperage , but decent results from reviewers
  • Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7: expensive and nowhere to be found , no real reviews
  • Biostar GT7: Great VRM design with PowIRStages but apparently the BIOS lacks refinement , at MSRP is a bit pricey
  • ASUS Prime X370 Pro: uses NexFETs similar to ASUS CH VI Hero but no rampant reports of bricking, reasonable pricing but no LED debug and OC features & such
  • MSI X370 Xpower: noone knows what is under the heatsinks , price is high given it has no base clock generator (Microcenter has it at $250 USD which is more reasonable... I feel $220 would what this should be priced as per Z170/Z270)
  • MSI X370 Pro Carbon : no one knows what is under the heatsinks , price is not the greatest (this should be analogous to a $140-150 Intel board)
  • Asrock X370 Fatal1ty Gaming K4 : VRM can get toasty under overclocks but nothing ridiculous , would buy only to overclock up to 3.8-3.9GHz
  • Asrock Killer SLI (and Killer SLI /AC) : supposedly the same VRM as Fatal1ty K4 ... NO USB 3.1 (USB 3.1 is part of the X370 chipset, how could Asrock omit this?
    mad.gif
    ), audio is ALC892, and no debug LED
Unless it can push 50-60A per phase it will be worse than the Gigabyte X370 boards and definitely worse than Asrock Taichi/Fatal1ty Professional and Asus CH VI Hero. It lacks a base clock generator also : something the ASUS CH VI Hero, Asrock Taichi / Fatal1ty Pro , Gigabyte X370 K7 have.
same as Gaming 5 but with base clock generator
It's looking like the Asrock X370 Taichi is the best value. Base clock generation, best VRM of them probably (I don't think any of the others will beat 12 +4 x 40A TI NextFET Mosfets). Maybe if they ship with a really powerful choke and IR6894/IR6811 DirectFET Mosfet, but otherwise unlikely.

The Asrock x370 Fatal1ty Professional probably has the same 5GB/s Aquantia AQtion LAN as on the Fatal1ty Z270 Professional Gaming i7 and Z270 Supercarrier.

X370 XPower ... perhaps the same 60A IR3555M is my guess - not on the radar right now due to the high price. MSI claims it can take over 250A, but nobody has taken off the heatsinks to photograph one. It's a lot cut down from the Z270 XPower. Lack of Base Clock Generator seals its fate. Maybe they will release an updated revision. On X99, they first released an X99S XPower, then about 6 months after release, an X99A XPower featuring 2x USB 3.1 ports and the OC Socket (MSI calls this a Turbo Socket). If they do, it needs to be a better board overall to justify the price.

If the Gigabyte is the same as the Z270 Gaming K7, then you are looking at 192A for the CPU, and 128A for the rest.


Hmm .... yeah the Asrock Taichi seems like the one to get, unless you need that 5 Gbps LAN, then go with the X370 Fata1ty Professional Gaming. Maybe the Gigabyte, Asus, and Biostar when the BIOS matures. I have my doubts though - the Asrock has better VRM than what I think they will have and no "killer feature" that the Asrocks lack. MSI needs a second revision as discussed and more competitive pricing.
 

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The Gigabyte x370 is better than the z270 counterparts since they advertise PowIRStages, which means IR3550 / IR3553 / IR3556

There's no way they used 6+4 phases of Vishay SiRA12/SiRA18 parts for CPU and SOC , parts that buildzoid supposes is 32A per phase
Quote:
AX370-Gaming 5 features a 6+4 phase power delivery design equipped with 4th gen. IR® digital power controllers and 3rd gen. PowIRstage® ICs featuring Isense technology, which provides more precise current sensing accuracy. This helps evenly distribute the thermal loading between the PowerIRstage® ICs, preventing the overheating of each individual PowerIRstage®, resulting in longer lifespan and better reliability.

http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-GAMING-5-rev-10#sp

edit: from the hardwareluxx listing that linked to another site:



Judging by size it's not an IR3550 (60A) or IR3555 (60A , 6mm x 6mm x 0.9mm PQFN package) or 50A IR3556 (6mm x 6mm x 0.9mm PQFN package) , so it's probably a 40A IR3553 (4mm x 6 mm x 0.9mm PQFN package)

edit 2:
http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/dc-dc-converter/dc-dc-integrated-power-stage/powlrstage-integrated-power-stage/channel.html?channel=5546d4624d6fc3d5014d9fde47ea5bd8#goto_producttable
for more PowIRStages
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Techspot used the R7 1700x on a Taichi. http://www.techspot.com/review/1345-amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x/page2.html

also AMD Ryzen 7 1800X @ 4249.01 MHz http://valid.x86.fr/m2amqe , 4199.02 MHz http://valid.x86.fr/u5xhc7

I feel getting the Ryzen 7 1700 with the X370 motherboard that has features you want (i.e. don't buy Asrock B350 boards or the Asrock X370 Killer without USB 3.1 or the cheapo ASUS Prime ATX boards with 4+3 phase) is your best bet

Biggest issues for all the X370 boards by browsing around:
  • Asrock x370 Fatal1ty Professional: 5GB LAN is the biggest difference to Taichi, expensive for that feature difference
  • Asrock X370 Taichi: only 2 USB 3.1 ports , can't find anywhere but Newegg
  • ASUS Crosshair VI Hero: buggy BIOs so far leading to some boards bricking (expected to be fixed or just RMA)
  • Gigabyte X370 gaming 5: unknown PowIRStage amperage , but decent results from reviewers
  • Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7: expensive and nowhere to be found , no real reviews
  • Biostar GT7: Great VRM design with PowIRStages but apparently the BIOS lacks refinement , at MSRP is a bit pricey
  • ASUS Prime X370 Pro: uses NexFETs similar to ASUS CH VI Hero but no rampant reports of bricking, reasonable pricing but no LED debug and OC features & such ( clear CMOS jumper (no button))
  • MSI X370 Xpower: noone knows what is under the heatsinks , price is high given it has no base clock generator (Microcenter has it at $250 USD which is more reasonable... I feel $220 would what this should be priced as per Z170/Z270)
  • MSI X370 Pro Carbon : no one knows what is under the heatsinks , price is not the greatest (this should be analogous to a $140-150 Intel board) , clear CMOS jumper (no button), no debug LED
  • Asrock X370 Fatal1ty Gaming K4 : VRM can get toasty under overclocks (60°C) but nothing ridiculous , would buy only to overclock up to 3.8-3.9GHz , clear CMOS jumper (no button)
  • Asrock Killer SLI (and Killer SLI /AC) : supposedly the same VRM as Fatal1ty K4 ... NO USB 3.1 (USB 3.1 is part of the X370 chipset, how could Asrock omit this?
    mad.gif
    ), audio is ALC892, clear CMOS jumper (no button), and no debug LED
Great write-up, I agree with your conclusions thus far. I've really found the GT7 a pleasant surprise. The UEFI needs work, but it's easier to fix that than a weak VRM design so I'll take the bad with the good. Definitely right about the MSRP though those of us able to source it from the US got a nice little m.2 (albeit SATA) which I've used for my clean Windows install. It's also handling memory fairly well, so I'm optimistic about further improvements.

Cheers, though. Your posts are a great resource for undecideds looking at boards IMO.
 

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Anyone else impatiently waiting for the X370 Motherboards to come back into stock?
 

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https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128997

Newegg now has the Gigabyte X370 K7 at $210 so that's semi-reasonable : I take back what I said about the K7 being very expensive , it's just packing features other than power phases
tongue.gif


If the PowIRStages are 40A it irks me though , that's a 240A max current output compared to even the midrange ASUS X370 Prime Pro with the same number of CPU phases at 40A per phase

If you value the better overall board quality, LED everywhere (not my thing but some people might love it), SATA express (not that useful), U.2 , OC features such as base clock gen, reset & CMOS button it could be well worth the $40-50 over the $160-170 X370 Prime Pro. The issue Gigabyte will have is presenting the value proposition vs the slightly cut down Taichi which has been $175-185 and $210 MSRP : the main advantage is USB 3.1 but the Taichi has 2 M.2 slots & wifi/bluetooth. The biggest advantage Gigabyte has is the amount of complaints on their X370 boards has been low and reports on X370 boards with respect to memory are generally favorable thus far , so unless you plan on pumping around 250W into your CPU (doesn't look that will happen on water /air , most reviews have it under 200W at the wall at 4GHz) the theoretical 240A (realistically up to 180A) is alright given the IR3553 thermal curve.

That does bring into question the Gigabyte X370 Gaming 5 pricing at $195 though , base clock gen seems the biggest difference between the two since I couldn't see any major differences besides one choke on the right of the board (not the memory phase , probably some auxiliary function) not having the "P" with lightning logo. I expect it will see a price cut by maybe $20 in the next quarter or half year because of this to separate the K7 from it.
 

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Could anybody answer me this question if possible. I plan on doing a lot of overclocking (custom loop) so have been looking at the Taichi. I have USB 3.1 front panel bays and was wondering if this board has internal USB 3.1 headers? If it doesn't can any of you recommend the next best board on terms of vrm configuration that also has 3.1 headers
 

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Is someone taking measures of the VRMs heatshink sizes and fixing points to the motherboard to see if current VRM waterblocks can be used with this motherboards?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyImperial View Post

Well, your speculation on VRM manufacturers is just that...speculation. We really have no idea what parts will go into these boards, and if a 6 phase B350 can spit out 150W safely, you'll see plenty of good OC's. My FX-8350 eats 180W ~1.5V full load, so there's no real NEED for 300W outputs on Ryzen.

I recommend going 6-phase like you want (Gigabyte or something) and immediately swapping out the TIM for some Sarcon or something if you're really worried about thermal load.

Edit: We're not dealing with Bulldozer/Piledriver here. We may find that the Ryzen chips do just fine on heatsinked 6 phase boards.
No hes 1000% correct on the vrms, i have experience wasting a few boards overclocking with the cheaper VRMs.

Vrms have alot to do with how the voltage and power is regulated and delivered to the processor. Cheaper VRMs push less power and deliver the power less accurately.

Think of it like static on an analog tv screen.

If your going to buy a cheap board at least buy a board with heat sinks on the VRMs.

Alot of the times the IC's have a number printed on the chip and you can do some googling to get the specifics if you want to get down to the details.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post

Seems like I guessed right with the Asrock Fatal1ty Pro. Now if only G.Skill would send me my damn RAM!
mad.gif
Edit : Got my brand new RAM replacements but crap UPS delayed my CPU until later today.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post

Edit : Got my brand new RAM replacements but crap UPS delayed my CPU until later today.
at least you are getting both on the same day rather than waiting even longer...
 
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